[shortbread]

Originally Posted by VALLURIS

MG ZS EV is cheaper than Honda City EHV !!!!

Does automobile companies do any market research before coming with such prices or they just go with trend of higher prices for small cars.

Aye, I second that.

The City's pricing now makes EVs look like good value!

[bled_soul]

I am quite intrigued by this car, but also a but worried about its placement. It's definitely a city car, pun intended, as the city mileage seems to be quite close to the highway mileage. Also, the way it functions and switches between different modes, i wouldn't be surprised if it manages to give lesser mileage in a highway drive. Coupled with the fact that it's boot space is ridiculous, it most probably won't be a good highway car anyway as it's highly likely that you'll carry luggage along with you. So to me, it looks like a great city car. But then why not a pure EV? A pure EV is a better and more cost friendly city car. Considering the price premium that this commands, which is well over 5 lakhs, and considering a mileage of 10kmpl for a normal city, you essentially can buy 41k kms worth of fuel. For some this might be quite less but for me, that's almost 3 years worth of mileage, even on my daily city car. Had this been significantly cheaper than an EV, it might have made sense but as a city car, i feel an EV is better. The way I see it is that this is for people who want a sedan, but can't afford or don't have the use case for multiple vehicles, and can make do with a smaller boot (an overhead carriage on a sedan will just be an abomination and thus I feel this is a highly unlikely scenario) and thus it fills a very very niche segment i believe. For anyone with multiple cars, and looking for a cheaper city car, an EV makes more sense.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by amalji

PS: The article interprets Tesla's decisions as a mistake. But, there should be some solid reason why Tesla made those calls and which is not revealed outside ( risks of litigation from current owners of the technology )

I understand why Tesla ditched radar. For self driving cars recognizing the object in front is the most important objective, that is the reason Elon says companies using Lidar are doomed.

This can be explained with an example, as a human if you see a plastic cover blowing onto the road, you know it does not harm your car, you do not reduce speed. But, cars equipped with radar or lidar asks the car to brake as they cannot recognize between an empty plastic cover or a dog. A camera along with AI should be able to recognize it as an empty plastic cover and tells the car not to brake. So, when you use radar or lidar and camera as input for the computer, the radar says brake, camera says proceed, huge confusion for the computer. Also, Tesla beta testing showed that many times the camera is giving correct input to computer than the radar and also matched with user inputs.

When it comes to Honda, the question is did they train their computers enough, can they understand the distance(depth). I think we should not compare with Tesla, they have a large R&D budget for FSD, which also builds very powerful computers. I hope Honda has done enough testing, since this is not a self driving car, a few false positives(or negatives) happen.

[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by ron178

That was the fourth-generation City they tested. During the City hybrid launch Honda projected five stars based on their internal testing, I asked Global NCAP about this, their response was along the lines of "there are likely much poorer performers that are a priority" but they confirmed Honda have not approached them for testing and are wrong to make a claim like this. I would not be surprised to see the newer Hondas score five, even the SaferCarsForAfrica test on a made-in-India Amaze showed performance good enough for five stars (adult) but was marked down for not having double seatbelt reminders. In any case I don't think Honda, VW etc. would settle for a low result, at least for a new model. Not worth the embarrassment.

The smaller Honda Jazz for example barely lost out on five stars because the Indian one doesn't have pretensioners (they help with kneemapping). The newer Hondas get them.

This generation of City has been ASEAN NCAP tested at 5 stars. This was also mentioned by Motor Octane YouTube video of the City Hybrid.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

This generation of City has been ASEAN NCAP tested at 5 stars. This was also mentioned by Motor Octane YouTube video of the City Hybrid.

ASEAN NCAP does not rate cars for India. It covers only ASEAN countries.

There are minor differences in the Indian vs ASEAN-spec Citys that could affect evaluation in ASEAN NCAP. There are already obvious differences like approval of the ISOFIX for i-Size child seats (ASEAN NCAP awards i-Size seating positions), rear seatbelt reminders for Malaysia etc. These differences might just be minor but we never know where they could end.

You should not use results from other NCAPs for Indian cars and it is unfair of Honda to advertise them. In a way it's a kind of cheating and they are asking consumers to trust them. Not only do competitors not have the opportunity to sponsor ASEAN NCAP testing to compete with the City's rating (Slavia, Virtus, Verna etc. are not sold in ASEAN countries), the assessment protocols are also completely different and Honda cannot possibly expect us to trust that the Indian car is the same.

If Honda do not want to sponsor Global NCAP testing they should at least not advertise other ratings. It's very irresponsible and unexpected of a manufacturer like them.

[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by ron178

ASEAN NCAP does not rate cars for India. It covers only ASEAN countries.

There are minor differences in the Indian vs ASEAN-spec Citys that could affect evaluation in ASEAN NCAP. There are already obvious differences like approval of the ISOFIX for i-Size child seats (ASEAN NCAP awards i-Size seating positions), rear seatbelt reminders for Malaysia etc. These differences might just be minor but we never know where they could end.

You should not use results from other NCAPs for Indian cars and it is unfair of Honda to advertise them. In a way it's a kind of cheating and they are asking consumers to trust them. Not only do competitors not have the opportunity to sponsor ASEAN NCAP testing to compete with the City's rating (Slavia, Virtus, Verna etc. are not sold in ASEAN countries), the assessment protocols are also completely different and Honda cannot possibly expect us to trust that the Indian car is the same.

If Honda do not want to sponsor Global NCAP testing they should at least not advertise other ratings. It's very irresponsible and unexpected of a manufacturer like them.

Honda is not advertising it. I mentioned that Motor Octane did a review of the hybrid City in Bangkok and mentioned in their YouTube video that the car is rated 5 stars.

[skarthiksr]

Checked out the car today in the showroom nearby. I was checking the Honda sensing settings and noticed that the touchscreen unit has no integration with Honda sensing. It seems to be same one as the regular city. All sensing settings need to be done only through the instrumentation cluster. Another thing I noticed is that the collision mitigation braking system(CMBS) seems to have only an ON/OFF setting as shown below and has no way to control the sensitivity(High, low, medium) like that of Astor. The SA had no idea about this feature at all when I asked him whether this setting is available elsewhere. This setting is available through the touchscreen unit in international Hondas. I am surprised at this omission since this setting is pretty important for using this feature in Indian driving conditions in my opinion.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by IP_Man

How does it matters to the battery life? Is it something to do with batt. temp?

AFAIK battery is cooled by liquid coolant.

The ambient temperature shoots up if there is inadequate air circulation in the battery compartment and reduces the life of the battery in the long run.

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

When it comes to Honda, the question is did they train their computers enough, can they understand the distance(depth). I think we should not compare with Tesla, they have a large R&D budget for FSD, which also builds very powerful computers. I hope Honda has done enough testing, since this is not a self driving car, a few false positives(or negatives) happen.

I don't think Honda uses their own algorithms. They seem to be using Mobil eye ( an Intel company ) who have other OEMs like BMW as their customers.

Reference link

Quoting the relevant parts from the article.

Mobileye, an Intel Company, is a global leader in the development of computer vision and machine learning, data analysis, localization, and mapping technologies for Advanced Driver Assistance Systems and autonomous driving solutions. Our safety technology is integrated into hundreds of new car models from the world’s major automakers: BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Nissan, Honda, General Motors and more.

If that's the case, they are in good hands. Mobil eye is an Israeli company ( now owned by Intel ) and is a real competitor to Tesla in ADAS tech.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

Honda is not advertising it.

They are. But I don't expect that either NCAP will do anything about it because it's Honda. It's misleading nevertheless.

[Tanmay007]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

When it comes to Honda, the question is did they train their computers enough, can they understand the distance(depth).

Almost all of the top brands do not work on the self driving tech, they simply lack the technical foundation needed to build something as complex in-house.

They license the tech, primarily from Intel’s Mobileye. Mobileye provides the SoC along with the necessary software which includes the computer vision models. It is currently the leading solutions provider for self-drive tech in the world. They even performed real-world tests in India when licensing their ADAS in the XUV700.

You can check out the various stages through which Mobileye has improved their tech over the years in the roadmap image I attached here (Honda City Hybrid Review) which explicitly mentions Honda being a partner.

[car_guy1998]

Had a TD of City Hybrid as suggested by dad a couple of days ago at Green Honda, where I give our 2014 City Diesel for service.

Loved the performance and didn't feel any rubber band effect when compared to regular City CVT. Coming to rear seat space and comfort, its similar as our 4th gen City and can sit 3 comfortably in rear without any hassles.

But, reduced boot space was a huge let down, thanks to the battery, along with pricing. It costs 23.5L OTR, Hyderabad.

We thought of replacing our 2014 City Diesel with City Hybrid in the near future but due to its price, we might have to look elsewhere.

Waiting period quoted by dealer is 3 months and as per the SE, they might get 1-2 vehicles allotted per month and they already got 60 bookings till date.

I was hoping that Honda would be pricing this car at 22L OTR but disappointed us big time.

[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by ron178

They are. But I don't expect that either NCAP will do anything about it because it's Honda. It's misleading nevertheless.
Attachment 2305176

No where in the ad they are advertising as a 5star crash rating. Maybe I mentioned to add the word crash rating

[ron178]

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

No where in the ad they are advertising as a 5star crash rating. Maybe I mentioned to add the word crash rating

You can see ASEAN NCAP's rating plate at the bottom right of the image. Here's the website for a clearer image.

[skarthiksr]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The Hybrid is unchanged at the rear except for the right side seat back which has a vent in it for cooling the battery pack using the cabin air conditioning.

A query on this: So, does this mean that the car has to be always driven only with air conditioning ON? And if yes, is it something that is enforced in the system which will not allow the car to move unless turned on?

[amalji]

Originally Posted by skarthiksr

A query on this: So, does this mean that the car has to be always driven only with air conditioning ON? And if yes, is it something that is enforced in the system which will not allow the car to move unless turned on?

I don't think there's any such hard requirement. But in hot weather, it will help the battery if you do switch on the AC.