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Old 13th July 2022, 10:45   #136
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Default Re: Citroen C3 Review

Sorry to interrupt among need for tachometer discussions. I use a 1.3MJD. From the speed and momentum I know when to change the gear and I can feel whether car is in turbo spool range. I don't see tachometer for changing my gear and don't need a gear change indicator as well. I see only speed needle whether I'm driving in safe speed or not. I'm used to that type of driving. I drive in normal roads not a race course. So for me both tachometer and gear shift indicator are not required.
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Old 13th July 2022, 18:40   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omranga98 View Post

2. Manual IRVM: India is a land of high beam and not having this is just
good luck wearing sunglasses and driving while this shiny new suv with white LEDs blinds you.

5. Adjustable headrests: makes sense if you have a different people of different sizes driving.
In manual IRVMs, the reflective plate points downward towards the rear seat when you flip it to night mode. This work as long as the interior of the car is dark enough. In my XUV700 with white seats, the seats appear on the IRVM instead of the cars behind while driving under street lights or when there are vehicles coming from the opposite side. In such scenarios, it's as good as driving without an IRVM. This problem doesn't exist with auto-IRVMs. C3 doesn't even have manual adjustment! So, pretty much unusable at night!

Having the headrest at the right height and distance is essential to avoid whiplash injury. The shape of the headrest in C3 looks appropriate though unlike those on the rear seats of some cars.

Last edited by impala : 13th July 2022 at 18:42.
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Old 15th July 2022, 08:18   #138
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Originally Posted by skpprabhu View Post
I was at the unveil event in one of their Bangalore dealership on 3rd July and also took a test drive of the turbo petrol. As a brand it looks more promising and commited towards Indian market. Their showroom was good and the staffs was very professional and well equipped.

I personally like the approach what Citroen has taken to focus more on mechanicals rather than features. Features can be added anytime in the product lifecycle and as per their statement the features are included/omitted based on the user survey.

To some extend I feel it to be correct, let me evaluate some features based on my usage.

1. Electrically adjustable ORVM: It is convenient but how many times do I use it, In my current vehicle I use it once in 3 months or 6 months just to make sure the motor is not jammed. Sometimes it is excatly in the same position when the vehicle comes back from a service also. So it is rarely used.
2. Manual IRVM: To my knowledge I have never switched it to night mode and I was able to manage it with its original position only.
3. Rear Wiper/Washer: This is something I often use and in city like Bangalore it is a must as the rains are unexpected. May be rarely used in other places but again this is a standard as other manufacturers also provides it only at top ends.
4. Alloy wheels: Not a great deal, it can be added anytime later.
5. Adjustable headrests: Again a convenient feature, may be mostly used in rear seats and I dont see major usage in the front seats.

So I am fine in compromising these features for a better engine and ride quality. The test drive was good and was inline with this review. I received a call from Citroen yesterday to get feedback on the test drive and they were very open to check if there is any improvements to be made, which is really appreciated.
That attitude will not help improve cars quality in the country when we consider basic features as not mandatory or premium. I do believe Citroen with their history will make a good car but we are also living in 2022 and features are just as important.

1. Auto ORVM: I have it on my car, also my first and I now can't imagine driving anything without it. Such a boon in traffic and even on road trips. Also, they automatically open/close when I unlock/lock my car. The convenience is unmatched. I remember my Dad manually doing this every single time he walks in/out of the car and praying to god they don't scrape when driving in traffic on congested roads.

2. Manual IRVM: Dimming feature itself is critical for safety, especially in India with the high beam fascination. Have the auto dimming just makes that 1 decision obselete.

3. Rear wiper: Any country that has monsoon must have cars with this as default, that's my opinion.

4. Alloy wheels: In terms of manufacturing cost, you will be surprised it's not very far off from steel wheels. It's high time honestly they are made standard on all variants. Sure, keep the design different for higher variants to make them more appealing. They also offer advantages, even if minor, in fuel efficiency and ride comfort.

5. Adjustable headrests: Depends on a lot of factors (height, size of your head, how you sit etc) Just give that damn option and leave it to the consumer on how to use it. No need to act God for something this simple. It honestly just stupid cost cutting, like companies switching off AC & lights in the office while overpaying half their management.
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Old 15th July 2022, 10:45   #139
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The C3's engineering is pretty solid. Amongst the developmental engineers, many of them have joined from Renault, Nissan and Tata with a sound knowledge of what needs to be done to make the vehicle a sound product.

The brand team is led by Vincent Cobee, who had spearheaded the very successful KWID project of Renault - Nissan,(specifically the CMF-A platform).
I completely agree but Your type is in minority, if accessed on mechanicals / engineering Seltos / Creta / Kwid / i20 / Ciaz would never be successful and Polo / Vento / Punto / Fabia / Figo would be leading sales chart,

But driving sales requires a different DNA which you can spot in Hyundai / Kia
As mentioned earlier its an entry level car, market for this has low risk appetite and low self conviction on car type and heavily relies on peer validation. for peer validation you need some initial sales, which is impossible to achieve with existing dealer network.

They should have delivered at-least one successful non entry level car (10-25L, this range will allow them to carter to enthusiasts and people willing to take risk) which would have paved way for entry level car

Duster >> Kwid
Seltos >> Sonet
Hector >> Astor
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Old 15th July 2022, 16:22   #140
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Auto Express UK has reported that an all-electric variant of CitroŽn C3 will be launched in 2023. It is likely to be named 'e-C3' and will be based on the CMP platform from Stellantis. It is expected to have a power figure of 134 bhp and a range of 360 Km from a 50 kWh battery pack.

Let's wait and see the specifications of the e-C3 that's going to be launched in India

Here's a render & the full article:-

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/3...ration-c3-line
Attached Thumbnails
Citroen C3 Review-citroenec3renderwatermark_z267bt.jpg  


Last edited by denny_ace : 15th July 2022 at 16:26.
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Old 15th July 2022, 18:06   #141
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It would be great if Citroen shuts off all the discussions around the missing features, by announcing 2 higher variants!
@omkar -- any chance for this to happen in 2022?
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Old 17th July 2022, 14:54   #142
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Yesterday, in Calcutta, I test drove the C3 Turbo for a long time, in a mix of maddening urban traffic and some open roads.
Being an existing owner of a Nexon Turbo petrol, a Tiago petrol and a first gen G13B Swift I could make a decent subjective assessment of the little Citroen.
Needless to say, my views are entirely my own. Thought of sharing them on the forum, in case it helps anyone.

Engine & Driveability:
For a 3 cylinder direct injection turbo, the unit is rather smooth. On cold start there is a slight hint of vibration percolating through the steering wheel rim, which smoothens out as soon as the temperature gauge touches its second notch.
I do not know the exact specifications, but to me it felt that for the Turbo at least, Citroen must be using a contra-rotating balancer shaft or a dual-mass flywheel to dampen out inherent "unbalanced" nature of any three cylinder unit. I would say this powertrain is up there in terms of refinement with the now forgotten, but brilliant 1.0 litre EcoBoost from Ford which powered their Ecosport.
The indirect injection 1.2 Turbo petrol of Nexon and the same engine in its naturally aspirated version, which powers the Tiago is agricultural in comparison.

The engine is very tractable in the low and mid ranges. Turbo boost starts building up, from what i guessed below 2000rpm, maybe somewhere in the region of 1700-1900 rpm, equating to roughly 24kmph in 3rd gear. The car pulls seamlessly, without any hiccough, velocity building up strongly after 45kmph and you can ride that creamy, torque wave right up to the soft revv limiter, which from the engine note, i guessed it would be somewhere in the region of 5500 - 5800 rpm.
Citroen has calibrated the ECU and the fueling very nicely. There are absolutely no jerks at low to very low engine revolutions. The vehicle gathers momentum effortlessly without any hesitation even when you are lugging the car at low speeds in a high gear.

The gear ratios are well judged and evenly spaced out. The shift action feels very nice and the gearshift lever has a smooth "mechanical" feel with well judged detents ensuring you never experience a "mis-shift".
3rd gear is very flexible. I dropped to as low as 22kmph in 3rd gear, then floored the accelerator and the little Gaul responded smartly, boost building up from 35kmph onwards in one linear flow.
The Tata 1.2 turbo is simply outwitted in this department. The erstwhile Ford Ecoboost 1-litre also loses out to the Citroen's powerplant in the low end tractability stakes.

Suspension, Ride and Handling

As everyone now knows, the C3's suspension setup looks most ordinary on paper. From what i could infer, Citroen has waved its magic wand and used its decades of experience in suspension tuning by doing a stellar job in calibrating the damper rebound control valving. When you hit an undulation the C3 soaks it up like a sponge and then when the wheel is "released" it is done in a very nice and compliant way so that there are no unpleasant thuds and thunks with the lower control arms hitting the bump stops on full "release". From a subjective point, the suspension travel felt greater compared to other competing models. The Citroen has progressive rate coil springs. Add a long travel suspension, tall 65-aspect ratio tyres, finely tuned seat cushioning and nicely calibrated dampers and you have a level of ride comfort which is truly impressive for a car in its segment.
The C3 will remind you of the original Renault Duster's ride when it was launched and if you are an old codger like me , it will remind you of the long gone Peugeot 309's superlative ride comfort.

The steering is nicely calibrated. It has a smooth, self centering action and is commendably weighted. It is not bristling with feel, like say a Tata altroz's steering but the helm has very little slack in the "on-centre" position. What is advantageous is the compact steering wheel diameter and the relatively less number of turns, lock - to - lock, which gives the car an added dimension of agility.

Features, space and comfort
I belong to the Jurassic era of motorists when driving meant straight-forward simple mechanicals residing in a well tuned chassis chained to a manual gearbox - the setup which you can exploit the whole day and have a lot of fun. I always believed that: forget top speed; make an ordinary hatch handle 20% better and you will reach your destination 20% faster. and Citroen has done that i feel.
This car is not for the "Gen Z" digital brigade. It does not have half the things in terms of features, that its Japanese or Korean equivalent has. It will not appeal to a considerable percentage of the car buying populace. But to that minority of us that still love driving and pine for a nice, mechanical connect with the car, the Citroen hits the spot

The seats are excellent. Supportive all around with variable density cushioning it should ensure comfortable motoring for many hours. The combination switches feel good to operate and most buttons, knobs and levers do their job with a rustic yet positive feel.

Yes, I have booked one. Delivery time, as on date, is being quoted at 3 months.
It appears that the PSA EB series, which won the International Engine Of The Year award in 2015, Turbo engines supplies to India are limited. This is because Citroen is importing the Turbo engines from their plant in France and have been allocated a fixed number of turbo engines to import per year into India. The naturally aspirated one's are made by PSA/Stellantis India in Tamil Nadu and supply is not an issue.

Anyways, i am not in a hurry. I am pleased with the fact that in today's world, overrun by digital gizmo's and controlled by clinically accurate "connected systems", someone has made a nice, affordable, comfortable , analogue motor car which is very nice to drive indeed!

And that is exactly what I prefer.
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Old 17th July 2022, 15:35   #143
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Originally Posted by arjab View Post
Yesterday, in Calcutta, I test drove the C3 Turbo for a long time, in a mix of maddening urban traffic and some open roads.
That's an encouraging review and I really look forward to test driving the C3 soon. According to you, how superior the ride quality of C3 is , compared to the Nexon and Tiago?
I am neutral about the missing features, but the one feature that I will really miss, if I end up buying C3, would be the electrically adjustable and foldable ORVM.
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Old 17th July 2022, 23:27   #144
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Originally Posted by venus1975 View Post
That's an encouraging review and I really look forward to test driving the C3 soon. According to you, how superior the ride quality of C3 is , compared to the Nexon and Tiago?
I am neutral about the missing features, but the one feature that I will really miss, if I end up buying C3, would be the electrically adjustable and foldable ORVM.
From a personal point of view, I would say, the C3's ride quality is superior to anything that is on offer in the compact SUV segment. The Nexon, Tiago and Punch are stiff-kneed in comparison lacking the pliancy of the C3's setup.
The Citroen has a very nice fluency in bump absorption, without being wallowy or bouncy. It's a combination, I feel, of the long suspension travel and some very cleverly tuned damper valve rates. The springs are conventional steel, but are progressive rate coils, (similar to the Fiat Uno & Fiat Palio). The 65 aspect ratio tyres also provide an additional, secondary level of bump absorption that makes the overall ride that bit more plush.

Last edited by arjab : 17th July 2022 at 23:29.
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Old 18th July 2022, 10:03   #145
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Yes, I have booked one. Delivery time, as on date, is being quoted at 3 months.
It appears that the PSA EB series, which won the International Engine Of The Year award in 2015, Turbo engines supplies to India are limited. This is because Citroen is importing the Turbo engines from their plant in France and have been allocated a fixed number of turbo engines to import per year into India. The naturally aspirated one's are made by PSA/Stellantis India in Tamil Nadu and supply is not an issue.
Will this keep the Turbo engines at a higher cost? Then I assume the NA version will be priced aggressively and Turbo might be priced on the higher side. According to the leaked prices it is around 8.25-8.50 for Turbo engine, will that price be justified?
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Old 18th July 2022, 10:09   #146
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The seats are excellent. Supportive all around with variable density cushioning it should ensure comfortable motoring for many hours. The combination switches feel good to operate and most buttons, knobs and levers do their job with a rustic yet positive feel.

Yes, I have booked one. Delivery time, as on date, is being quoted at 3 months.
It appears that the PSA EB series, which won the International Engine Of The Year award in 2015, Turbo engines supplies to India are limited. This is because Citroen is importing the Turbo engines from their plant in France and have been allocated a fixed number of turbo engines to import per year into India. The naturally aspirated one's are made by PSA/Stellantis India in Tamil Nadu and supply is not an issue.

Anyways, i am not in a hurry. I am pleased with the fact that in today's world, overrun by digital gizmo's and controlled by clinically accurate "connected systems", someone has made a nice, affordable, comfortable , analogue motor car which is very nice to drive indeed!

And that is exactly what I prefer.
Spot on. Apart from a few missing features like rear wash/wipe the vehicle looks to tick lot of boxes. Price will be the decider. Have seen the vehicle on road in Chennai and looks much better than the Punch. It surely has more space than any of the other hatchbacks and hopefully Citroen will add the features with a AT later.
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Old 18th July 2022, 16:02   #147
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Yesterday, in Calcutta, I test drove the C3 Turbo for a long time
Thanks for the wonderful review.

One query - since you mentioned you own a Nexon as well, would you be able to share your thoughts on space comparison between the two? Especially back seat & boot.
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Old 18th July 2022, 22:33   #148
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Originally Posted by skpprabhu View Post
According to the leaked prices it is around 8.25-8.50 for Turbo engine, will that price be justified?
Approximately Rs 9.5lakhs on road, for the Turbo top end sans one's chosen accessories is a fair enough estimate.
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Old 18th July 2022, 22:53   #149
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Originally Posted by topaz2011 View Post
Thanks for the wonderful review.

One query - since you mentioned you own a Nexon as well, would you be able to share your thoughts on space comparison between the two? Especially back seat & boot.
The Nexon rear seat is wider compared to the C3. Fitting three people at the rear in a Nexon is not an issue. In the C3 it will be a snug fit..

The seating position in the C3, I felt was better, because of the "multiplex" or "theatre" style seating configuration, where the rear seats are placed a bit higher than the front seats. This gives a very nice view to the rear seat passengers, be it the view through the front windscreen or the side windows. This "feeling of airiness" will be appreciated by people who suffer from motion sickness.
The Nexon's seats are "sunken - in" with decent support. Also the Nexon rear seat ambience feels more hemmed in due to the sharply rising window line and the swooping down rear roof line.

The floor height of the Citroen is lower compared to the Nexon. Therefore rear ingress and egress is better.

But the biggest difference at the rear is due to the suspension setup of the respective cars.
Due to its more stiffer setup, rear seat passengers feel more of potholes, ruts, ditches and ridges in the Nexon. A collateral damage of this firm setup is a fair bit of "head-toss" of the rear passengers when going over broken stretches.

The Citroen's rear suspension setup is softer, the ride feels more plush and mature and the body control on the dampers' rebound stroke is very impressive. You are tossed around less and the ride over rutted surfaces do not feel as fidgety & jumpy as the Tata's.
Overall the C3 is better suited for rear passenger comfort.

Boot space is quite close for both the cars. The wider Nexon may have the more commodious boot but the sharply, sloping rear hatch windscreen rake angle often hits the top edge of large suitcases, especially when kept upright.
The C3 has a more upright rear hatch and rear windscreen rake angle. Tall luggage fouls less. The boot is nicely shaped as well with less.intrusive wheel wells & suspension turrets.
Honestly, very little to separate the two cars, in terms of.outright luggage carrying capacity!

Last edited by arjab : 18th July 2022 at 23:17.
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Old 18th July 2022, 23:00   #150
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Originally Posted by Abhisheknott View Post
Have seen the vehicle on road in Chennai and looks much better than the Punch.
Yes. The "wheel track - to - overall vehicle height" ratio is better in the Citroen giving it a squatter stance compared to the Tata.
The Punch looks narrower and sort of "pinched bottom-ed" made worse by those small taillamp clusters at the outermost edges of the tailgate with a vast expanse of tailgate sheet metal in between.
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