[apollo_1999]

Marvellous review as usual samba!!
The biggest let down of the Hyryder/GV is its 1.5 N.A engine and an AT gearbox in the AWD variant. Maruti abandoned its diesel engines and with BS6 phase 2 just around the corner, Toyota/Maruti should have opted or at least have an Option for a turbocharged petrol engine.
None of the Rival in its segment offers an AWD variant in their cars.
A hyryder/GV AWD equipped with a turbo petrol would have been a pure bliss to drive!!

[saurabh041086]

Originally Posted by Cruzn

Overall, I was still pleased with the ride quality but not too happy with the cabin temperature. I have downgraded from G to S variant due to this and will have to do without the sunroof (something my kids were not happy with).

Are they allowing you to change the variant and yet retain the original queue. Dealer here in Noida are acting weird. They expect customers to stick to original booked variant which was booked without knowing the price/test drive. Any change in variant is being considered as fresh booking
Toyota has been able to manage this in the worst possible way.

[GhostRider28]

Nice and balanced perspective, Samba. An autobox with the AWD would have been perfect. The South African market probably has it and it beats my senses why this was not launched in India. A petrol AWD with an auto box would be the perfect Duster replacement for me.

Edit: It would be interesting to seen what Nissan comes out with.

[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by Cruzn

...

Overall, I was still pleased with the ride quality but not too happy with the cabin temperature. I have downgraded from G to S variant due to this and will have to do without the sunroof (something my kids were not happy with).

Is this just me or did anyone else have the same experience with a warm cabin? ...

I am going with G in Neodrive, and not V, due to this afterthought of a cover for the sun roof. It will throw heat and light into the cabin.

Had booked Hybrid, but changed when pricing was released. The difference did not make sense for my expected run.

Apart from this, hope you did check what all you do not get in S variant.

[porsche_guy]

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

I am going with G in Neodrive, and not V, due to this afterthought of a cover for the sun roof. It will throw heat and light into the cabin.

If this is the only reason to go for a lower variant, I would suggest instead to just apply some dark sunfilm on the sunroof which will most likely negate the problem.

[RRU]

Wishing you all a very Happy Diwali!

After having test driven (review link: https://www.team-bhp.com/news/toyota...rs-perspective) the Toyota Urban Cruiser (UC) Hyryder Strong Hybrid with overall exhilarating experience save the higher NVH, compromised middle seat of second row and boot space, I was waiting for a ride of either Maruti’s (MSIL) Grand Vitara (GV) Smart Hybrid (or Toyota’s NeoDrive). This Sunday (Oct. 23, ’22) got a chance to drive the SmartHybrid version of GV – courtesy Varun Nexa, Hebbal, Bangalore. Honestly, with so many reviews and feedback out in the open about the blunted performance of K15C series engine tuned solely for mileage, my expectation was very low from the planned test drive, but just wanted to rule it out and also have a feel of GV as my focus since unveiling of this hybrid in July 2022 has been the Toyota version (love the badge). Just to give the background – started hunting for a replacement of my near 9-year-old Etios petrol 1.5 NA (~50K on odo and can carry on for another 2 years if nothing suits me – no complaints other than NVH) in July 2022 and have test driven Ertiga, XL6, Carens, Seltos, XUV700 and Brezza (all 2022 facelifted/new versions in petrol/hybrid) – extensively and multiple times. Don’t want to get into the details of each but suffice is to say that the MSIL pack with K15C series engine definitely lacked grunt even though it is an extremely refined, reliable and efficient engine and buyer of any of these will not complain. The characteristically different Kia sisters are a fun to drive vehicles – their sales numbers speak that. I wish Kia (and MSIL as well) were smart enough to make the structure of their cars robust enough to earn better NCAP ratings than they actually earned for the Indian versions. No pun intended, but I find myself at my wits end to fathom why would I crave for features that are of secondary importance to a car while giving short shrift to the important aspect – “safety.” XUV700 is an absolute beast when it comes to performance and road presence – the length of the TeamBHP thread is a testimony of its craze and popularity. That being said, while the mStallion 2.0L turbo petrol engine could be a beast, the engineering/mechanics of the vehicle left me wanting during my test drives. Since I am specifically interested in MT (over AT) given my new car will be the last one before being replaced by an appliance-like EV or some AT ICE-hybrid (with no availability of MT) and want to keep my mechanical connect with car while driving even if that means straining my left leg a bit (in Bangalore’s crazy traffic), I really want a car with absolutely no complaints whatsoever on clutch, engine, gearbox, brake, etc. and mileage too – happy to compromise on sunroof and iPhone/ MacBook/iPad kind of features in a car. I found the MT petrol version of XUV700 (in 3 test rides, cumulatively driving over 50 kms) quite compromised with notchy gear lever that vibrates, extremely long, vibrating clutch play and not-so-inspiring brake. The tractability of gear is also not good. Part of the problem could be attributable to the turbo nature of the engine, but I did not feel anything like that when I test drove the Carens 1.4 turbo petrol MT – it was butter smooth. Now futuristic features, such as ADAS, lane assist, ACC and so on are fine, but you need to get your basics right. Nonetheless, moving on to the subject car GV SmartHybrid, with limited hope I drove the car a good 21 kms with a mix of bumpy service and city roads, as well as highway (NH44). Much to my pleasant surprise, the ride was not only comfortable absorbing all potholes, speed breakers with aplomb but also fun. It was nowhere felt underpowered, and I easily cruised up to 110-115 kmph while climbing and driving on the elevated expressway to Bangalore international airport. This was achieved without pushing the vehicle hard – I did not push further as I got a sense that I can easily cross 140 kmph, but that was not the objective. This experience was contrary to what I read so far and actually experienced with XL6, Brezza and Ertiga. Just to make sure I got it right and it was not a magic or talisman, on my return, it tried again, and it did not disappoint on performance. All through this TD, the engine was quiet, no NVH and the ride was extremely sorted. Now, I was not sure if this was just a perception or actually the performance was good. I immediately did another TD of XL6 MT on the same road and in same conditions. This ride was disappointing – on the same stretch XL6 struggled to reach/cross past 80 kmph and NVH level was higher. These are cars of two different segment, but I am comparing just the performance given both have the same k 15C series engine. Why my experience with the performance of GV SmartHybrid (and impliedly Toyota Neodrive as well) is contrary to the consensus here and my other TDs of vehicles with same engine is quite inscrutable to me, but I am not complaining and quite happy with the TD – seriously considering – perhaps Toyota Neodrive – but will do a TD of that version before concluding.

Yesterday (Oct. 25, ’22), got a chance to do TD of the new Kia Seltos 1.5 petrol NA MT and Carens 1.5 diesel MT just to get a sense of how the Carens in 1.5 petrol MT would feel (not strictly comparable other than the engine of Seltos and Carens) given that no TD vehicle of this version is made available by Kia for Carens (really bad on Kia’s part). A brief about the Seltos TD – quite an impressive machine and there was nothing really to not like. Comfortable ride, refined engine with smooth gearbox and clutch, features loaded up to brim in higher variants, new version has standard 6 airbags with other safety features, strong road presence and so on…

Since, GV SmartHybrid/Toyota Neodrive (yet to drive this one) and Kia Seltos are the closest comparable that I drove on the same stretch and under same conditions, here is a brief comparison of ride and performance from a driver’s perspective. Looks, features and other aspects are not covered much.

1) Overall ride quality: Both are good, but GV scores better due to more sorted suspension, lower NVH level and the ability to handle bumpy roads and potholes was superior in GV.

2) Performance: Both are very good and will not give you any reason for complaint in either city or highways, but Seltos has an edge – not because I tested it to higher limits – pushed it to 150 kmph for a while and was pretty planted and there was no nervousness – used this opportunity to test braking – 120 to still – worked as expected. It is just that I feel GV will do better in B2B Bangalore city traffic with smart hybrid technology while Seltos will do better in highways – but combined both, I would give a little higher score to Seltos on performance.

3) Steering feedback, dirver’s position, view and comfort: Again, neither gives any reason to complain. GV’s steering was slightly more responsive though.

4) Mechanicals: Both the SUVs have very tractable gear – on 5th gear both the cars were able to run at a crawling speed of 20 kmph without any problem and pulled easily to higher speed. The gear shifts are butter smooth and clutches were soft – you will not miss AT. I, however, found the Seltos’ better. Braking was acceptable in both. Also, with Seltos having 6 gears, cruising around 120 will likely be more relaxed – I noticed both the SUVs were revving at ~2500 RPM at >100 kmph speed. However, not have the sixth gear in GV is not a biggie - MSIL is smart enough to keep the ratio and range optimized. Even Crysta has just 5 gears in MT.

5) Mileage – As I always do, I set the trip meter to 0 before both the TDs. GV SmartHybrid returned a mileage of 18.5 km/l while Seltos returned 15.9 km/l. GV trip covered 21 kms while Seltos trip was 13 kms. A point worth highlighting here – when I stopped in traffic signal twice during the TDs, the GV MID displayed that engine idling is unavailable. If the 18.5 km/l is without the 12v battery supported engine idling then it is indeed an impressive mileage. If I wanted, I could have easily eked out an additional 2 km/l mileage from both the SUVs but was testing multiple things and mileage was just one criterion.

6) Sore Points: One sore point in GV is the middle seat in second row due to floor hump and rear AC console obstructing the leg room – not sure how to manage this. Besides this, I personally don’t think anything else will be a deal breaker for most of the buyers who are considering this car as a serious option. In Seltos, I did not get time to understand the second row and other aspects of seating, features, but prima facie did not find anything that I would call a deal breaker. Headroom in both the cars was adequate with Seltos’ design making better optimization of space even in sunroof enabled version. Legroom (excluding the rear seat middle passenger) in GV/Toyota is more when compared with Seltos.


In GV – SmartHybrid – I think the MT gives better punch compared to AT as the machine is programmed more for mileage than for performance, thereby upshifting earlier than required and blunting performance. In MT, I noticed the MID was always pointing me to upshift earlier than I usually do based on my experience and driving style. Guessing, in AT – you don’t get that freedom if you are in D mode��. Moving to manual mode or using paddle shifters frequently to supersede the inbuilt programming then defeats the purpose of having an AT.

To conclude – both the SUVs offer great value with styling, comfort and safety. Lower variants in GV/Toyota (Sigma, Delta, E, S) offer better VFM quotient while mid and higher variants of Seltos continue to command edge. With Seltos adding more safety features as standard across variants, its safety rating can only improve from previously 3* while GV/Hyryder is expected to get at least 4*.

Between the strong hybrid/intelligent hybrid and Neodrive/smart hybrid - I would prefer the latter as my annual run will not be more than 10k kms and will trade off better NVH, headroom, boot space and simpler and more refined engine with a little better mileage - say 16 km/l vs 23 km/l. In my case, split between city and highway ride will be 80/20.

Thanks to Varun of Varun NEXA, Hebbal and Ravi of Epitome KIA, Yelahanka – Bangalore, for helping me with all my probing questions and organizing long test rides.


Disclaimer: My reference to and opinion on “performance” of subject car (s) are based on and relative to my experience of driving certain vehicles extensively – Etios 1.5 petrol NA, MSIL Dzire 1.2 petrol NA, Honda City 1.5 petrol NA, MSIL Alto 800, etc., as well as the test drives of aforementioned vehicles done in the recent past. Of course, I was not interested in 0 to 100 kmph in x.xx secs and similar statistics as it would be puerile on my part to look for these in an NA petrol engine.

[smilingakash]

Did a quick test drive at Uttam Toyota Patparganj. They are not allowing a highway test drive yet and the internal roads in the industrial area do not allow for speeds>70. I drove with 5 adults on board.

Coming from Duster (85PS Diesel), NVH on intentional revving was not a concern.
Initial pickup was surprisingly refreshing I hope to find out how well it does on an incline. Car is eager to push even on Eco mode. For your city overtakes, traffic signal dash, the car will bring a smile to your face.
Commanding road presence, good view and suspension. Even rear occupants were happy with the suspension (Intentionally breezed past some undulated pot filled roads).

On the other hand, Rear seat for shorter runs is fine, for longer runs better plan for 4 adults only (at max 4 adults and a child).

Will do a longer test drive when available but initial impression works for my use case. Headroom for rear occupants was manageable. Boot is not a major concern either.
Does anyone have ideas on insurance for Hyryder? Was anyone able to get a quote from outside?

[Cruzn]

Originally Posted by saurabh041086

Are they allowing you to change the variant and yet retain the original queue.

Yes, since it was initially booked only 2 weeks ago, there is no change in the queue. Not sure if this is a Toyota thing, but I had booked with Nandi Toyota and they said they retain this for all customers.

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

I am going with G in Neodrive, and not V, due to this afterthought of a cover for the sun roof. It will throw heat and light into the cabin.

Had booked Hybrid, but changed when pricing was released. The difference did not make sense for my expected run.

Apart from this, hope you did check what all you do not get in S variant.

Yes, just sent the list over to the SA. Turns out, I can do without a lot of the "extra" accessories in G and settle with an S instead.

On that note, something I would like to check with the group here (might be a silly question but here goes anyways):

The S variant comes with a 7 inch infotainment unit and I would like to opt for the 9 inch that comes in the G variant, shouldn't I be only paying for the offset amount? It's not like I get to keep the 7 inch unit, so why pay full price for the 9 inch? Is this something I can even ask for? Or is this how all car makers roll?

Originally Posted by porsche_guy

If this is the only reason to go for a lower variant, I would suggest instead to just apply some dark sunfilm on the sunroof which will most likely negate the problem.

Yes, this is the only reason. I did check on the dark sunfilm but that would defeat the purpose of having a sun roof then as there wouldn't be much of a view. Was really looking forward to owning a car with a sunroof (although hardly ever practical but it helps the kids get some sort of view when they are seated in the back). Quite a shame, they had to make do with a cloth!!

[karan561]

Earlier today took delivery of my Toyota Hyryder Hybrid in the V trim with a Monotone Cafe white shade. A Full Delivery Experience Video is in the making, will share once ready. Until then here are some pics;







Absolutely Factory Fresh, Only 3 Kms on the Odometer



1st Fuel Stop;

[sayakc]

Very comprehensive review, Samba!Normally, I am not one of those in off roading stuff. But I found the the difference of reasoning applying to Jeep and Mahindra quite puzzling.

Originally Posted by Samba

Though the Compass AWD will be the perfect upgrade or replacement of the Duster AWD, we can't be sure of the future of diesel cars in India.

Similarly, though diesel, the ScorpioN 4x4 is a very good alternative too, but unless Mahindra rectifies the DPF issues at high altitude reliability can be a question.

Why doesn't the uncertainity of the future of diesel cars in India not apply to the ScorpioN?

Br,
Sayak

[smilingakash]

Originally Posted by karan561

Earlier today took delivery of my Toyota Hyryder Hybrid in the V trim with a Monotone Cafe white shade. A Full Delivery Experience Video is in the making, will share once ready.

Congratulations and happy mile munching
Did you take insurance from the dealer or from outside?

[Samba]

Another thing I noticed is- The tow hooks are placed in an inconvenient position. If towing is required, both the tow hooks in front and rear will require a smaller sized D-Shackle for the lack of space.

A pic for reference-

Originally Posted by sayakc

Why doesn't the uncertainity of the future of diesel cars in India not apply to the ScorpioN?

Br,
Sayak

It definitely applies. My bad, I have not put it clearly. The DPF issue of the Mahindra diesel is an added disadvantage.

[arjab]

Originally Posted by Samba

Hyryder AWD from a Duster AWD owner's perspective.

Incisive, concise, to the point and most insightful driving impression.

I echo your thoughts on the on the bottom end torque delivery of the Hyryder/Grand Vitara twins.
A week back i had the opportunity to drive one Grand Vitara, with my friend in Chennai, indulged in some mild off roading and had to give healthy throttle inputs to keep the vehicle moving over broken terrain. In reality, the 137Nm, (on paper), torque loses another 10-14Nm due to drivetrain losses. Thus, with 120-125Nm wheel torque pulling a - what - 1.2 ton(??) car the results would be tepid to say the least.

Suzuki / Toyota could have made amends by making the 1st gear very short, like your AWD Duster. This would have masked the torque deficit a great deal.
The Suzuki-Toyota just doesn't have that effortlessness which your Duster has at crawling speeds in 4x4 lock mode.
Yes, the saving grace is the naturally aspirated petrol engine is very smooth and one doesn't have to worry about turbo lag etc.

At high speeds i feel the Duster, particularly, the first lot Duster's, circa 2013, are far superior to the Suzuki-Toyota twins. Yes the Japanese twins have an absorbent ride w.r.t. bump absorption but in rebound control it still lacks finesse.
On a fast left hand sweeper, I hit a mid corner dip followed by a broken patch, and the Grand Vitara got very jittery! There were two of us in the car, no luggage and we were at 70-75kmph. The rear hit the bump stops and as the broken patch was immediately after the dip, the tail became skittish too. Nothing alarming; but it was there.

I have also driven the Scorpio N courtesy of a good friend of mine at M&M. The powertrain and 4wd traction control system calibration is very well done. The crawl ratio too is thoughtfully worked out.
But you need to be very careful with the ScorpioN on serious off roading trails. To my limited observations and whatever mud plodding we did, the departure angle of the ScorpioN is pathetic. In fact it's made worse by the placement of the DEF tank which I'm sure will damage itself, even in mid level off roading, forget hard core off road use.
Also one more thing I noticed.
Our ScorpioN had stock 18inch wheels & tyres and the rear tyres, the inner tyre wall, under full compression in off road use were brushing the rear wheel arch liner on the inside! This should not be the case at all. Any which way you look at it! It's a basic design fault!
Also the ride of the ScorpioN even on smooth highways does'nt feel F-L-A-T and composed like the Duster's. You can always detect some squirming and squiggling.

So, coming back to the question which is haunting Samba: can the Suzuki-Toyota replace his French girlfriend?
At present I don't think so - in totality. So, what can? In that price bracket? Nothing actually.
There are used RR Evoque's available, in Calcutta, around 25odd lakhs but they are too temperamental in the electronics/electrical department for a stress free ownership.
Will the upcoming Jimny be better? It may be in terms of tractability as it'll have a low range box, but in terms of ride comfort, agility, stability and handling, I don't know whether it'll be able to ace the Duster.

There's a saying in Bengali: "Nei Mama'r thheke, kaana Mama" ; (loosely translated "you are better off with a blind uncle, rather than no uncle" )
With the current crop of AWD models south of ₹20lakhs available in this country, this adage couldn't be more true!
That, i guess, sums up the feelings of the "proper" 4wd loving folks like us!

[aveoman19]

Originally Posted by karan561

Earlier today took delivery of my Toyota Hyryder Hybrid in the V trim with a Monotone Cafe white shade. A Full Delivery Experience Video is in the making, will share once ready.

Congratulations on your new ride Karan Saheb Jumping with joy and looking forward to your very comprehensive video on the Hyryder! Might I also add, she does look stunning in the white shade. Wish you many safe and happy miles

[chaudh2s]

Suzuki has launched Strong Hybrid S-Cross in Europe but for this market they have chosen to go ahead with the 4 cylinder K15C motor from Suzuki rather than the 3 cylinder motor from Toyota. Also on offer is the all grip 4x4 system as standard, but on the flip side the gearbox is not e-CVT but the 6 speed AGS system-Robotized manual. Power output from the system is similar with 102bhp from Petrol motor and 60bhp from Electric motor, combined effect 115bhp. Only difference is battery voltage, 140V in Europe and 178V in India.
So, clearly Toyota-Suzuki partnership is very complex with regards to who gets what in which market. For Europe at-least, Suzuki wasn't provided (or they didn't chose to get) the eCVT gearbox mated to 1.5L Toyota engine, so they chose to go ahead with their own 4 cylinder but with AGS gearbox.