[Ravveendrra]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Maybe. Or maybe not. How can you know if this stepping up of the power to the extent of disturbing the balance of the system has not led to any mishaps - be it accidents or reduced engine life? Or even something as little as higher fuel bills? Remember that box makers claim that you will get better FE and more power if you do not change your driving style. What an outrageous thing to say. Because whatever that last phrase means is a mystery and I suspect it is only an escape clause to protect against worsening of the FE that is almost an inevitability. I prefer to do what you do too - if I want high performance, I will get myself a high performance car, to the extent of my abilities to control it in places I intend to drive it. Because I do not know enough about the tuning subject, and people that genuinely do so are not easy to find in the country.
And as someone has pointed out, they are illegal - no one has contradicted that statement thus far. So, the law may be an ***, but is that an excuse to promote breaking it? This of course is the least of the things I worry about in the case against such mods, but cannot just be wished away.
PS to mods - why on earth is the shorter word for a donkey considered profane in this forum?? Policing is fine, but to this extent???!! It is also an acronym for after sales service btw. Let me see what the system does with arse, which is only used in a profane context. I suspect this one will get through.
PPS- it did, you need to switch the words in your profanity bleeping software!

I have a Pete's box in my Diesel car. There has been no appreciable drop in FE. Sometimes the car gives more FE i.e. when I am driving sedately and using the extra torque for better mileage. This is possible as with the box, one can shift up earlier instead of building up the revvs. Most often the FE is slightly lower than before the box - this is because I use the box to really move the car and enjoy some spirited driving. The transmission, suspension and chassis are more than capable of supporting the 15 to 20% extra torque generated by the box. The box does not increase top speed, it only helps the car reach it quicker.

The Pete's box is not illegal. Before ECM/ECU all parameters like fuel quantity, injection timing, valve timing, ignition (for petrol engines) etc. used to be set manually and these could be varied to suit the demands of the owner/driver. This is the old manual tuning. With the electronic engine management systems all this is done by the ECU. If one wants to tune the engine, it has to be done electronically i.e. by a re-map or a fresh ECU/ECM (stand-alone or add-on) or an add on device like the Pete's box which alters only the fuel flow. By re-mapping, adding a racing ECU or fitting a Pete's box we are merely doing electronically what used to be done manually in the old days.

By adding the Pete's box one is not changing the internal capacity (volume) of the engine or the fuel used in it or doing any other illegal modification. My authorised service guys are aware of the Pete's box and acknowledge that it does not damage the car. This of course depends on the relationship you have with the A.S.C.

Cheers,

[kuttapan]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

okay time for the bloody facts.

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

KKK ( pronounced as triple K turbo chargers are used in many european vehicles they are made in germany and are primarily tuned for european conditions were humidity adn temp. are never as high as india.!!) but obviously they are no match for Garret ones.

for low cost Fiat has used lower grade Turbo . KKK can never match Garret Period. ( yes KKK is less costly and lower grade compared to Garret)

You say it's time for bloody facts. Your two statements above don't qualify as facts, unless you show us empirical evidence. I am not saying you are wrong - FAIK, Garret may have a specifically built for India turbo that will run till kingdom comes - I am just asking for facts. Got any?

[kuttapan]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

fiat has definitely not detuned it just for meeting E4[ if that was really the case?? why did they tune the punto for 76ps/197nm for getting E4??] they went for cost saving by using more or less the same components from the punto or 1.3mjd engines already built in inida. to keep a low cost.

Yes, keeping parts common would have been an important consideration. But also spare a thought to the company - FIAT Palio petrol bombed because of it's FE.(A.S.S is a whole different matter). They are serious this time and do not want their cars to be perceived as having less FE(especially as they are heavier than other cars using same engine), so tuned their cars to suit normal car buying public, and gave the enthusiasts a raw deal in the process.

I wish them success, so that, in future at least, they give us the goodies, lock stock and barrel.

[GSRaj]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

okay time for the bloody facts.

i cant disclose my source.
fiat punto engine code - 1.25SJTD ( same for linea too!)

injecor code bosch - 0445110183 ( same code for linea too )
turbo code - 54359880018, 54359880019
oem turbo code is 55202637, 55202638
turbo family is kp35 manufactured under KKK

part number for CR pump bosch grande punto/linea.

0445010080 (0986437023)

Fiat Linea

turbo information

OEM PART NUMBER: 55198317
CODE: 5435-988-0014
TURBO MODEL: KP35
from KKK

KKK ( pronounced as triple K turbo chargers are used in many european vehicles they are made in germany and are primarily tuned for european conditions were humidity adn temp. are never as high as india.!!) but obviously they are no match for Garret ones.

happy Motoring

Guys,

I just found a list of suppliers for Linea made in Turkey i suppose.
The turbo charger is not supplied by kkk! Just wondering what are the cruel intentions of Thomas ?

[Thomas8700]

this is the punto review thread . thats why i mentioned facts bout the turbo.

even a fellow member mentioned that during a Fiat meet he had been told of the same regarding the turbo tuning in Fiat 1.3MJD engine spec cars.

why not any of the owners simply ask Fiat engineer wht the swift is aggressive in the turbo spool and not the Fiat when they go for service.

we can rest this case then.

@ravveendra .
sir a simple question does your car smoke more than usual?
i meant with just stock filter.

and what about the oil?? does it last good enough as before the box.
and sir since you have a nice relationship with service center,the service guys saying that it does not harm the car is really childish!!

they wont say the same when something serious happens for example a premature Fuel injection Pump failure or turbo failure.
the normal guaranteed life time of the pump is 100k miles ( not delphi pumps! they dont come with any warranty!) that is 1.6lakh kms thats why the European guys test it for that long. but thats not the same in india. 1.5lakh kms is the run life for the injector once this figure is reached, injector seals are advised to be replaced and the pump to be calibrated its seen that in most cases with use of tuning boxes the seals get busted by around 50-60k miles. thats around 1lakh kms. replacing seals/calibration is not that costly just 30k -50k rs!! ) and by this time the boxes cant be held responsible for the injector seals or pump to fail. its the age of the vehicle. clever marketing!!

you are most probably not a hard driver. ( spirited driving and hard driving is two different things.)

this illegal or not stuff is not that much in the picture because a mod like this is least visible unlike changing colour of the car etc which should be mentioned in RC book and all.

since you are a good driver things are going good with you probably.
dont expect the clutch to last for long with the box

just my two cents.

[gemithomas]

Dont you think that we are way too much out of topic here. While i enjoy the discussion i think it would really go unnoticed by many if it continues to be unber the GP test drive thread.

[CliffHanger]

I hate the diesel clatter in my punto, the noise is very pronounced at higher rpm(very much indica-ish). Even our non-crdi Endeavor has a better noise insulation. The clutch play is very long and needs some get used to, turning in tight hair pin bends needs a lot of planning..
Where this car scores is - Handling, a sheer delight; drivability - I absolutely love it, it feels like driving a Sedan; refinements at lower rpms(very smooth). Being a frequent highway traveller and after driving the Endeavor, Getz and Punto, I feel Punto definitely deserves applause. I still can't believe how people say that they are able to drive their Getz crdi at over 160kmph in highways, man I feel really really scary, almost impossible for me..

Fiat, with so much noise from the engine protruding into the cabin, how can you call this car a premium hatchback?

P.S: I have driven the punto just a few 100km, I expect the noise to go down after the run-in.. In case, if it doesn't, only GOD can help Fiat..

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

I still can't believe how people say that they are able to drive their Getz crdi at over 160kmph in highways, man I feel really really scary, almost impossible for me..

By the time, the driver manages to glance on speedo after seeing sky due to numerous turbo kicks, the speed would reach beyond 160 kph.. Its all car's fault not the driver.. Damn this korean ****.

[Thomas8700]

@gsraj

atleast google about some info for what the said turbo supplier stands for!!!

its the parent company of KKK better known as 3k or Kuhnle, Kopp & Kausch. i got the serial number from the service manual. its available to Fiat owners provided they have good links in service centers!!
i should not have replied in this thread or to anyone!!

[GSRaj]

@Thomas

Sorry, I was not questioning your credibility here. Since I have booked a Linea E MJD myself, your posts become a little hard to digest at this juncture. But I really would like to know your intentions here. Does Fiat make sub standard engines specially for Indians ? Somebody please help me ..

[Ravveendrra]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

....

@ravveendra .
sir a simple question does your car smoke more than usual?
i meant with just stock filter.

and what about the oil?? does it last good enough as before the box.
and sir since you have a nice relationship with service center,the service guys saying that it does not harm the car is really childish!!

they wont say the same when something serious happens ......

you are most probably not a hard driver. ( spirited driving and hard driving is two different things.)


.......
since you are a good driver things are going good with you probably.
dont expect the clutch to last for long with the box

just my two cents.

In my experience any car that is thrashed or 'driven hard' will never last as long as a car that is driven appropriately. This is why we go over a used car for sale with a fine tooth comb. If all stock cars lasted equally, all we would have to do is check the odo and look for accident damage and suspension faults and leave the engine bay unopened!

My comment about the A.S.C. guys agreeing that no damage will be done is in the context of voiding warranty. If they want to accomodate you (which they will if you have a good relationship and if they know you take car of the car properly) they will not void the warranty. On the other hand if you are at loggerheads with them or if they feel that you have abused rather than used the car, they will void the warranty (whether the car has a tuning box or not).

Thank you for your compliment about my driving. My experience on TBHP has been that good drivers are the rule rather than the exception. Most TBHPians are quite knowledgable about their cars and are enthusiastic about cars and driving. One makes suggestions about modifications keeping this in mind. I for one, would not venture to suggest a Pete's box, upgraded tyres or a performance filter to a person who is chauffeured around or who is a novice to driving / owning a car. Likewise, such mods make no sense to a driver who is happiest pottering around town and occasionally doing a sedate run on the highway.

You do make a valid point about there being a price to pay for the higher torque belted out by the tuning box. There is one immutable truth in this universe - "There is no free lunch". There is always a price to pay, the question is - is the price right or is it too high. The general consensus is that the price is not too high in the case of the Pete's box. To get the same performance from a non-Pete'd car, I would have had to buy a car that is almost twice as expensive as my present car so the Pete's box makes sense to me.

@GSRaj,

Do not worry. Most manufacturers use slightly different engines in different markets. I am sure no one will specifically design, create and manufacture a sub-standard engine just for us Indians. Most engines are de-tuned for India mainly to accomodate the dodgy fuel quality in India. One spin-off of this is greater FE (in many cases) which suits the "Average kya hai?" Indian market very well. Most cars sold in India also come with a 'India Special' suspension and I would not say that this is a bad thing or that the suspension is sub-standard just because it is different from what they use in Europe. My cousin has a Linea MJD and he is very happy with it.

Cheers,

[aadix]

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

My comment about the A.S.C. guys agreeing that no damage will be done is in the context of voiding warranty. If they want to accomodate you (which they will if you have a good relationship and if they know you take car of the car properly) they will not void the warranty. On the other hand if you are at loggerheads with them or if they feel that you have abused rather than used the car, they will void the warranty (whether the car has a tuning box or not).

ravveendrra sir, if the hyd service centre/dealer has told the car's warranty isnt void with the pete's box, then i would suggest you get it in writing from them so that you have no headaches in the future.

was the pete's box picked up from the dealer itself? i was clearly stated many times by them that any kind of mod including a upsize in wheel size will void the warranty.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by kpzen

By the time, the driver manages to glance on speedo after seeing sky due to numerous turbo kicks, the speed would reach beyond 160 kph.. Its all car's fault not the driver.. Damn this korean ****.

..And at 160 kmph, god forbid if anything untoward happens, then "Car has always 'handled' well, its the driver who cold not handle"..almost always..

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar

After GTO's review .. the only reason why I am following this thread is to read the responses of VahanPujari and Sawyer !!

Excellent contributions from both of them !!

@ Sawyer : 412 posts in one month !! Way to go Sir !!

Thank you sir - I am surprised that you have kept track, though the quality comment is more valuable! I guess my contributions will taper down slowly, there is only so much value one person has in him/her to contribute.

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

..And at 160 kmph, god forbid if anything untoward happens, then "Car has always 'handled' well, its the driver who cold not handle"..almost always..

If anything of that sort happens, all that'll be left is ashes.