[mobike008]

Originally Posted by iceman7

Small Clarification - What I meant by the bare bone Cruze LT is the entry level model for the Cruze. I agree that the Cruze LT is nowhere near bare bone. I stand corrected.

Pretty confusing comment there. Base model of Cruze is LT. Top-end is LTZ which comes both in Manual and AT

Originally Posted by kch82

Cons:
- No real "upgrades" besides the engine
- Though the engine is more refined, but it now seems to lack the "rush". I noticed that when I was trying to overtake a Honda City and lost at the last second due to the absence of the burst of power.In short the Cruze looks more calm and stable now.
- The minimum GM could have done was given a colored touch screen multimedia system with blue tooth connectivity to justify some of the price hike.

That's a sad update that you feel nothing much has improved except the engine. After reading the list of equipment for LT ( Base Model), It seems to be they have moved all features of LTZ on to LT thereby making it redundant.

Except Leather seats and Sunroof, there is nothing much to talk about in LTZ for the nearly 2 lakhs additional you pay for it.

Originally Posted by kch82

Bottom line: The new Cruze does not justify the price hike from any angle. It now costs 18.25 L on road - Delhi. Also there are also talks of the Real - New Cruze to be launched next year. The present one just seems to be going through mid life crisis and hence the so called "upgrades".

I partly agree with you. I still feel that LT is tremendous value for money for the amount of features ( exterior, interior and safety equipment) it flaunts. LTZ Manual and AT now seem incredously priced.

Originally Posted by Torquedo

The comparison on the pricing should be between the pricing on the Cruze on the 26th and 27th of July 2012.

You mean 2011. Dont you?

Originally Posted by Torquedo

More to the rationale, the launch pricing in always on the lower side to woo in customers to the showroom to seal the deal and once the product is a HIT they companies usually jack up the prices, look at how Mahindra has been be-fooling people, jacking up prices, phased launch of the XUV 500 across the nation (nation wide bookings have now been opened thanks to the impending Duster launch), smart A$$es they have up there in Mahindra, I must admit !!

I agree on your rationale to some extent. However, Cruze has gone through 2 price revisions since its launch. Once last year when they launched some upgrades to cosmetic features and hiked the price by almost a lakh and now the new engine upgrade made it 1 lakh + more dearer and this is when the sales chart in D1 is on a decline stage for almost all manafacturers.

I think the pricing of LT is decently priced ( Should have been offer at 50K lower) but, LTZ now looks beyond reach for many and when you moved to that price segment people then start looking at cars a segment higher (taking your example of someone should buy a Cruze when considering a Vento)

Originally Posted by Torquedo

The Civics, the Altis, the Laura, the ...., prices on all these vehicles have risen over the years with NO substantial improvements on the mechanical aspect if things, heck with the 166 PS Cruze available for 15L OTR (Gurgaon) who the hell will go for a 88 PS Corolla for the same price.

Civic and Altis stick out like a sore thumb. One with spartan features and other with hatch back power on tap. But, you still have customers for them so manafactuers arent complaining ( maybe civic manafactures arent too happy which is now absolutely at an EOL)

Originally Posted by Torquedo

GTO has initiated a thread on the diminishing value of D1 segment, the reason behind the D1 segment losing out to me is, rising prices with NO substantial gain in either features or an engine upgrade.

I saw that thread but, didnt get the time to respond there. In my view from C-segment onwards the depreciation/diminishing value starts at comparable percentages but, due to price the difference seems enormous in D1 segment.

I would go further and say that as you go higher up segments like E, F or whatever is final segment including luxury/exotic cars. As you go higher up, the diminishing value percentage increases.

Let me take a rough example of cars at an average 4 years ownership period

Accent CRDi
Buy : 7.50 Lakhs
Sell : 4.00 Lakhs
Approx Percentage Fall : 45%
Loss in Cash Value : 3.50 Lakhs

Cruze
Buy : 15 Lakhs
Sell : 8 Lakhs
Approx Percentage Fall : 45%
Loss in Cash Value : 7 Lakhs

Beemer
Buy : 32 Lakhs
Sell : 15 Lakhs
Approx Percentage Fall : 45%
Loss in cash value : 17 Lakhs

As you go upwards the difference in cash lost will keep on increasing....

Originally Posted by Torquedo

There are loads of examples there, the crux of the matter is:
1) The launch price of a vehicle should not be compared to the current pricing.

Why not? I paid 1.20 lakhs less for same car with cosmetic features added in phase 1. I paid almost 3 lakhs less compared to new Cruze. So do i stand to gain or loss in resale market? What do you think?

Originally Posted by Torquedo

4) Who in the right mind would buy the Vento HL TDi @ 12L and ignore the Cruze @ 15L, heck the other day, I read someone comparing the Cruze with the Verna on the D1 segment thread, this just left me in raptures, how on this earth can someone compare the Cruze with the Verna

I disagree. There is distinctly different markets for both these cars. If it was so easy for people to start thinking in that manner then all vento customers would be now cruze customers.

In reality, every car customer eventually buys a car that is usually higher than his "Final Budget". For example a prospective Vento customer has a budget of 10 Lakhs and he is stretching by almost 2.5 Lakhs to buy the vento itself. So do you think he will stretch a further 4 lakhs to buy the base version of Cruze? I dont think so

Originally Posted by Torquedo

6) The 2012 Cruze makes the 2012 A4 look hollow on papers & i'm sure even on the roads the A4 cannot justify the 18L price difference.

Power-wise. Yes. Feel and Brand wise. Cruze cannot be compared to A4. It's in a totally different league.

Originally Posted by Torquedo

All in all the 2012 Cruze LT is sheer VFM Muscle car.

+1. I drive a Cruze from last 2 years. If given a chance, I will buy the same car again. It's so much fun to drive. According to me, for people who cannot afford real muscle cars like Mustang, Camaro or a Dodger. This is a humble alternative

Originally Posted by Torquedo

PS: I still prefer the older Cruze to the new one, just the love the spike once the turbo kicks in, it is a very good time for someone to lookout for HUGE discounts on the older Cruze and enjoy the beast.

+1 again for customers who are on really tight budgets.

[anb]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Pretty confusing comment there. Base model of Cruze is LT. Top-end is LTZ which comes both in Manual and AT

He meant that the base model is equipped with many features and is not a bare bone model anymore.

Originally Posted by mobike008

I partly agree with you. I still feel that LT is tremendous value for money for the amount of features ( exterior, interior and safety equipment) it flaunts. LTZ Manual and AT now seem incredously priced.

I disagree. LTZ has Sunroof, leather interiors,Folding OVRMs, Parking sensor, automatic wipers, auto dimming inner rear view mirror and bluetooth. These features justify the price difference b/w LT and LTZ.

[iceman7]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Pretty confusing comment there. Base model of Cruze is LT. Top-end is LTZ which comes both in Manual and AT

What I meant to say in my initial comment was - the price difference between the Top trim Vento D and the entry trim Cruze (LT). The term bare bone was probably wrongly used

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by Torquedo

1)I got my Swift Vxi for an OTR of 4.8 in Sep 2009, as on date it retails @ 5.45 OTR, what has Maruti done, killed the Swift with ZERO low end torque, where have the numbers changed, from a G13B, 87 BHP to a 84 BHP K12M.

In addition to the rising costs etc points made in your post, there is another thing. Mere numbers obviously do not paint the complete picture.

Taking your example quoted above, probably the low end torque is the only weak point on the Swift- possibly the high speed braking is not up to the mark too. We own both the G13B Swift (back home in Kolkata) while I bought a 2012 VXI in Bangalore. In terms of refinement of engine, interiors and overall build quality (and in addition, the hidden factors like improvement in the overall technology of the engine), the K12 is leagues ahead of the old Swift. The K12 engine is a complete gem, and this is a considered opinion from a fan of the old G13B engine. Driving the two cars back to back, it takes all of a few seconds to notice the improvements if one is observant.

So yes, you are right, increase in prices do reflect to a great extent the improvement in the overall product. How much that increase should be is subjective, so in a Swift I feel the 1 lakh odd increase is acceptable.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by anb

I disagree. LTZ has Sunroof, leather interiors,Folding OVRMs, Parking sensor, automatic wipers, auto dimming inner rear view mirror and bluetooth. These features justify the price difference b/w LT and LTZ.

Sure thats your opinion but, for me it's still not worth the extra INR 210,000.

Except the sunroof ( which is pretty much useless in India) all other features are not that great.

If i was in market to buy a new Cruze I would still buy the LT as its now heavily loaded compared to when it was originally launched.

To give you an example, Leather Seats and Parking Sensor can be fitted in 40K. Auto Dimming and Rain Sensors are just fancy gadgetry and no real implementation on regular basis

Auto Fold Mirror is a good to have feature. Bluetooth is I agree a nice feature.

Finally, I could use the 2+ Lakhs INR to upgrade to more necessary and useful accessories like :-

Leather Seats
Upgrade Tyres
Alloys (if interested)
Parking Sensors
Caska Infotainment
Race Dynamics Box

And, I would still have nearly 50K left over after spending on above. But, then I totally agree with you that not everyone thinks alike

[kch82]

Guys...I am confused. Should I go in for the new Cruze or save a substantial sum of money (1 L plus) and buy the existing version. In any case it has to be an automatic. Though I know I mentioned in my post that new Cruze is not worth the price tag, but I am wondering whether in the long run the new engine will turn out to be a sensible buy.

Also since I have not driven the old Cruze AT for a while I could not do a car-to-car compare on the exact driving difference between the two models.

Will appreciate your advise and valuable inputs. It indeed is difficult buying a good car in India considering the roof touching price and no value of money product. My two requirements in a car/suv are - Diesel and Automatic. And my budget is around the 15L mark. I do not seem to have an options (no Verna for me).

Thanks

[rahul_sinha]

Last year, I was in market for an SUV and I had only one in mind - Scorpio. After TDing it, was thoroughly disappointed and confused. Then ventured into sedan market and Cruze just blew me away.

They said rear head/leg room is very less. Heck, I am at the driver seat and I own the car. Rear passengers(if any), kindly adjust.

They said rear sunroof is not at all VFM. One look at the laughter and smile it gives to my daughter - its priceless.

They said so much power in India is unnecessary. Heck, the surge of adrenalin in an otherwise mundane life is very much necessary.

They said the interiors are not that great. Well, I dont drive looking into interiors.

They said looks do not matter. Honestly, I enjoy the pride of owning the hottest butch and the admiration in the eyes of onlookers.

And, if I am in market now, I will again buy Cruze, albeit the new one, and again LTZ AT.

[kch82]

Well said Rahul.

After my test drive of the new Cruze AT yesterday, I drove the old Cruze AT today to do a car-to-car comparison. I felt that the engine, power and rush or burst of acceleration, which compliments the image of the car, is better felt in the old Cruze. I drove it a for a km and enjoyed the feeling of the horses let loose under the hood. This feeling seemed to be missing in the new Cruze yesterday.

I think I will land up buying the old Cruze, if I get a good deal on it.

I am relatively knew to Team BHP but when ever I have to place facts or knowledge in front of a sales representative, I always tell them that I read it on Team BHP and then they know that I know what I am talking about. Team BHP is the authority and respected at every dealership.

c

[magikrider]

i would like to know if they offer lumbar support in any variant in the new as well as the old cruze. damn that annoying back pain in long journeys!

[kch82]

I don't think the seats are any different. The sales guy did try to convince me that the seats are more bucket like now, but I did not see any difference.
Like I said before before the car is all the same, just the difference in engine to give it a more "family" comfort flavour.

[shivasuma]

Originally Posted by kch82

I don't think the seats are any different. The sales guy did try to convince me that the seats are more bucket like now, but I did not see any difference.
Like I said before before the car is all the same, just the difference in engine to give it a more "family" comfort flavour.

There is a slight change in the headroom. They have managed to tweak the upholstery and wiggle out an inch or so room at the rear and so the headroom is better at the rear. The salesperson mentioned that the thigh support at the rear is better compared to the old one, but I cannot remember how it was in the old one.

[SedatedDrive]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Sure thats your opinion but, for me it's still not worth the extra INR 210,000.

Except the sunroof ( which is pretty much useless in India) all other features are not that great.

It is objective and depends on the buyer's needs. I love my sun roof. I keep the glass pane closed, letting in the sun light which keeps the otherwise dark cabin lively.

Originally Posted by mobike008

If i was in market to buy a new Cruze I would still buy the LT as its now heavily loaded compared to when it was originally launched.

Right now the Cruze in any version is far from VFM. The Laura is the new champ.

Originally Posted by mobike008

To give you an example, Leather Seats and Parking Sensor can be fitted in 40K. Auto Dimming and Rain Sensors are just fancy gadgetry and no real implementation on regular basis.

I personally prefer not to lose the factory fit and finish with regards to seats since I will be keeping my car for 5 years minimum. Auto dimming and rain sensors do play an active role in my daily driving. For example the rain sensors keep the speed of the wipers in sync with the intensity of the rain. You don't really need to think of wipers anymore when driving in rain.

Originally Posted by mobike008

Auto Fold Mirror is a good to have feature. Bluetooth is I agree a nice feature.

Auto fold mirror has saved me a lot of money in side mirror replacement costs. I see a bike guy coming in a small gap behind me at a signal crossing, I fold the mirror to let him through. Otherwise they would try all kinds of antics with their handle bars to get past the mirror.

Originally Posted by mobike008

Finally, I could use the 2+ Lakhs INR to upgrade to more necessary and useful accessories like :-

Leather Seats - Stock in LTZ are durable and factory fit/finish can not be replicated.
Upgrade Tyres - Cost me 25k for my Continentals.
Alloys (if interested) - Love the stock alloys.
Parking Sensors - Comes in the LTZ.
Caska Infotainment - I would rather keep the 6 CD changer!
Race Dynamics Box - Don't see the need in the Cruze and that too in India.

Originally Posted by mobike008

And, I would still have nearly 50K left over after spending on above. But, then I totally agree with you that not everyone thinks alike

IMHO the old LTZ Cruze was the most VFM Cruze.

[_raVan_]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Sure thats your opinion but, for me it's still not worth the extra INR 210,000.

Isnt the difference like 90,000 ex-showroom (around 1.1 to 1.2L OTR) between the new 2012 variants?

[anb]

Originally Posted by _raVan_

Isnt the difference like 90,000 ex-showroom (around 1.1 to 1.2L OTR) between the new 2012 variants?

Yes, the price difference is only Rs. 1,06,875 on road New Delhi.

LT Rs.16,24,420 (On road, New Delhi)
LTZ Rs.17,31,295 (On road New Delhi)


Courtesy :New Car On-Road Price Quote - CarWale

[drchernish]

Originally Posted by anb

Yes, the price difference is only Rs. 1,06,875 on road New Delhi.

LT Rs.16,24,420 (On road, New Delhi)
LTZ Rs.17,31,295 (On road New Delhi)


Courtesy :New Car On-Road Price Quote - CarWale

Then I think LTZ is also not bad when value for money is considered-they have increased just 30k for the new engine plus six speed gearbox.