[Janjua]

Originally Posted by headers

Hi Janjua, A good post by you. However if the above were true, most cant post about most vehicles on the forum as one hardly drives all vehicles for extended periods of time.

Also, the experience of a driver should help one gather enough about a vehicle even if he does not drive one for extended periods of time.

Am hoping THAR comes with a HT and AC to cater to a wider section of enthusiasts.

Hi headers.
My post was only limited to the Thar.
Mahindra Thar is the only vehicle I know off on Team-BHP forum that has been a subject of debate for so long. Most of the people post negative things about it without even having laid their eyes on the vehicle, let alone TD it!
I believe the majority of the members of this forum who have outrightly trashed the Thar would do well to atleast experience it in real life.
I understand that most members are vehemently against the product as of now probably because they are the ones who probably want the Thar to succeed the most and just want improvements made.
I never once implied that only those members should post reviews about new cars, who have had the good fortune of driving them for a reasonable period of time.
I hope you understand my point of view.

Regards.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Sandeep - thanks for your comment. I understand. At first service, please drive after the engine oil and the oil filter are replaced. Just get out of the dealership workshop, drive for 1/2 kilometer and then post your comment. Yes, you read correctly, only 1/2 kilometer.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Will gladly do so Sir and post my experience regarding the same

[Turbanator]

I have only shared what I know to actually happen not only in M&M vehicles but in other vehicles as well

thousands of times to the extent that the car actually tells me one morning to change the oil.

OK - I agree - I do feel the same even with my Japanese & German cars but in the context of thread - Januja feels his car getting more refined at 5 K which is service interval / oil change so it should have been the other way.

have this unique capability of listening to the car when it talks to me

Yes quite possible - I used to feel same way with my Amby but that was 20 Years back, I no longer get any such feelings from my Beemer.

[star_aqua]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

I used to feel same way with my Amby but that was 20 Years back, I no longer get any such feelings from my Beemer.

good to know that a consumer can feel the difference between a non ECM controlled engine and a ECM controlled engine.
its very difficult to feel or talk to a ECM controlled engine/vehicle, say if it is at 0km or 200000km it behaves same. if it doesn't then there is some problem in the engine or the ECM.

[Jaggu]

I was actually wondering the same ^^ unlike old school designs, modern ECU cars have very limited talking to do. Unless there is something wrong.

But on the other hand engines do feel fresh after an oil change and do free up a bit as kms gather. Rest of the vehicle usually goes loooooose

[cpbopanna]

Guys,

I spotted this un-registered (TC) modded Black Thar on Railway Parallel Road, Kumara Park West, Bangalore this afternoon.

The drool quotient of the vehicle is so high , if I had the moolah, I would have bought a Thar and modded it similarly, notwithstanding ALL its flaws!!

THE VEHICLE LOOKS MEAN AND MENACING!!

BTW, the Thar did not have an after-market air-conditioner.
Going by the Temporary Registration, may belong to a Coorg/Chickmagalur coffee planter!!

(My apologies: The internal pictures are not very clear since they were shot through the closed window glasses)

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by cpbopanna

Guys,

I spotted this un-registered (TC) modded Black Thar on Railway Parallel Road, Kumara Park West, Bangalore this afternoon.

The drool quotient of the vehicle is so high , if I had the moolah, I would have bought a Thar and modded it similarly, notwithstanding ALL its flaws!!

THE VEHICLE LOOKS MEAN AND MENACING!!

BTW, the Thar did not have an after-market air-conditioner.
Going by the Temporary Registration, may belong to a Coorg/Chickmagalur coffee planter!!

(My apologies: The internal pictures are not very clear since they were shot through the closed window glasses)

Dear cpbopanna - thanks for posting the photographs. I always wanted my baby to sport a winch, the bighorns and also be black in color. This gives a very satisfying feeling.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[headers]

Originally Posted by star_aqua

its very difficult to feel or talk to a ECM controlled engine/vehicle, say if it is at 0km or 200000km it behaves same. if it doesn't then there is some problem in the engine or the ECM.

LOL, thats why it talks Vijay!!

Originally Posted by Jaggu

But on the other hand engines do feel fresh after an oil change and do free up a bit as kms gather. Rest of the vehicle usually goes loooooose

Placebo effect?

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by headers

Placebo effect?

No Placebo effect, its a known fact that even the best of the best engine does free up after few 1000 kms. It took 10k kms for the DDiS engine in my Swift to free up fully. Noticeable clearly from NVH levels.

Similarly a new lubricant fill does give some difference for the first 1000 kms atleast. Anyone who has pushed the oil fill limits a little would know that also.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

^^ Very interesting topic of conversation, the nature and quality of lubricant has a remarkable effect on the FE, Emission, Performance (Durability in long run), Wear, Drain interval; just to name a few. Worth a topic of discussion in a new thread!

Spike

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

^^ Very interesting topic of conversation, the nature and quality of lubricant has a remarkable effect on the FE, Emission, Performance (Durability in long run), Wear, Drain interval; just to name a few. Worth a topic of discussion in a new thread!

Spike

We already have many topics, including those specific to oils also Anyways am not talking about that. I was referring to the engine with the same brew freeing up after running in. Even factory fresh engines do free up, that is all.

But yes the way they really feel and behave might not really change remarkably in an ECU vehicle, atleast for a common joe. Little more refinement that is all. Another thing that i noticed is the ECU learning/reboot cycle. Does exist in DDiS atleast. For egs: every 3000 kms or so ECU does go through some cycle i guess. Also it does flush out minor error codes also. Last service the AMF sensor was disconnected and engine started, which registered a small error in the system. I purposely kept it like that but withing couple of hundred kms error was erased off (notified by the ecm light behaviour).

Ok let me stop my theories he he he

[Tha'Red]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

^^ Very interesting topic of conversation, the nature and quality of lubricant has a remarkable effect on the FE, Emission, Performance (Durability in long run), Wear, Drain interval; just to name a few. Worth a topic of discussion in a new thread!

Spike

Spike - as a part of your testing in the factory, I presume you would have tested many sources/brands for engine oil. which is the best engine oil in your opinion/recommendation to use, irrespective of cost? If this is not something you can endorse/recommend in public for business reasons, would appreciate a PM on the same. Thanks.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

But yes the way they really feel and behave might not really change remarkably in an ECU vehicle, atleast for a common joe.

Yes, I agree. There are people who can make out this minute difference.

Originally Posted by Tha'Red

If this is not something you can endorse/recommend in public for business reasons, would appreciate a PM on the same. Thanks.

The golden rule is "stick to manufacturers recommendation". Point to be kept in mind is they (read manufacturer) must have done at-least something before releasing a product into the market. That something includes analysis of all the points I mentioned in my previous post.

Spike

[headers]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Y
The golden rule is "stick to manufacturers recommendation". Point to be kept in mind is they (read manufacturer) must have done at-least something before releasing a product into the market. That something includes analysis of all the points I mentioned in my previous post.

Spike

I agree to the above, HOWEVER..

If the above is true, then using all these high funda oils and lubricants IS and WILL REMAIN an eyewash!!!

IMO, Manufacturers try different types/grades of lubricants before finalising / recommending a product as the best suitable. The deciding factors are attributed to quality of the product / cost of the product / delivery - availability of product and service - lub change interval/effect of the lubricant on the parts it lubricates etc etc.

I'm sure the experts out there can clarify better!

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Tha'Red

Spike - as a part of your testing in the factory, I presume you would have tested many sources/brands for engine oil. which is the best engine oil in your opinion/recommendation to use, irrespective of cost? If this is not something you can endorse/recommend in public for business reasons, would appreciate a PM on the same. Thanks.

Adding to what Spike said, either manufacturer recommended or something better. There are lots of cost effective but better spec lubricants in the market. Just head out to diesel engine oil thread and you will get all the relevant info.

The only gripe i have with manufacturer recommended oil is that, most of the time its controlled by the dealership. If manufacturer recommends say 3 brands which match the spec X, Y and Z. Its the dealer who cuts the deal with the local stockist for bulk purchase and then pushes the oil at service. So if Z is the cheapest for dealer, he would push it irrespective of the fact that X and Y might be far superior.

Under normal conditions all the 3 would work, but in India normal conditions are debatable and hence i would prefer going with the best lubricant available out there.

I have personally used many brands and after the research now stick to Mobil Delvac MX.

[AVR]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

The golden rule is "stick to manufacturers recommendation". Point to be kept in mind is they (read manufacturer) must have done at-least something before releasing a product into the market.

Largely true but are manufacturer recommendations only driven by technical tests?
Am quite sure there are business tieups and constraints that may drive these decisions. Also with time enhancements occur in oils etc that may not have been present when the manufacturer tested so helps to explore and figure out if there's something better out there.