[Cyrus43]

Next we shall start comparing the Thar to a second hand Civic or something. Really guys, Grow up.

Lets start talking futures now OK??

1. Fit and Finish
2. Factory Fitted AC

Will keep hardtop option as the Soft top is AC compatible.

Anything else?

Please dont give stupid outlandish things here. Imagine yourself as a manufacturer please.

Also, I wont be giving my Titanium Suspension components, Jacuzzi or the women who come as standard fitment in one. so please Arkaji dont ask!!

[salilpawar1]

Why do people get the impression when we write negative stuff about the Thar that we are bashing it?

When a point is posted once or twice, it is criticism which is acceptable. When the same point is posted repeatedly, it is bashing.

Originally Posted by gthang

What really gets on my nerve is that it took M&M two years of "R&D" to downgrade an existing vehicle (AFAIK Export Thar was launched in 2008) for Indian market, and the whole time kept our hopes up asking for feedback.

I wonder why other international manufacturers do trial runs for lakhs of kilometres in India of their succesful cars before they launch them in India considering that the same cars have proven their worth in other countries. Does this ring a bell?

I never contributed anything to that thread as there were plenty of "Gurus" already asking for relevant things. And what do we get? Thar V1? What are we? Guinea pigs for manufacturers? It is the total lack of respect for the Indian consumer that really really annoys me.

What do you mean by Guinea pigs? Has the car been proven to be an engineering failure like the Indica V1 wherein everything used to fall apart? One man's meat is another man's poison. What is horrendous for you might be a small oversight for somebody else. We at T-BHP keep high standards. This might not be true for all. Both the viewpoints are right in their own respect. To each his own.

Check out the amount of 'likes' the horrendous Dabwali jeeps get on Thar's Facebook page itself. Tastes and priorities differ from person to person.

Other top manufacturers also falter in their initial batches, but their marketing department glamourises it by calling it a "recall" in public interest and all that marketing mumbo-jumbo. And the best part is most of the recalls are made 1-2 years after the car in question is produced / sold.

[greatmana2000]

[quote=DKG;2201530]Its not a given that the Thar was inevitably going to be released in India. Chances are that if not pursued by a few people both within and outside Mahindra the car's local launch may not have happened for a couple of years to come !

Good to know that M&M had done a favour to the indian customer. Hats off to M&M .

Now the car is released in India. It will be available to more cities in the coming months.

Every car goes through this phase of feedback from end users. Its valuable. Its not so easy and cut and dry as mfg dishes something out and the buying public accepts it. Balancing the economics of it all Mahindra have given it their best shot considering its not a given this car may succeed.

I wish Toyota , Volkswagen , mercedes , BMW learned from M&M and Tata . Just release a product and then using the customer improve upon the product and release it as v1,v2,v3 .


Now the questions that need to be asked are:

How many numbers will it do across the country monthly .
The Thar has a lot of potential . But , again it is like a hot woman stuck with an impotent .

What aspects of the car are causing it to sell? Forget the car . Hype and the occasional bout of surrealism might help sales

What applications is the car finding itself in?

M&M seems to have made a vehicle and they dont even know for what application that the THar can be used for ?

Is its success being curtailed because of a major flaw?
The major flaw is trying to kill the chicken before it lays the eggs . M&M need to do a sensible pricing and then expect for numbers .

What tweaks if any need to be carried it out to enhance its sales success? NO need for tweaks . just make the product wholesome . Put in a little more effort and remove the rough patches .

All this will throw light on how it is received by the target audience. Just keep the hype up and fool the targets .


Since it is being offered as a lifestyle vehicle does it have any off roading kits on offer ? any customisation kits ? Any specialist contact to give proper info on the product on all aspects ?

[greatmana2000]

Originally Posted by Xinger

Why are you ignoring how big a factor economy of scale is?

Dec 2010 sales figures:

Swift - 11600

Gypsy - 264

A profit of 10000 bucks on each swift translates to 11,600x10,000= Rs 11,60,00,000 (11 and a half crores)

A profit of 10000 bucks on each Gypsy translates to 264x10,000=Rs 26,40,000 (26 and a half lakhs)

NOW ADD all the discounts they would get from vendors for giving them such huge orders for Swift parts.
Your replies are comical .. to design the swift Suzuki would have spent millions . To design the gypsy the cost would have been negligible . Same thing with the THar . The developement would have cost peanuts . So initial cost of investment is almost none in the case of THar . Hope you realise that

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

Next we shall start comparing the Thar to a second hand Civic or something. Really guys, Grow up.

Lets start talking futures now OK??

1. Fit and Finish
2. Factory Fitted AC

Will keep hardtop option as the Soft top is AC compatible.

Anything else?

Please dont give stupid outlandish things here. Imagine yourself as a manufacturer please.

Also, I wont be giving my Titanium Suspension components, Jacuzzi or the women who come as standard fitment in one. so please Arkaji dont ask!!

So Cyrus are you saying that we would get a factory fitted AC? A hard top and that too a removable one would be a good option.

Also regarding the modification bit.Since the jeep is being shipped from near Mumbai itself wouldn't it be better to get the jeep shipped directly to the modifier, once the choices have been made, instead of it first getting shipped to north india and then back to mumbai and then back to north india.

Another thing i would like is the removal of the Carpet and the flooring being like that embossed steel design.Would look good and be easy to clean.

Also is this jeep water proof.I mean if we drive it without the top in rain will the electricals be safe?

[prince_pervez]

Guys, Guys, the best representation of how the Thar will fair on the sales charts are the sales charts itself. Lets wait and see for ourselves in the upcoming Jan and Feb sales. IMO it will sell well initially and then remain in the constant. But one thing is for sure it is not a M&M flagship. So even if it sees little movement thats fine for them as it caters to a certiain segment not the masses. I will not be surprised if M&M decide to put a LIMITED sticker on the Thar and limit its life. Then what will we do ? Start looking for army dumpsters again ?
This attempt was to revive a dream for most. Let them enjoy.

[greatmana2000]

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

When a point is posted once or twice, it is criticism which is acceptable. When the same point is posted repeatedly, it is bashing.



I wonder why other international manufacturers do trial runs for lakhs of kilometres in India of their succesful cars before they launch them in India considering that the same cars have proven their worth in other countries. Does this ring a bell?
Why do people wear sweaters in colder places and why dont people wear sweaters in warmer places ? Hope you found the answer now .


What do you mean by Guinea pigs? Has the car been proven to be an engineering failure like the Indica V1 wherein everything used to fall apart? One man's meat is another man's poison. What is horrendous for you might be a small oversight for somebody else. We at T-BHP keep high standards. This might not be true for all. Both the viewpoints are right in their own respect. To each his own.

Obviously as the Thar was launched after consultations with the "end customers" . unfortunately they just interviewed only a few sections of the society it seems .

Check out the amount of 'likes' the horrendous Dabwali jeeps get on Thar's Facebook page itself. Tastes and priorities differ from person to person.

It is like adoring shakeela the actress . You never know until you get close . hmmz

Other top manufacturers also falter in their initial batches, but their marketing department glamourises it by calling it a "recall" in public interest and all that marketing mumbo-jumbo. And the best part is most of the recalls are made 1-2 years after the car in question is produced / sold.

Now does M&M offer warranty even if the card is used for offroading ? I just want to know what is their take

[salilpawar1]

Why do people wear sweaters in colder places and why dont people wear sweaters in warmer places ? Hope you found the answer now .

And that is exactly why the South African spec Thar was not sold in India as it is. But it was rather tested in India over a period of time although I agree that the delay in launch was a bit too much.

Obviously as the Thar was launched after consultations with the "end customers" . unfortunately they just interviewed only a few sections of the society it seems .

Unfortunately, not many "end customers" asked for good interiors, it seems. LOL. Atleast it was not the topmost priority. LOL. By the way, check out the wishlist thread and search for "interiors", "paint", "dashboard" etc. and see how many results you get. Probably, the customers presumed that Mahindra will provide them good quality interiors like they have always done in the past. Haha.

It is like adoring shakeela the actress . You never know until you get close . hmmz

Beautiful explanation. Now I am convinced!

I think I have made my viewpoint clear. I am out of this thread now.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

Lets start talking futures now OK??

1. Fit and Finish
2. Factory Fitted AC

Will keep hardtop option as the Soft top is AC compatible.

Cyrus am really sorry but i really dont feel like participating anymore in wish lists. I feel very let down as a customer after nearly 2 years of talk inside and outside the forum

But yes an elegant hard top and AC at reasonable price would mean alot to a potential customer, especially if the new version takes care of quality. No fancy bits required and Arka or me are not the potential customers.

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

When a point is posted once or twice, it is criticism which is acceptable. When the same point is posted repeatedly, it is bashing.

Same thing happens with praising and giving some aspects a blind eye, which is called fanboism.

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

I wonder why other international manufacturers do trial runs for lakhs of kilometres in India of their succesful cars before they launch them in India considering that the same cars have proven their worth in other countries. Does this ring a bell

You are comparing a product designed and developed in India Vs designed and developed elsewhere being testing for Indian conditions. More over the vehicle for which input was taken through TBHP etc has not changed much from day 1, though many of us were hoping it would.

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

We at T-BHP keep high standards.

And it is this high standards that makes us unique, makes manufacturers take a look at what we say. Its our core value and we should never lose it.

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

Check out the amount of 'likes' the horrendous Dabwali jeeps get on Thar's Facebook page itself. Tastes and priorities differ from person to person.

''

For heavens sake please dont compare FB crowd with TBHP. Why do you think we all work towards keeping certain standards in TBHP.

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

Other top manufacturers also falter in their initial batches, but their marketing department glamourises it by calling it a "recall" in public interest and all that marketing mumbo-jumbo. And the best part is most of the recalls are made 1-2 years after the car in question is produced / sold.

Do you think M&M will even do a recall. I wouldnt be even surprised if M&M brings out a V2 silently into the market and leave the early adopter to their fate. Let me make it clear, even other Indian manufacturers has done it, time and again.

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Also is this jeep water proof.I mean if we drive it without the top in rain will the electricals be safe?

More than any other part, work out a plan to do something about ECM if water fording is in the plan.

Originally Posted by prince_pervez

Guys, Guys, the best representation of how the Thar will fair on the sales charts are the sales charts itself. Lets wait and see for ourselves in the upcoming Jan and Feb sales. IMO it will sell well initially and then remain in the constant.

I personally want Thar to be a decent success atleast and it would really hurt to see single or double digit sales figures for Crde version after couple of months.

Originally Posted by greatmana2000

Now does M&M offer warranty even if the card is used for offroading ? I just want to know what is their take

Obvious answer is NO. No manufacturer will, even if the vehicle is marketed as an offroader. If the part failed due to normal stress yes, but under extreme stress or impacts, warranty will be denied for sure. How will they make out, that is a different story altogether.

[Xinger]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

we all can understand what you are trying to convey with the theory. But dear xinger i dont think either me or you are qualified enough to get into the details for any of these models with couple of posts and justify the theory. There are so many other parameters and factors.

I did not start the comparision vis a vis thar and hatchback! Merely trying to take the argument up on its own logic. And I am not discussing supply chains, etc. just trying to put things in layman's terms. And broadly, they are correct. 'Economies of scale' is not a unproven 'theory'! If Maruti thought 4x4 offroaders were a huge market, they would not give stepmotherly treatment to the Gypsy! And they would have brought in the Jimny's of the world a long time ago! So would have other manufacturers!

Anyway, you have your entrenched position, I have mine. You will not buy the Thar. Neither will I (at least not in near future). The argument basically is, you think Thar is overpriced, and more thought should have been given to fit and finish.

I think, all factors considered, it is not overpriced. And M&M had to take a call on price point vs fit & finish, and they took that call. Were they right? Time will tell.

I rest my case.

[star_aqua]

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

Unfortunately, not many "end customers" asked for good interiors, it seems. LOL. Atleast it was not the topmost priority. LOL. By the way, check out the wishlist thread and search for "interiors", "paint", "dashboard" etc. and see how many results you get. Probably, the customers presumed that Mahindra will provide them good quality interiors like they have always done in the past. Haha.

In any domain, there is something called as implicit requirements. customer need not mention some requirements explicitly.

[gthang]

Originally Posted by salilpawar1

What do you mean by Guinea pigs? Has the car been proven to be an engineering failure like the Indica V1 wherein everything used to fall apart?

http://www.team-bhp.com/carpics/mahi...ah-thar-17.jpg
http://www.team-bhp.com/carpics/mahi...ah-thar-14.jpg
http://www.team-bhp.com/carpics/mahi...ah-thar-15.jpg

A picture says a thousand words?

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Xinger

I think, all factors considered, it is not overpriced. And M&M had to take a call on price point vs fit & finish, and they took that call. Were they right? Time will tell.

I rest my case.

Like wise I feel Thar is an overpriced product especially with those cheap interiors. Only time will tell.

Only difference is i would love to fight the case, if it will help improve Thar and give it a slightly longer shelf life in our very conservative indian market.

I dont think any manufacturer is bold enough to take a plunge and introduce a so called niche product like Thar, like M&M did.

Reason why Jimny is still a dream.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

Just a question. If the Thar had a HArd Top(optional) but a factory fitted AC, would you guys have bought it despite the interior fit and finish?

I guess if Thar had a hard top there would be much less light inside the cabin and therefore people would not notice the poor fit and finish.

[prince_pervez]

Originally Posted by Mpower

I guess if Thar had a hard top there would be much less light inside the cabin and therefore people would not notice the poor fit and finish.

Wahahahhahaahha. Come on man!