[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Sudarshan JEE,

What comparison do you want to do with a stock vehicle?
i) Road-Abilities
ii) Off-Road Abilities
iii) Bolt-On Modifications/Upgrades.

In addition to what you have suggested
1) FE & range
2) gradability both on & off road
3) Suitability for 2 man team Leh expeditions or like that .( high altitude etc)
4) Trailer towing
5) NVH
6) power to weight ratio .
7) type of Fuel
8) Payload capacities
the vehicle you are comparing Thar with, be of similar dimensions & CC atleast

A direct 4" Lift of What?
Will the Front Steering and Suspension support the weight & dimensions of 9.00X16 ?

4" more Distane from ground to chassis rail bottom( at midway- between front & rear wheels )
strengthning of parts will be required where needed

By "hard way" do you mean your own custom axles and suspension?

for Axles not exactly ,but for suspension ,sure

I tried to compare Thar to 90" defender( not the latest but 2.5 older versions ) it comes quit close ( surprisingly ) yet has an advantage of warrenty ( Illusive ) & good support for spares ( & help from DB sir & Spike team too)

Sudarshan ( less JEE )

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by speedy

Sir, please add a Bullbar and a winch to them with the stock setup and you will watch them tip forward too.

Sir the Sole aim of the car is not Offroading alone. As far as "who would want to modify a brand new 7l vehicle, YOU are reading his post.

WHat are the Modifications you suggest i should do to make it beat the Ghost out of anything, a list please.

Sir,

I agree with your comments on adding a Bull-Bar and winch on any other IFS Vehicles.

But the Thar/Scorpio 4WD tips forward without the winch; aggravates the tipping forward.

For Toyota/Mitsubishi and Ford Endy Suspension Lift Kits are available from ARB Old Man Emu. (Torsion Bar/Bushes/Upper/Lower Arms/ Coil Springs/Shackles and Shock Absorbers).

The single "mod" which opens up the possibility of all other mods is a Solid Axle.

I prefer this from the Factory.

Regards,

Arka

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

In addition to what you have suggested
1) FE & range
2) gradability both on & off road
3) Suitability for 2 man team Leh expeditions or like that .(high altitude etc)
4) Trailer towing
5) NVH
6) power to weight ratio .
7) type of Fuel
8) Payload capacities
the vehicle you are comparing Thar with, be of similar dimensions & CC atleast

I tried to compare Thar to 90" defender( not the latest but 2.5 older versions ) it comes quit close ( surprisingly ) yet has an advantage of warrenty ( Illusive ) & good support for spares ( & help from DB sir & Spike team too)

Hi Sudarshan JEE,

Thar CRDe vs Gypsy MPFI vs Thar MDI vs JUGAAD (ex M&M mix 'n' match).

Once you include the modification factor, the Thar will be left far behind.

The DEFENDER or older NINETY is
1) Solid Axle Coil Spring
2) FFRA Coil Spring

Modify-ability = There are enough after market parts to do what you want.

Regards,

Arka

[xtreme power]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

I tried to compare Thar to 90" defender( not the latest but 2.5 older versions ) it comes quit close ( surprisingly ) yet has an advantage of warrenty ( Illusive ) & good support for spares ( & help from DB sir & Spike team too)

Sudarshan ( less JEE )

im sorry,
but this i had to laugh at

[greatmana2000]

Now , before we go into further discussions can someone please confirm if the Thar is a "car" or a "jeep" ?

I am getting confused .

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Once you include the modification factor, the Thar will be left far behind.

It will still come close
But then again we need the Thar to be moded to compare against the what ever moded vehicle

The DEFENDER or older NINETY is
1) Solid Axle Coil Spring
2) FFRA Coil Spring

Yes , thats the point . Thats why I am surprised too . The Thar havig leafs behind & front torsion bar IFS , feels very close to the defender ride when one compares both.

@ Allan , Dont take my comments seriously ,I dont have your exposure do I ? I hope you must have driven the Thar , please give some honest comment & yes I compared Thar with defender which was stock & I have few memories of that ride ( I am not comparing Thar with 'that V8 ' )
BTW what exactly made you laugh ?

Sudarshan ( less JEE )

[speedy]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Sir,

I agree with your comments on adding a Bull-Bar and winch on any other IFS Vehicles.

But the Thar/Scorpio 4WD tips forward without the winch; aggravates the tipping forward.

Sir,

I did not notice any tipping forward in the Thar that was used for the test. It was noticed on the Adventure variant that carried the winch and bullbar.

Originally Posted by ex670c

For Toyota/Mitsubishi and Ford Endy Suspension Lift Kits are available from ARB Old Man Emu. (Torsion Bar/Bushes/Upper/Lower Arms/ Coil Springs/Shackles and Shock Absorbers).

These i am aware off, There are many more companies that make these bolt ons for various cars. I was talking in relation to the Thar.

Originally Posted by ex670c

The single "mod" which opens up the possibility of all other mods is a Solid Axle.

I prefer this from the Factory.

Sir, is this the only answer you have?. So what your trying to say here is only if the Thar had solid axles would it be able to offroad or moddified.

I am sure with your experience and knowledge you would be able to Turn the THAR IFS into an offroaders dream. Lets say there is no worry about the costs, only catch is it has to be on what the company gives. That is with the IFS setup.

[eagle888]

WOW...Brilliant Review

I can speak from experience on this one. I own the 1st Thar bought in KZN , South Africa
I belong to the KZN Branch of the South African 4x4 CLUB and we have been on some real tough and testing outings.
I can say with boldness, that my THAR 4x4 did not faulter, it followed and in some cases lead the way .
One my Facebook group ' SA 4X4 FUN' I show its ability in the snow at about 3000 meters above sea level. With the plain road tyres I climed some serious inclines. The one incline found myself in my Mahindra Thar, a wrangler at the top. A hilux 4x4 battled to get up there and a Fortuner stayed at the bottom...could not , no matter how much he tried...could not get up to where we were.
Regarding the finishes on interior....rough but hey...no problem...this is a off-road beast and I have proved that! I am not concerned with the CITY SLICKER trimmings...please.
My only concern here in SA , was the fact I had to purchase the 'Cargo Cover' over and above the price of the vehicle. I thought all was well until rain arrived...what a joke...leaked like crazy. When I drove it flapped dangerously and made so much noise it hurt my ears. On one occassion a steel bar installed by the softop installer, came loose and hit me on the back of the head whilst I was driving. NO JOKE.I thought this was a tried and tested soft-top...no way. I paid R6000 for the cover, which I was later told was just for transporting from India to SA...or for basic cargo covering!!!! I then was encouraged to go for the locally made HARDTOP...paid R12000 for that. The Hard-top is great...well made by Puma Canopies...BUT the fools who fitted it...shooo...they drilled flipping 8mm diameter holes through my body!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...i am mad about this...honestly!! They left the shavings everywhere...left the burr slicking up,,,super sharp!! ...I have kids and overseas guest who travel often on short Safari's.
To add to this...now that the HARD-TOP is installed....I can no longer ever use the basic Cargo cover!!! as all the rope guides etc were removed so that the hard top could fit.

Please don't get me wrong here...This is not MAHINDRA..in my opinion....This is a sales thing ...
I have questions
1) Why was I sold a cargo cover at a ridiculios price??? I see such nice soft-tops on the MM50's in India
2) Why were the proper soft-tops , ones that work, not sent with the Vehicles?

Despite these small issues, I still say the MAHINDRA THAR 4X4 is the greatest

BEST BUY

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

Hell YA ,HUGE , Its gona beat the Ghost out of us if we try & modify it to whatever level we want .This can be a hell of a Vehicle if you can do .

In other words , Its a CHALLENGE for a modifier BUT will pay greatly if he/she succeeds

Originally Posted by speedy

Sir, is this the only answer you have?. So what your trying to say here is only if the Thar had solid axles would it be able to offroad or moddified.

I am sure with your experience and knowledge you would be able to Turn the THAR IFS into an offroaders dream. Lets say there is no worry about the costs, only catch is it has to be on what the company gives. That is with the IFS setup.

I would like to know Allans comment on this .

What do you want say Allan ?

Sudarshan
( forgive me O lords ,I am just a cook )

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by speedy

Sir, is this the only answer you have?. So what your trying to say here is only if the Thar had solid axles would it be able to offroad or moddified.

I am sure with your experience and knowledge you would be able to Turn the THAR IFS into an offroaders dream. Lets say there is no worry about the costs, only catch is it has to be on what the company gives. That is with the IFS setup.

Sir,

I have no experience modifying an IFS vehicle for Off-Road.

Regards,

Arka

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by eagle888

WOW...Brilliant Review

I can speak from experience on this one. I own the 1st Thar bought in KZN , South Africa
I belong to the KZN Branch of the South African 4x4 CLUB and we have been on some real tough and testing outings.
I can say with boldness, that my THAR 4x4 did not faulter, it followed and in some cases lead the way .
One my Facebook group ' SA 4X4 FUN' I show its ability in the snow at about 3000 meters above sea level. With the plain road tyres I climed some serious inclines. The one incline found myself in my Mahindra Thar, a wrangler at the top. A hilux 4x4 battled to get up there and a Fortuner stayed at the bottom...could not , no matter how much he tried...could not get up to where we were.
Regarding the finishes on interior....rough but hey...no problem...this is a off-road beast and I have proved that! I am not concerned with the CITY SLICKER trimmings...please.
My only concern here in SA , was the fact I had to purchase the 'Cargo Cover' over and above the price of the vehicle. I thought all was well until rain arrived...what a joke...leaked like crazy. When I drove it flapped dangerously and made so much noise it hurt my ears. On one occassion a steel bar installed by the softop installer, came loose and hit me on the back of the head whilst I was driving. NO JOKE.I thought this was a tried and tested soft-top...no way. I paid R6000 for the cover, which I was later told was just for transporting from India to SA...or for basic cargo covering!!!! I then was encouraged to go for the locally made HARDTOP...paid R12000 for that. The Hard-top is great...well made by Puma Canopies...BUT the fools who fitted it...shooo...they drilled flipping 8mm diameter holes through my body!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...i am mad about this...honestly!! They left the shavings everywhere...left the burr slicking up,,,super sharp!! ...I have kids and overseas guest who travel often on short Safari's.
To add to this...now that the HARD-TOP is installed....I can no longer ever use the basic Cargo cover!!! as all the rope guides etc were removed so that the hard top could fit.

Please don't get me wrong here...This is not MAHINDRA..in my opinion....This is a sales thing ...
I have questions
1) Why was I sold a cargo cover at a ridiculios price??? I see such nice soft-tops on the MM50's in India
2) Why were the proper soft-tops , ones that work, not sent with the Vehicles?

Despite these small issues, I still say the MAHINDRA THAR 4X4 is the greatest

BEST BUY

Thanks for the insight mate, great to hear from the real Thar owners! Could you share how many kms have you clocked in your Thar yet and how many of them off the roads?? We are trying to battle it out here to see if the IFS(Independent Front Suspension) can survive serious off road bashing. The set up isnt bullet proof we all know that but the expectation is pegged against leaf springs.

You seem to be another happy Thar owner, happy off roading mate...

Sad to hear your soft top issue, M&M has the habit selling you cups without saucers and then charge you for cheap quality saucers for a premium. This is one of the dirty strategies in business which is known to be short lived but highly profitable.

@Greatmana2000: All Jeeps are cars theoretically or on paper...

@Arka: Are you trying to say that Thar crde is too nose heavy and squats beyond acceptable limits??

[speedy]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Sir,

I have no experience modifying an IFS vehicle for Off-Road.

Regards,

Arka

Sir, then i think you should stop bashing Mahindra for the IFS setup given to the CRDE and concentrate on the MDI. That setup is more to your liking.
Both cars are named the same but different end uses. CRDE for the city and rough roads and Mdi for city,rough roads and for offroaders. Yes the CRDE would have me as an exception in the form of me for its end use.

[greatmana2000]

@Greatmana2000: All Jeeps are cars theoretically or on paper...

I thought jeeps and cars had different real world usages . Especially something with a 4wheel drive and different gear ratios . According to the theory , even tractors can be classifed as cars then .

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by speedy

Sir, then i think you should stop bashing Mahindra for the IFS setup given to the CRDE and concentrate on the MDI. That setup is more to your liking.
Both cars are named the same but different end uses. CRDE for the city and rough roads and Mdi for city,rough roads and for offroaders. Yes the CRDE would have me as an exception in the form of me for its end use.

Sir,

Have you used a M&M Vehicle with IFS off-road?

I have seen and used to know what I am saying.

You can definitely modify the IFS provided,
i) Longer Upper Arms?
ii) Longer Lower Arms?
iii) Longer Trans-Axles?
iv) Longer Drag-Links?
v) Heavier Torsion Bar

Basically Re-Engineer the Front End. I'm not that skilled.

Then comes the Universal question of should I lock up the Front or Not.

In an IFS the Axles Shaft are allowed to move about a bit, to allow for Suspension Travel, if you lock it, when you Lock it. What will happen to the CV Joint.So I prefer to leave alone.

While your idea of modification maybe a Roll-Bar or Rock-Slider, I prefer a Stronger Axle, Sturdier Steering, and Maximum Traction.

Unfortunately even the Thar MDI, has missed out the best of M&Ms Goodies, which for a Light 4x4 (sub100-120Bhp) is Bullet Proof.

My Congratulations to your on becoming the Exception, to the Rule

Regards,

Arka

@Wolf, it squats, the acceptable limit is decided by the buyer.

[eagle888]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Thanks for the insight mate, great to hear from the real Thar owners! Could you share how many kms have you clocked in your Thar yet and how many of them off the roads?? We are trying to battle it out here to see if the IFS(Independent Front Suspension) can survive serious off road bashing. The set up isnt bullet proof we all know that but the expectation is pegged against leaf springs.

You seem to be another happy Thar owner, happy off roading mate...

Sad to hear your soft top issue, M&M has the habit selling you cups without saucers and then charge you for cheap quality saucers for a premium. This is one of the dirty strategies in business which is known to be short lived but highly profitable.

@Greatmana2000: All Jeeps are cars theoretically or on paper...

@Arka: Are you trying to say that Thar crde is too nose heavy and squats beyond acceptable limits??

WOLF... To be honest, I wrote here because it seems to get answers from Senior Management...unlike I have got here at home.
I now have friend on FBOOK , from India, trying to get me one !!! I mean a good quality Original, heavy duty Soft-top. I did sent pics and write email to the Outlet where I bought my Baby...to no avail...seems stuff gets stopped on the showroom floor...Senior Management, I am sure, if they knew my plight...if they saw the photo's I have take of the damaged caused by the idiots who installed my hard top...they would Fully understand my UTTER FRUSTRATION!! I know this is not in the nature of the Development team at Mahindra , or the Mahindra management themselves...it seems to be a local thing here in my hometown. That is my opinion, to the best of my knowledge.
A Mahindra Thar 4x4, in my opinion , is a FUN VEHICLE, that the proud owner, like me, can see sunny skies and quickly remove the soft-top and enjoy the vehicle they way it was designed to be enjoyed...'TOPLESS'

Regarding the IFS ....I have done some serious stuff, including climbing the famous Sani Pass, in the Country of Lesotho, here in Africa. I have had no hassels. I am just over 10 000km now and I would say probably 50% of that has been off-road. Yes, you have to watch Rocks...that is driver skills....and yes you may not get the same travel as a diff gets...but that simply adds adrenline to the driver experience as he/she , has to think and negotiate correctly...knowing the capability of the vehicle. etc

Hope this helps!...I love this Mahindra THAR big time...just wish I could reverse the diameter 8mm holes drilled through my Baby's body. Hope some hears...because locally it is like flogging a deadhorse

Possibilities of promises that just fade away...

THAR 4X4 4 EVER!...great vehicle....just dissapointing service locally.

Note from support: Only 2 smilies allowed per post.

[Samurai]

eagle888, can you please post the photos of your soft top and hard top here?