[headers]

Originally Posted by pjbiju

So why should they bother? So all our woes should be addressed to Anand Mahindra and Pawan Goenka. Write them some nice letters and see if they even read them.

I think they do bother and that is why RISE!! But its a huge wheel and we require many more DBs to turn it faster!

It is also surprising that Mahindra is into everything from Heavy trucks to Jeeps to 3 wheelers to 2 wheelers. Where is the focus on now?

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by headers

I think they do bother and that is why RISE!! But its a huge wheel and we require many more DBs to turn it faster!

It is also surprising that Mahindra is into everything from Heavy trucks to Jeeps to 3 wheelers to 2 wheelers. Where is the focus on now?

Do not forget that M&M are one of the larger tractor manufacturers in world in the small and medium sector, and they have decimated the competition (in both pricing and quality).

The diversity of product line should not be much of a worry. Mercedes have a large product range and so does FIAT, GM and TATA to name a few, but that does not mean that they loose direction and produce crap. There is an old saying that if you are a quality craftsman you will produce quality product irrespective of the remuneration and conversely if you are a bad worker you will always produce bad product irrespectively of how much you are paid. Let us see where M&M is heading.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by headers

It is also surprising that Mahindra is into everything from Heavy trucks to Jeeps to 3 wheelers to 2 wheelers. Where is the focus on now?

Gen-sets.

>>The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 20 characters.<<

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by download2live

I fail to understand this criticism.
Its always easier to sit on a fence and crow about the faults. It is tougher to create.

What BD sir has done is the best given the resources given to him. And he has tried to keep the cost also as low as possible.

We are never going to be satisfied. Higher quality comes with higher prices. If the prices were increased we will start crowing about MM doing a Kizashi or Aria.

Lets us appreciate what Mr BD has done under the commercial constrains.

As prospects, we are allowed to crow about faults, no?
end of the day, the car will end up in a showroom, where you or I will be waiting to put down some money.
I really appreciate the work done under the commercial constraints, but then sales would also suffer ,eh, because of our commercial constraints?
I'm just saying....

[download2live]

^^ I guess we have to wait for sales figures. Thats the ONLY way out.
Remember we at Team-BHP are but a small percentage of the total buyers in India.

[AWD]

Originally Posted by download2live

I fail to understand this criticism.
Its always easier to sit on a fence and crow about the faults. It is tougher to create.
What BD sir has done is the best given the resources given to him. And he has tried to keep the cost also as low as possible.
Lets us appreciate what Mr BD has done under the commercial constrains.

If a Consumer is spending his hard earned money, he's entitled to weigh the product inside out. Remember we are buying an end product here & not the men behind it or resources used to build it.

As for me, the Thar is a lousy product, a culmination of poor engineering, thought process & minimal resources. The pricing takes away what ever little advantage it had. Im not buying an experimental product, a half-baked, take me ~ 5 decades back. The ~7-8L market has tremendously changed in the recent times, with hot hatches to sporty sedans, we got it all here. Just compare the products & you would know, Thar does not stand a chance.

So little for a lifestyle vehicle, no safety aspect, just a crude, agricultural, back to the past, lousy Product.

[2theMax]

Still waiting for Thar in Chennai.. I have posted umpteen messages regarding this. Is it such a big deal to launch a product in all metro's atleast. beats me !

Maybe the Terra Tigers should lie low for the Thar to appear LOL !

[BlackRaven]

Originally Posted by 2theMax

Still waiting for Thar in Chennai.. I have posted umpteen messages regarding this. Is it such a big deal to launch a product in all metro's atleast. beats me !

Maybe the Terra Tigers should lie low for the Thar to appear LOL !

Thank the Thar Gods it is not launched yet in chennai

Folks from Chennai , if you plan to use Thar on a daily basis, you can't do so without A/C in the chennai heat. I have lived there for 30 years so I know. It is unbearable even in Bangalore summer.

I am sure whenever it comes to chennai, they will have an A/C solution in place. Either a Kit or fit from factory. May be that is the reason for the launch delay.

[howler]

Originally Posted by download2live

I fail to understand this criticism.
Its always easier to sit on a fence and crow about the faults. It is tougher to create.

What BD sir has done is the best given the resources given to him. And he has tried to keep the cost also as low as possible.

We are never going to be satisfied. Higher quality comes with higher prices. If the prices were increased we will start crowing about MM doing a Kizashi or Aria.

Lets us appreciate what Mr BD has done under the commercial constrains.

the criticism is not directed to BD alone; it is directed towards M&M. its this type of 'chalta-hai' attitude that enables firms like M&M to continuously churn out junk like the 'thar' , and their subsequent claim that the vehicle is above 'standard' inspite of existing and potential customers voicing their concerns. wake up and value your hard earned money, when you are paying close to 7.5 odd lakhs OTR for a bare bones vehicle should'nt you owe youself at least that much? forget creature comfors or FFRA and the like, something as basic as quality should not be debated nor compromised upon. and please dont forget safety, the humble atlo will be safer than the thar in the event of a crash.

[Tha'Red]

folks, my 2 cents: as you know vehicle development is not easy in a market like India as expectations are very varied. This is a challenge to take head on and not use as an excuse for not producing good quality machinery at a reasonable price. It's a tough one at work, but Scorpio is a living example of this achievement, IMHO.

My dad spent nearly 40 yrs in the Auto industry, mostly as a R&D and Vehicle development engineer in 2-wheelers. I have seen prototypes approved for production and then vanish into thin air becasue of business reasons. The Thar may not make as much business sense as a Scorpio or Bolero or Xylo. But it does fulfill the needs of a niche segment.

The team at Mahindra have a challenging job at hand to Rise to, and that should drive them to deliver a quality machine which is different from the standard cars and SUVs we have access to. The chances of some of these standing where the Thar can is worth wondering.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by howler

the criticism is not directed to BD alone; it is directed towards M&M. its this type of 'chalta-hai' attitude that enables firms like M&M to continuously churn out junk like the 'thar' , and their subsequent claim that the vehicle is above 'standard' inspite of existing and potential customers voicing their concerns. wake up and value your hard earned money, when you are paying close to 7.5 odd lakhs OTR for a bare bones vehicle should'nt you owe youself at least that much? forget creature comfors or FFRA and the like, something as basic as quality should not be debated nor compromised upon. and please dont forget safety, the humble atlo will be safer than the thar in the event of a crash.

I was wondering why new car prices are so high in India. Of course there are taxes at the manufacturing stage, and then there are costs after the Ex-Show room price, which for Thar would be a hefty lac or so. So take all the taxes and insurance out and we will be closer to 3-4 lac bracket. That is reasonable for a new vehicle as compared to old ex-army jeeps which come to around 2 lacs after all the mods/repairs (no insurance, no warranty). Let us face it the difference of nearly 5 lacs between the Scorpio 4x4 and the Thar goes in providing what we want - AC, ABS, Hard Top etc. So if we want all the "Life Style" goodies in Thar we should be ready to pay the Scorpio prices.

That said, there is no reason for the reported poor finish and glitches in the newly designed Thar. M&M could have made the fit and finish better, but then they would charge more and we would still be cribbing on the price front.

The way to look at it is
1. You are getting a new vehicle at a 5L discount to the 4x4 Scorpio.
2. You can spend upto half that amount in bringing the vehicle upto your standards - AC, HT, internal finish. This was a standard practice with Ambassadors during 70's and 80's. You take the delivery, go to a garage get your floor welded and modifications done, get AC fitted, go to the upholster and get the upholstery changed, fit fancy accessories. You ended spending 20K on a 40K car, but it would beat many imports hollow in terms of space and comfort.

[somubj]

Originally Posted by Aroy

So take all the taxes and insurance out and we will be closer to 3-4 lac bracket. That is reasonable for a new vehicle as compared to old ex-army jeeps which come to around 2 lacs after all the mods/repairs (no insurance, no warranty). Let us face it the difference of nearly 5 lacs between the Scorpio 4x4 and the Thar goes in providing what we want - AC, ABS, Hard Top etc. So if we want all the "Life Style" goodies in Thar we should be ready to pay the Scorpio prices.

Why should customers bother about what went into the R&D?

Old jeps come at 2 lac, no warranty - agreed; But as soon as you get the modifications done, your Thar will also loose waranty, esp on the important part where R&D had any impact on the product - the IFS.

What is one spending 7 lacs for besides a CRDe engine? Counter comparision can be: procure an old jeep for 1 lac, plonk the CRDe and GB for another 2, all done in 3 lac, where does the remaining amount go, 3 lac? Again, why are we comparing a newly launched product with mayapuri stuff?

One word .. "RISE".

Originally Posted by Aroy

That said, there is no reason for the reported poor finish and glitches in the newly designed Thar. M&M could have made the fit and finish better, but then they would charge more and we would still be cribbing on the price front.

It's already overpriced. I don't think anyone cribbed when Hyundai launched santa fe? Or Ford launched Endeavour, and the list goes on. Why? because there was anough not to crib about.

Originally Posted by Aroy

The way to look at it is
1. You are getting a new vehicle at a 5L discount to the 4x4 Scorpio.
2. You can spend upto half that amount in bringing the vehicle upto your standards - AC, HT, internal finish. This was a standard practice with Ambassadors during 70's and 80's. You take the delivery, go to a garage get your floor welded and modifications done, get AC fitted, go to the upholster and get the upholstery changed, fit fancy accessories. You ended spending 20K on a 40K car, but it would beat many imports hollow in terms of space and comfort.

Why spend lacs on a new vehicle? Why can't the manufacturer give a decent product? We are not taking about trucks here or are we, where buyer get the chasis and mehcanicals and gets to build whatever he wants? above all, who has "time" to get all these things done. And why should customer suffer everytime?

I say, give us a bare bone vehicle - no dashboard, no seats, no interiors, no canopy, no tyres and sell it for 4 lacs. I would be the first person to pick it and get it customized. For an additional 4 lac, i can make a wrangler out of it.

CIAO.

[headers]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Let us face it the difference of nearly 5 lacs between the Scorpio 4x4 and the Thar goes in providing what we want - AC, ABS, Hard Top etc. So if we want all the "Life Style" goodies in Thar we should be ready to pay the Scorpio prices.

Sir, first things first:

1. Scorpio is priced high by atleast 2 lakhs!!
2. If THAR is a lifestyle vehicle then give the lifestyle stuff such as TC, ABS, EBD, Paddle shift, Climate Control etc.
3. If THAR is not #2, give it at 4 lakhs On ROAD and be clear about the customisation / modification / warranty aspect.

Originally Posted by somubj

What is one spending 7 lacs for besides a CRDe engine? Counter comparision can be: procure an old jeep for 1 lac, plonk the CRDe and GB for another 2, all done in 3 lac, where does the remaining amount go, 3 lac? ..

I'd prefer the 2.2 DOHC MHAWK engine over the 2.49 NEF CRDe pushroad engine. Come on Mahindra, give us the latest technology

Originally Posted by somubj

I say, give us a bare bone vehicle - no dashboard, no seats, no interiors, no canopy, no tyres and sell it for 4 lacs. I would be the first person to pick it and get it customized. For an additional 4 lac, i can make a wrangler out of it.

CIAO.

Somubj: With the above, maybe should price it at 3L not 4..

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear all - AC INSTALLATION IN THAR CRDE. I am giving herewith, guideline / preliminary information for dealer equipped AC installation procedure for Thar CRDe.

Please give your comments. I am attaching one photograph.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

SOP FOR AC FITMENT ON THAR CRDe
The Thar CRDe vehicle comes with a factory fitted Heater unit consisting of Blower, Heater Core and Air Distribution system. This vehicle can be equipped with an AC unit. A typical AC unit basically comprises of the following components. Compressor / Evaporator unit / Condenser unit / Expansion valve / Receiver Drier Bottle / Refrigerant Flow Lines / Electrical items like Relays, Controllers, Wiring etc / Refrigerant. In forthcoming sections the existing set up in the vehicle and the nature of change required on each component is elaborated in detail.

Compressor installation procedure - the engine is fitted with an idler pulley, driven by a 7 groove serpentine V-belt. The idler pulley must be replaced with the compressor, same as used in Bolero VLX.

Following steps need to be followed for replacing the idler pulley with the compressor: ->
Loosen the tension bolt, tensioned pulley nut, to relieve the tension and take the belt out from the pulley seat. Once the V-belt is loosened from the pulley, the idler pulley mounting bracket can be removed by loosening the four mounting bolts and replaced with the compressor. The compressor is mounted on to the engine with Hex head flanged bolts M8 x 1.25- 105 mm long, torque to 35 +- 3 Nm. Place the belt over the pulley grooves and tightens the Tensioned pulley. Stabilized tension must lie between 140-145 Hz. Check for proper tightening of all mountings before starting the engine. The compressor comes with the specified amount of Compressor oil. Compressor oil specification is 135 cc, SP10 PAG.

Evaporator installation procedure - the Thar contains a Heater unit which consists of a heater coil housed within the evaporator housing. There are two ways of adapting this unit for AC application.
The first way is to replace the heater coil with a cooling coil. Loosen the bolts (5 nos) holding the evaporator top cover to the bottom cover, also remove two self tapping screws holding the top cover assy. Remove the heating coil housed within the bottom cover and replace with a cooling coil. For routing the AC pipes from the evaporator bottom cover, two holes need to be punched on the plug provided on it (marked). The cooling coil containing the AC pipes can then be routed through the evaporator for final assembly. Replace the top cover back to its original position and tighten the 5 holding bolts. Plug the ducts present in Thar evaporator top cover to prevent air leakage in the circuit. After assembly, ensure proper matching of blower and evaporator face so as to avoid any air leakages.

The second way is a much simpler mix and match method. This involves an extra evaporator unit. Loosen the bolts (5 nos) holding the evaporator top cover to the bottom cover of the heater unit (removed from Thar) as well as the new cooling unit. Swap the top cover removed from the Thar heating unit with the bottom cover housing the new cooling unit. Here, 2 evaporator units are combined to create one cooling unit suitable for use in Thar. Tighten the 5 holding bolts to the original specification. During assembly it will be seen that the drain pipe in this case is oriented towards the left, reorient it towards the right without any kinks for proper functioning. After assembly, ensure proper matching of blower and evaporator face in order to avoid any air leakages. The pipes carrying hot fluid to the coolant must be plugged as the AC circuit no longer requires this. Insert plugs similar to the ones used in engines having “no heater” application (standard parts). These are easily available, and aids easy fitment. After plugging the pipes in the circuit, the tightness and sealing of the joint must be ensured. The joint can be tightened by a suitable size band clamp or a spring band. The joints must be effectively sealed. As the heater unit is now not functional; the circuit carrying hot coolant needs to be plugged tightly. This can be done either by plugging the heater pipes carrying hot fluid into the Heater coil or by plugging the hot water point emanating from the engine side. This is a very critical activity, failure to do this properly will cause coolant leakage which may even lead to overheating, resulting in engine seizure. After completion of this activity, the evaporator installation is complete.

Electrical system installation procedure - as the HVAC system is being changed to AC from Heater, the wiring, switch plate, along with the HVAC controls in the vehicle need to be adapted for the same. The relays must be installed on to the bracket provided in the vehicle (RHS body panel above driver foot well). With this the electrical installation is complete. Ensure designated fuse is in place for condenser fan.

Condenser installation procedure - the condenser has been specifically developed for use in Thar. The specifications mentioned herein have been arrived at after considering all possible conditions, static as well as dynamic. Hence, it is very important that the technician sticks to these guidelines during the installation. Remove the deflector assembly along with the intercooler, intercooler pipes from the vehicle. The condenser contains a dual fan arrangement. The condenser comes with brackets which provide mounting provisions with the deflector box assembly. The relative orientation and clearances of intercooler and condenser assembly is important to ensure requisite performance. On the RHS of the deflector side panel a slot needs to be provided for routing the condenser inlet and outlet pipes, the size of the slot must be in accordance to the grommet provided in the condenser assembly. Once this step is done, the condenser is ready for assembly with the deflector. Once the intercooler, condenser and deflector box are mated together the final assembly will be ready for placement on the vehicle. The length of intercooler hoses change. While assembling the hoses proper tightening of hose with the intercooler must be ensured. Similar hoses can be used on the RH as well as LH sides. Clearances between condenser, intercooler and radiator have been defined in the design. In-order to establish good reliability with the installation, the boundary dimensions must be maintained.

Receiver Drier Bottle Installation - RD bottle to be used for this application is same as Bolero VLX. The RD bottle can be mounted on to the RH fender inner panel. Use O rings while connecting the AC pipes at the compressor end. Use O rings of 5/8” / ½”. The AC pipes connecting the Evaporator unit are, pipe assembly evaporator end and pipe assembly compressor end. AC pipes connecting the Condenser end are new. During plumbing of AC pipes, proper tightening and sealing of all joints must be ensured to avoid refrigerant leaks.
Refrigerant Installation Procedure - this is a standard procedure, so does not need elaboration. The refrigerant to be used is R-134a. The oil for compressor is unique for R-134a. Never run the compressor without the refrigerant in the system as the lubrication relies on the refrigerant flow. Do not allow liquid refrigerant to touch metal and chrome surface as this will damage the surface finish. Never discharge a system or do welding / brazing operations when the engine is switched ON. Most parts used for the AC installation are common with Bolero model. Hence, all standard service procedures like Charging, Discharging, and Purging, Evacuation, Leak Tests, Evaporator Cleaning and performance of Bolero can be taken as a reference.

[condor]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Never run the compressor without the refrigerant in the system as the lubrication relies on the refrigerant flow.

DB sir, one question:

I have seen in owners manuals that we should run the a/c for atleast once a month, so that lubrication will happen. Is this applicable for the Thar also ?