[bansal98]

Originally Posted by souravc

On a separate point , I find it amusing that people still lament the lack of free services in Vento - how about attaching some premium on 1 year / 15K of driving without visiting a service centre with a couple of summer / monsoon free check-ups thrown in between ? Is it too difficult to work out which is the better option

This reminds of a joke. A guys goes to a mango-selling pushcart vendor and offers to buy the whole lot. The vendor refuses. On being asked the reason, he says: Then what will I do for the whole day?

[ritzy]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

IMHO VW is just trying to exploit the customers:
- No comfortline - VW knows the majority of sales should have been in this variant. So what they did. They removed it and made the trendline featureless so that everyone opts for Highline.
Heard that comfortline is on its way. Expect it before this year ends
- No free service.
Or you can say 15000km/1year service free car. In other words it shows how much confidence they have in their own car.
- No polo diesel. Force them to buy the Vento Diesel and get the extra buck. Vento Petrol is not selling. SO get a Polo 1.6 so that atleast you sell some petrol engines.
1.2 TDI is available. IMHO, 1.6 TDI in Polo would make the car excessively expensive to warrant success in our price sensitive market. However got that 1.5 TDI would be added sometime later.
- IPL edition only in petrol. This is because petrol sales are poor. Provide the features only in Petrol trendline and deny it to the other variant aspirants.
As you yourself said Petrol cars are not selling. So what a seller should do?
1. Give heavy discounts like Honda ( thereby devaluating your existing customer's possession)
2. Add features, make the car more VFM albeit by diluting your own profits.

VW chose 2nd option which personally I too feel is correct. (that too din't work out I guess, )
Diesels are selling anyways like hot cakes, why would they bear extra cost of features?

My thoughts in Bold. However I too think that the omission of leather wrapping on steering and other chrome enhancements without informing the customer is an act of cheating.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by bansal98

It may or may not be a cost-cutting measure. Sometime it does happen that minor parts like these cause delay in assembling and delivering a car. Hope it's one of those things. But whatever the case may be, VW should not be slipping in these kind of changes quietly. When you spend 11L on a product, you deserve better treatment than this.

In that case it is even worse. Its is a quality issue.
And it might be against the law.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

No free service - They should give that. But then again as another member just pointed out, the service intervals are long and in the end it all evens out.

Good luck if you are thinking about servicing the Vento diesel after 15000KM. I am well aware that they use synthetic oil that are supposed to last longer. But the fact is it is a diesel with a turbo. And oil change is must every 10000 km at max. The issue with diesels is the turbo, where the temperature is very high and secondly soot that deteriorates the oil quality.
To all Vento TDI owners it is my request to get at-least the oil change done before 10K kms.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Polo Diesel is there in the line up!

I was mentioning the 1.6D.. I could have saved a lac on it.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Ipl edition for the Vento Petrol as thats the model thats not selling. Doesn't a company have a right to promote a particular model which is not doing well. Whats wrong in that?

There is nothing wrong with it.
But, there is a proper way of getting things done. The one that does not hurt customer feelings. They could atleast have offered the ICE as an accessory to other customers.
May be the IPL edition is not exactly exploiting but omission of comfort line and Polo 1.6D is. It forces the customers to but extra stuff that one would not. It is like if you go to buy an apple you wont get it. You will have to buy an orange along with it.

This Marketing strategy is not illegal. To me it is a little unethical.

[souravc]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Good luck if you are thinking about servicing the Vento diesel after 15000KM. I am well aware that they use synthetic oil that are supposed to last longer. But the fact is it is a diesel with a turbo. And oil change is must every 10000 km at max. The issue with diesels is the turbo, where the temperature is very high and secondly soot that deteriorates the oil quality.
To all Vento TDI owners it is my request to get at-least the oil change done before 10K kms.

Servicing is distinct from oil change . There is no reason to second guess the VW recommended service interval , they would have taken adequate note of the engine having turbo. There are already TDi owners on TBHP who have stuck to it and they have no cause for complaint .

The VW recommended engine oil for Vento is Castrol Magnatec Professional which is semi synthetic and its recommended not to use synthetic oil for the first 15K km . Oil level check is recommended every 5K kms and not 10K , especially for the initial 15K kms thats because VW TDi engines are known to be thirsty during the initial breaking in period .

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by bansal98

First of all, we don't really know why VW is doing it. It may or may not be a cost-cutting feature. Second, a car has to be a good car first; everything else is just bonus. Some people get off on the word "fully loaded" and that's totally fine. But some don't and I am one among them. I'd choose Vento over Verna any day. And the difference in equipment is not as drastic as it is made out to be. Equipment can be added later too but you can't do anything about the engine/handling/steering feel etc.

what you are saying is true but seriously what makes you feel that Anhv is a disaster when it comes to handling? This has been posted all over the forum. But what you are ignoring here is that upto speeds of 100 there is hardly any difference. Very rarely some people will go in excess of those speeds. What people actually like is all the added goodies. Ask the vento owners on the forum and everyone will say they miss basic features like aux etc. so on top of this they are randomly deleting stuff from the car without telling the customer is not a great idea in my opinion.

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Good luck if you are thinking about servicing the Vento diesel after 15000KM. I am well aware that they use synthetic oil that are supposed to last longer. But the fact is it is a diesel with a turbo. And oil change is must every 10000 km at max. The issue with diesels is the turbo, where the temperature is very high and secondly soot that deteriorates the oil quality.
To all Vento TDI owners it is my request to get at-least the oil change done before 10K .

They could atleast have offered the ICE as an accessory to other customers.
May be the IPL edition is not exactly exploiting but omission of comfort line and Polo 1.6D is. It forces the customers to but extra stuff that one would not. It is like if you go to buy an apple you wont get it. You will have to buy an orange along with it.

I am sure what you are saying is correct as I do not have much knowledge regarding the life of the oil. But if vw says that its not needed before 15k then I am going with them on this. I feel the company would know whats best for there car.

A polo 1.6 tdi will be great but how many buyers will it get. Already so many people upgrade to vento because of the small price difference. If you narrow it down further I dont think it will sell much.

ICE they should surely provide as an option for upgrade. Thats almost criminal.

[naveen.raju]

The service and checkup id dealer dependent. My car has clocked 11k and went in for checkup twice and got the fluids filled up for free. No other checkup though but a free top of fluids is really great.

During Nov-dec, there was a news from VW stating that they will be introducing a mid range model and later on a more powerful diesel. But seeing the cost cutting measures, am having doubts on this.

[bansal98]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

what you are saying is true but seriously what makes you feel that Anhv is a disaster when it comes to handling? This has been posted all over the forum. But what you are ignoring here is that upto speeds of 100 there is hardly any difference. Very rarely some people will go in excess of those speeds. What people actually like is all the added goodies. Ask the vento owners on the forum and everyone will say they miss basic features like aux etc. so on top of this they are randomly deleting stuff from the car without telling the customer is not a great idea in my opinion.

From whatever I have read till now about mid-size diesel sedans, it's clear that every car has a USP and that's what makes people choose a particular car over another. For Vento, it's the handling, negligible turbo lag and stunning diesel engine. For Verna, it's the goodies. For Manza, it's the sheer amount of space etc and so on. Not that other things are bad in these cars; it's just that these features stand out. So if someone buys a Vento for its driving pleasure and later complains about missing aux-in etc, it's he who is to blame. They knew what they were getting when they opted for Vento. The fact that they paid their hard-earned money and bought it shows that they thought it was a good deal. And it's not like VW hid the fact that aux-in was missing.

I totally agree about removing stuff without informing the buyer being a bad thing. A respectable company like VW should not be indulging in such practices at all, whatever the reason may be. Everybody hates bad surprises.

[nileshch]

Originally Posted by bansal98

From whatever I have read till now about mid-size diesel sedans, it's clear that every car has a USP and that's what makes people choose a particular car over another. For Vento, it's the handling, negligible turbo lag and stunning diesel engine. For Verna, it's the goodies. For Manza, it's the sheer amount of space etc and so on. Not that other things are bad in these cars; it's just that these features stand out. So if someone buys a Vento for its driving pleasure and later complains about missing aux-in etc, it's he who is to blame. They knew what they were getting when they opted for Vento. The fact that they paid their hard-earned money and bought it shows that they thought it was a good deal. And it's not like VW hid the fact that aux-in was missing.

Well said, bansal. One should know what one is buying into, at least when you are spending 10+ lac on a car. And not complain about it later. You asked for it.

As for the uninformed cost cutting, it's bad and sad!

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by bansal98

From whatever I have read till now about mid-size diesel sedans, it's clear that every car has a USP and that's what makes people choose a particular car over another. For Vento, it's the handling, negligible turbo lag and stunning diesel engine. For Verna, it's the goodies. For Manza, it's the sheer amount of space etc and so on.
And it's not like VW hid the fact that aux-in was missing.

No one is saying that vento is a bad car. What I said was that the handling factor has been overrated sometimes. Very few people push there cars to those speeds or indulge in high speed cornering.

Its an evolutionary process. Earlier honda was the segment leader. Vento came with a diesel heart and a vw badge and became a hit, forcing honda to slash prices. Now anhv has launched with multiple engine options, AT box, and higher equipment level. So don't be so surprised if vw either brings in the comfort line variant soon or adds some missing goodies. Ultimately its great for the customer.

[bansal98]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

No one is saying that vento is a bad car. What I said was that the handling factor has been overrated sometimes. Very few people push there cars to those speeds or indulge in high speed cornering.

Its an evolutionary process. Earlier honda was the segment leader. Vento came with a diesel heart and a vw badge and became a hit, forcing honda to slash prices. Now anhv has launched with multiple engine options, AT box, and higher equipment level. So don't be so surprised if vw either brings in the comfort line variant soon or adds some missing goodies. Ultimately its great for the customer.

I am going to take a test drive of Verna this weekend. Who knows, I might be singing paeans of it after that (only from a driving pleasure perspective). I have checked out the car many times and the rear seat is a deal-breaker for me.

[souravc]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

No one is saying that vento is a bad car. What I said was that the handling factor has been overrated sometimes. Very few people push there cars to those speeds or indulge in high speed cornering.

Mohit , I would beg to differ here - handling factor cannot be overrated to any extent, it's one of the most important factors. Its not about high speed stability only , the instability creeps in if there is any deteoriation in the road condition, car loading distribution, etc so please do not think that the stability comes in only at 100+ speeds- thats a misconception.

As Nilesh said ANHV would attract a certain segment of people but my thought process is that I cannot retrofit handling , build quality , paint quality and stonker of a diesel engine on an ANHV but I can retrofit parking sensors , blue tooth ( straight forward change of HU or otherwise through GPS ) on my Vento and it would not cost me more than 25K for a good setup.
I do not miss reverse camera ( sensors are more than enough), push button start , key less entry whose novelty value wears off sooner than one realises and those extra 4 air bags which are more than made up by the Vento's better handling and build quality.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by souravc

Mohit , I would beg to differ here - handling factor cannot be overrated to any extent, it's one of the most important factors. Its not about high speed stability only , the instability creeps in if there is any deteoriation in the road condition, car loading distribution, etc so please do not think that the stability comes in only at 100+ speeds- thats a misconception.

Allow me to give you an idea of what I am trying to say here. I have three cars at home and all 3 are very different in the handling department.
1. NHC - The car always feels very light. A little too light for my comfort. Touch speeds of 80-100 and it starts getting scary. The feel I get is as if I am flying and the car doesn't feel planted.
2. Lancer Petrol - Till date the best car in terms of handling. I have touched 150 on it once ( which is the maximum I have ever done) and even then the engine started making angry noises and I realised the speed at which I was. The car didn't even let me realise the speed. It was absolutely in my control.
3. Toyota innova- The least said the better. I cannot even think of crossing 100. Mostly just hover around 80-110. Reason? Its boat like handling and it doesn't inspire much confidence. I have seen Taxi drivers going at much higher speeds in the same car but I cannot do that.

All the above drives have been done on highways. So what I am trying to say is that for normal day to day city commute I don't seem to notice any difference as such. Ofcourse a slight difference is there but not something which would govern my buying decision/advice regarding these 3 cars.

As Nilesh said ANHV would attract a certain segment of people but my thought process is that I cannot retrofit handling , build quality , paint quality and stonker of a diesel engine on an ANHV but I can retrofit parking sensors , blue tooth ( straight forward change of HU or otherwise through GPS ) on my Vento and it would not cost me more than 25K for a good setup.

Well its not about retro fitting. Absence of Usb or parking sensors is not exactly a deal breaker for me. Infact you might be surprised to know that I will pick the Vento myself over the ANHV any day for pure build quality. Absolutely love that 'thud' each time you close the door. But how much would it cost VW to provide usb/aux in the car? How many non car enthusiasts or people on a strict budget can change a brand new ICE for a new one only for that usb connectivity? So these are not features I cant live without but surely they are nice to have.

Another one I sorely miss is auto folding ORVMs. Its just pure bliss when you can control your ORVMs without moving too much.

I do not miss reverse camera ( sensors are more than enough), push button start , key less entry whose novelty value wears off sooner than one realises and those extra 4 air bags which are more than made up by the Vento's better handling and build quality.

Again all are very nice features. Those extra 4 air bags can make the difference between life and death. How does build quality compensate for that? VW gives 6 air bags for the Jetta highline. I wished they could atleast offer the same for the Vento as an option atleast.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by souravc

Servicing is distinct from oil change .

Yes i agree, but it is the most important part of servicing. The engine life depends on it. Moreover it costs around 5000 out of 10000 of the total bill. (Polo 1.6).
The other thing specific to diesel engine is the air cleaner. Since there is no throttle valve in CI engines, and considering the quality of air in India it is also a must change component every 7500 RPM along with the oil change. Recent survey showed varied quantity of diesel impurity in different cities of India. Depending on your location, the Fuel filter can can also be a possible change.

Originally Posted by souravc

its recommended not to use synthetic oil for the first 15K km.

Some manufacturers discourage use of synthetics in the run in. These type of oils hinder engine wear & tear. Not exactly what you need in the initial stage.

Originally Posted by souravc

Oil level check is recommended every 5K kms and not 10K , especially for the initial 15K kms thats because VW TDi engines are known to be thirsty during the initial breaking in period .

Level check is before any long journey. I would suggest you to check it on a monthly basis. It isnt a difficult task. In general an engine performs best with 75% oil. I am not talking about performance. I am talking about oil life.
If you use too little oil, your oil will be highly stressed. If you use more, they can come in contact with moving parts during bumpy drives and create froth.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I am sure what you are saying is correct as I do not have much knowledge regarding the life of the oil. But if vw says that its not needed before 15k then I am going with them on this. I feel the company would know whats best for there car.

Trust me It is just a marketing gimmick recently followed by many OEMs. My job is to evaluate oil related performance in Engines. And I can tell you there are a lot of additives that get depleted rather quickly. There had been a few requests to Oil companies by OEMs to restore these additives instead of oil change but it is not that simple. Bottom line an oil looses most of its properties after 15K.

We have tested cars that have run 80K without oil change. It still runs. But there is a drop in performance. So changine oil at 15000 is not going to kill it, but a change at 7500 is welcome.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

A polo 1.6 tdi will be great but how many buyers will it get. Already so many people upgrade to vento because of the small price difference. If you narrow it down further I dont think it will sell much.

You have a point.
But the sales of Polo 1.6 is not dismal. I am sure the 1.6D would be better.

Originally Posted by souravc

Mohit , I would beg to differ here - handling factor cannot be overrated to any extent, it's one of the most important factors.

I rate handling even more important than safety (Airbags). It will help you avoid accident in the first place.

[shivasuma]

Originally Posted by bansal98

From whatever I have read till now about mid-size diesel sedans, it's clear that every car has a USP and that's what makes people choose a particular car over another. For Vento, it's the handling, negligible turbo lag and stunning diesel engine.

Agreed that the vento has close to zero lag and a superb engine. If its handling, then look no further than the linea or the new fiesta. Also the steering in the vento has no feel. Oh yes, and the engine makes a huge racket.

[fuel_addict]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

A polo 1.6 tdi will be great but how many buyers will it get. Already so many people upgrade to vento because of the small price difference. If you narrow it down further I dont think it will sell much.

Now, that would be a game changer, wouldn't it. A 1.6 TDi in the Polo. Sadly, to keep Vento's market position intact, it is unlikely the Polo will ever have a 1.6 D option seeing how less the 1.6 petrol Polo sells. Even the rumours about a 1.5 TDi Polo seem to be just that - only rumours.