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Old 21st November 2019, 16:46   #196
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Mechanical Empathy | Preserving the Car While Driving

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Originally Posted by raneesao View Post
Hello everyone!

This one is definitely one of those old but still gold threads.

I had one question which has been bugging me. I have seen many drivers and technicians say that you shouldn't start up the car and immediately put it in reverse. They advise putting it in 1st, and driving 6 inches forward before putting it in reverse and backing it up. I can't think of any technical reason for this. Anyone?

Happy motoring,
Anees
They do it as they believe your first move should always be 'forward' and not 'backwards'. I got this answer from someone who had a habit of doing this. Don't remember the person though but i still remember what he said.
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Old 21st November 2019, 17:12   #197
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Mechanical Empathy | Preserving the Car While Driving

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They do it as they believe your first move should always be 'forward' and not 'backwards'. I got this answer from someone who had a habit of doing this. Don't remember the person though but i still remember what he said.
I kinda suspected this is more superstition than technical. Considering I haven't received any technical reasons in the past 2-3 days, I am going to assume that that is the case! Thanks!
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Old 21st November 2019, 18:12   #198
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Mechanical Empathy | Preserving the Car While Driving

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Originally Posted by raneesao View Post
I have seen many drivers and technicians say that you shouldn't start up the car and immediately put it in reverse. They advise putting it in 1st, and driving 6 inches forward before putting it in reverse and backing it up. I can't think of any technical reason for this. Anyone?
Only applicable to manual gearboxes, since reverse gear in most (all?) 'boxes isn't synchromesh. Slot into first before slotting into reverse (you don't need to move the car at all), and you'll find the reverse gear engages more easily than if you started the car in neutral and immediately tried to engage reverse gear.

The 'driving 6 inches forward' bit may be related to some kind of spiritual way of convincing learners that it's a necessary procedure - maybe something to do with 'always move forward, don't start your day in reverse'.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 21st November 2019 at 18:15.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 10:29   #199
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Mechanical Empathy | Preserving the Car While Driving

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Originally Posted by KkVaidya View Post
They do it as they believe your first move should always be 'forward' and not 'backwards'. I got this answer from someone who had a habit of doing this. Don't remember the person though but i still remember what he said.
Superstition may have been encouraged by mechanics so that people follow the procedure.
Most gear boxes do not usually have oil pumps, and oil circulation is better during forward motion. A few feet of forward motion means your top shaft has thrown up the required oil, all wheels are wet with oil and lubricated, while reversing the oil thrown up will be far less, and the gears in the front will remain dry.

This is not applicable to the current day gearboxes.


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Old 3rd July 2020, 17:41   #200
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Default Re: Mechanical Empathy | Brakes

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Nothing makes the brakes last longer, than by not using them. Ya, right, I'm ducking already, anticipating all the brickbats that you are going to throw at me. And that is the crux of the matter - anticipating that you need to stop, well before you do. Not only do you save your brake pads from wearing out, you save a lot of fuel in the bargain too.
Thank you. This is exactly what I do and have been doing for years. I do get better fuel efficiency than most other drivers to the point that many often refused to believe me. Once upon a time, in our Maruti 1000, I used to get 14 kmpl in real life driving in Kolkata. People thought I was fibbing. Even today in my SX4 ZDi, I get 14--15 kmpl in regular city driving. It's only due to my self imposed eco mode of gentle acceleration and minimal braking together with using gears to keep the revs near 1500 rpm as much as possible. After all, a penny saved is a penny earned.
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Old 4th July 2020, 22:15   #201
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Mechanical Empathy | Preserving the Car While Driving

I think this is the appropriate thread to ask the question which has been bothering me ever since I bought our vehicle last year. (Creta 1.6 Petrol Manual)

I consider myself as someone who is little too careful while driving to ensure that I don't stress the engine at all.

I am not sure if this approach is causing more harm to the engine than saving it.

So below are my queries:-

1. I tend to drive mostly within the 1500-2000 band where 8 out of 10 times the RPM is around 1500 to 1700 irrespective of which gear I am in. Am I lugging the engine by doing that?

2. I tend to change gears (upshift) mostly within 1000-1500 rpm band. Is that the correct approach or should I upshift only within 1500-2000 rpm band?

3. I always try to be at the highest gear at the lowest RPM possible without stalling the engine. Am I being too conservative?

4. After firing up the engine, I idle the engine for at least 1 minute and then drive. I heard that it's not required nowadays and I should engage the gears without idling the engine.

Please suggest if I should change any of the above to ensure that the engine is happy. Please note I am a sedated driver.
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Old 4th July 2020, 23:13   #202
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Mechanical Empathy | Preserving the Car While Driving

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1. I tend to drive mostly within the 1500-2000 band where 8 out of 10 times the RPM is around 1500 to 1700 irrespective of which gear I am in. Am I lugging the engine by doing that?
No.

Quote:
2. I tend to change gears (upshift) mostly within 1000-1500 rpm band. Is that the correct approach or should I upshift only within 1500-2000 rpm band?
There's no set range. 1500+ RPM is the bare minimum you should upshift at, because the RPM will fall when you shift to a higher gear. Plan your upshifts so that the resultant RPM in the selected gear does not fall below 1000-1200 RPM. 2000 RPM should be the sweet spot even for a sedate driver.

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3. I always try to be at the highest gear at the lowest RPM possible without stalling the engine. Am I being too conservative?
Yes, you are. In my Swift petrol, I upshift between 4000-5000 RPM when in the mood. Most of the petrol cars deliver serious punch at higher RPMs. I'll only say that you're missing out on a lot of fun by upshifting so early.

In most of the modern cars, ECU will prevent the engine from stalling when the revs are too low. However you might be unknowingly lugging the engine if you're used to driving at idle/very low RPMs. The engine will take its own sweet time when you want press the throttle to build speed from such low RPMs which is not good.

Quote:
4. After firing up the engine, I idle the engine for at least 1 minute and then drive. I heard that it's not required nowadays and I should engage the gears without idling the engine.
Good practice on a cold engine. Not required otherwise.

Last edited by self_driven : 4th July 2020 at 23:15.
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Old 22nd February 2021, 09:31   #203
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Default Re: Mechanical Empathy | Clutch

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Clutches burn/wear out because they slip. And they slip because your left foot makes them. There's no way that I can prove how well or badly you drive, except by assessing how long your clutch lasts before suffering terminal slippage. Cars that I have owned and driven personally, usually had clutch service life of over 100,000 km. Similar clutch life has been reported by others on the forum, and off it.
Hello SS-Traveller,

Thank you for this wonderful thread. I as a new driver, got to learn a lot from it. But being new to driving, I have some questions. Would be grateful if you could answer:

1. If a car has to driven in crowded areas frequently, in markets where one has to keep their foot on the clutch most of the time, how do we ensure that the clutch lasts long?

2. How can I identify if my car has a worn out clutch? Does a creaking sound on pressing the clutch imply that it’s worn out?

3. How does one ensure that a car with an automatic gearbox doesn’t suffer gearbox damage? Is there a ‘wrong way’ of handling an automatic car that causes premature transmission damage?

Regards,
Sanidhya
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Old 6th March 2021, 12:18   #204
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Default Re: Mechanical Empathy | Clutch

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Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund View Post
I have some questions. Would be grateful if you could answer:

1. If a car has to driven in crowded areas frequently, in markets where one has to keep their foot on the clutch most of the time, how do we ensure that the clutch lasts long?
The usual practice that most people follow is to let the pedal up halfway to allow the car to crawl at a slower speed. Instead, use the C-pedal like an ON-OFF switch. Let it up a little, get the car to move to desired speed, then press the pedal all the way in to allow the car to roll freely as long as possible.

Also, test out how fast your car will crawl in first gear without using the A- and C-pedals at all. In crowded areas, often when the speed of traffic is at walking pace, doing this saves the clutch - but folks try to keep the car in 2nd gear and use the C-pedal to control the speed, which burns clutch faster than one can imagine.

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Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund View Post
2. How can I identify if my car has a worn out clutch? Does a creaking sound on pressing the clutch imply that it’s worn out?
Clutch wear requiring overhaul is often difficult to determine. Go through this thread (About clutch wear & replacement) for some possible symptoms, but then they can be sorted out sometimes without overhauling the clutch. Because it is so easy to fool someone about his car needing a new clutch, we also have a thread like this (SCAM Alert "Saar, your car needs a clutch overhaul").
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund View Post
3. How does one ensure that a car with an automatic gearbox doesn’t suffer gearbox damage? Is there a ‘wrong way’ of handling an automatic car that causes premature transmission damage?
There seem to be certain myths being circulated regarding the "right way" to drive automatic transmissions. Certain designs (hydraulic automatics with torque converter, or continuously variable transmission (CVT)) are fairly abuse-proof and can last the lifetime of the car (and more), except if you were attempting to shift from D to R or P when the car is moving forward at speed. Certain 'boxes (DSG, DCT) have clutches that do wear out, and there have been debates earlier about whether we are driving them wrongly (DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly?). Many say that shifting an AT into N when stopped for a prolonged period helps prevent wear. As I see it, it certainly does save fuel to shift any AT into N when stopped and idling - so doing that as a matter of habit is probably a good thing for our environment. As far as AMT systems go, yes, holding them in gear when stopped and idling does burn up the clutch, so shifting an AMT into N when stopped, certainly prolongs clutch life.
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Old 6th March 2021, 12:38   #205
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Default Re: Mechanical Empathy | Clutch

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Let it up a little, get the car to move to desired speed, then press the pedal all the way in to allow the car to roll freely as long as possible.
Sir, does this imply that when the C Pedal is fully depressed, there is no physical contact of the Clutch plate with the fly wheel and Clutch does not slip and burn?

We often encounter scenarios in stop and go traffic where waiting time is 5-10 seconds in between the crawls. What do you suggest: Shift the car to N every time we need to pause for 5-10 seconds or keep the clutch fully depressed while car stays in 1st gear during the moments of pause.
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Old 6th March 2021, 12:46   #206
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Default Re: Mechanical Empathy | Clutch

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Sir, does this imply that when the C Pedal is fully depressed, there is no physical contact of the Clutch plate with the fly wheel and Clutch does not slip and burn?

We often encounter scenarios in stop and go traffic where waiting time is 5-10 seconds in between the crawls. What do you suggest: Shift the car to N every time we need to pause for 5-10 seconds or keep the clutch fully depressed while car stays in 1st gear during the moments of pause.
The idea is to reduce clutch plate wear as far as possible. Pressing the clutch pedal all the way in reduces the quantum of friction as opposed to keeping the pedal held halfway, and shifting to neutral and letting go of the pedal completely eliminates friction for all practical purposes. So shifting to N and letting go of the C-pedal at the first opportunity is by far the best practice to minimize clutch wear.
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Old 6th March 2021, 13:06   #207
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Mechanical Empathy | Preserving the Car While Driving

To add, when you keep the C pedal pressed down for long durations the release bearing is being stressed and eventually it will wear out prematurely and starts to make noise as you press depress the C pedal as well as the pedal becomes harder.
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Old 6th March 2021, 13:49   #208
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Mechanical Empathy | Preserving the Car While Driving

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To add, when you keep the C pedal pressed down for long durations the release bearing is being stressed and eventually it will wear out prematurely and starts to make noise as you press depress the C pedal as well as the pedal becomes harder.
A few decades ago, that little device that allowed the clutch fork to push a rotating component of the clutch was a bush, not a bearing. With the incorporation of the bearing there, the wear was reduced significantly even if the pedal was held down for longer than usual, and that component usually has a longer life now than the friction plate. Yes, with poor quality bearings there is a chance of premature failure and noise.

OTOH, the hard clutch has to do with the pressure plate fingers acquiring a harder temper with use and repeated heating & cooling. In most dry single plate clutch systems which have gone 'hard', changing the pressure plate results in a much lighter clutch pedal action, irrespective of whether the release bearing is changed or not. We preemptively change the bearing at the time of clutch overhaul only because that component is in such an inaccessible position that a failure at a later date will result in a bigger wastage of time and money (taking the clutch apart) than if the change was done at the time of overhaul.
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Old 15th July 2021, 19:20   #209
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Default Windshield Sticker Menace

Hello,

I just got my new Seltos and one thing I am trying to avoid in my new car is the increasing menace of windshield stickers. In my last car I think I would have had about 6, in spite of having removed a few, they just keep accumulating.

Thanks to GOI we now have the regn number and fast tag added to the list of stickers to go on the windshield. Then you have for office, Appartment, polution, and a few others which vary. These also change, like when you move house or switch jobs etc.

So you get my frustration. I would be happy to learn of any solution you folks might have.

I found this one .....
https://canary.contestimg.wish.com/a...b3b5f180c76096

It's transparent and electrostatic and does not have glue, But I am unable to get these delivered from China. And could not find any alternatives in India.

Apologies if this has already been discussed in the forum, in which case do point me to the relevant thread.

TC
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