Team-BHP (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)

-   On owning a car (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/owning-car/)

-   -   ARTICLE: YOUR 5 year old car : Keep, Upgrade or Swap? (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/owning-car/44804-article-your-5-year-old-car-keep-upgrade-swap-7.html)

Talking of used Palio, i think a used petrol Palio will keep those who like petrol cars since they save a lot on EMIs and just spend on petrol.
What about a tiny fraction who has modified cars such as mivec lancers. Is there anything that offers same? People who are permanently hooked on to performance. I can't even think of loosing my t-ohc.

What are those formalities and how does one go about it? That is a very common issue in the NCR area where you have to deal with Haryana, Delhi and UP registered cars. Also how can one make sure while selling a used car that the buyer will change it to his name? If he doesn't how does the seller protect himself from any legal responsibility?

In tune with the times, the environmental cost of a new vehicle also needs to be kept in mind. Some agency did a study in Europe where it turned out that replacing an old car with a new one was more damaging to the environment *despite* lower emissions from the newer car.

I am sorry I do not recall the specifics of this study.

@gto
this write up opened my eyes & i really thought about it & forwarded it to many people including one uncle of mine in bangalore. he is nearing 80 years old. & just spoke to him this morning & i asked him if he read the whole write-up. i am quoting his exact words:

"beta maine apna kal sudhaarne ke liye apna aaj bigaad diya, you live only once enjoy it your way, you may be too old to enjoy your tomorrow then"

translated
"i have wasted today for a better tomorrow,..."

nothing to take from what you wrote gto, very very logical, but my uncles words stung me today!

For some people car is status symbol and I am one of them. I am in late 20s and yet unmarried, keeping latest greatest cars works good for my image. My honda city is now 4 years old and I am already thinking about upgrading to honda civic or used accord.

What GTO says is 100% correct but having peppiness of new car is more exciting for me rather then saving few lakhs and maintaining old car. Though my car is in perfect condition I rather sell it and upgrade to Honda civic due to 3 reasons.

1) safety and features (airbags, abs etc.,) not available in honda city.
2) Status. I know the day I bought honda civic I will be talk of the town in my area at least for few days ;)
3) Bigger and newer cars definitely gets you some more attention from chicks. Hell ya, it works. Works for me.

Yes, if you are married, have kids and are 30+ then what GTO said is 1000% correct, you loose money selling 5 years old car.

Remember, New car is NEW CAR, old car is OLD CAR.. I say, if you can afford it, you should get it.

Nice article and quite some work on the figures. While I did know some of the costs associated with an upgrade, I never gave it such deep thought. Anyway high upgrade cost or not, I belong to the minority that sticks to cars/bikes for a looooong time. Still, was good to know the figures.

@Max and @anilkalvani, I don't think GTO is suggesting that all of us should stick to our old M800, Santro, Ikon, Baleno etc till kingdom come. He just wants to give an idea of how much we are losing financially when we upgrade. While we would think of only the extra EMI, he wants to bring to the fore the other variables that we would normally miss. Just so that even when we are upgrading, we know the cost involved and are making an informed decision.

This would be a deterrent for those that are upgrading just for the heck of it. But in the case of those that are upgrading to get more chick-attention, just go ahead and get that Civic. After all, what is a few lakhs when compared to a chick-magnet, eh ? :)

What GTO said is correct even if you are not married, don't have kids or are less than 30 in age. The money lost in upgrade costs, apply to all - does not discriminate between bachelors and married guys etc.

Hey phamilyman, Mumbai-walaahs also see status in a car. Ask Max. :)

Funnily enough, when I told my dad that I planned to keep my current car for 10 years, he categorically told me to stop being an idiot and that he'd pay for a new car after my current one crossed 5 years if I was feeling too stingy.

Excellent inputs. Though not comfortable with first couple of pages, subsequent clarifications cleared the clouds

I came across many thoughts like selling my swift due to those niggling rattling noises / upgrading my swift for a Baleno and many more. I do not know about maths mentioned here, but my head wanted to stick with Swift.

Spent few additional bucks on speakers (5K) and wanted to upgrade tyres (stock tyres done around 45K kms) (14k) & Art leather seats (2.5K) just to increase the comfort feel with car everyday.

Edit: If iam gonna change it, its only for ABS and Airbag

Excellent point. With cars being such a visible symbol, I guess people are aware that they get judged by what they drive. Everyone is aware of the various car prices and you get quickly bracketed based on what you drive. Interestingly, this kind of stuff has started cropping up increasingly in conversations and people ask you 'what car do you drive?' - with an exact intention to bracket you.
This can make you feel uncomfortable at times - inadequate, if you are driving a small car or the focus of unwanted attention, if you are the owner of a C+ segment car.
I don't think anyone would have ever asked you on what fridge you own, what TV you own.
We have started imbibing western consumerist ideas on dress,food,drinks,looks and not surprisingly, this extends to cars as well. So, 'keeping up with the Jonesses' is becoming very real in India.
Let me close with with a quip from Sam Walton, founder of Wal-Mart, who is said to have famously commented on his choice of vehicle, "Why do I drive a pickup truck? What am I supposed to haul my dogs around in, a Rolls-Royce?"

If you are driving a 5 year old Toyota product, relax!!! its just kicking into mid-life crisis and has a long way to go.

I agree sri..I completely agree..Read the article here and you will understand where sri is coming from:

Indian Vogue draws fire for using peasants to model luxury clothes

An Indian edition of Vogue showing apparently impoverished villagers modelling luxury handbags and umbrellas has caused outrage for "spitting in the face" of the poor.

By Amrit Dhillon in New Delhi
Last Updated: 10:29PM BST 01 Sep 2008

In the August edition of Vogue India, one photograph among several shot in Rajasthan, shows an old couple outside a mud hut with the turbaned man holding a Burberry umbrella and his smiling wife sporting an Etro handbag.

In a country where the World Bank says over 500 million people live on 65p a day, the magazine has drawn criticism for its decision to use the poor as models.

"Putting expensive necklaces around the poor women is like spitting in the face of the poor," said Kanika Gahlaut, a columnist with India's Mail on Sunday newspaper. "Some Indians now live in bubbles, celebrating their wealth and totally de-sensitised to the poor."
Poverty and wealth have always co-existed in India, but the proximity is now eyelash-to-eyelash. Once, the maharajas kept their wealth inside their palaces while rich businssmen travelled abroad to shop for their luxury goods.

But in the new India, where the middle class is enjoying disposable income for the first time, emaciated rickshaw wallahs sit on their bicycles outside gleaming shopping malls where they could barely afford a fizzy drink.
Vogue Editor Priya Tanna defended the photo shoot. "As with any other creative pursuit, fashion feeds and thrives on fantasy, aspirations and above all fun," she said, adding that it was a shoot "that we are extremely proud of and consider to be one of our most beautiful editorial executions".
In a separate interview she said: "You have to remember with fashion, you can't take it that seriously. We weren't trying to make a political statement or save the world."
The photo shoot has angered social commentators, who see it as another example of a callous indifference towards the poor.
"The poor are always used as props, not as real people, which is why they haven't even been named in the magazine," said columnist Parsa Venkateshwar Rao. "Would they use homeless or hard up people in London for this kind of shoot?"

Luxury brands used to worry about selling their goods in a country where beggar children crowd every traffic intersection hoping for a few rupees.
Now they have solved the problem by moving into a new luxury mall in an upmarket district of south Delhi. DLF Emporio, opening this month, is dedicated exclusively to brands such as Cartier, Tod's, Dolce & Gabbana, Louis Vuitton, Dior, Tiffany's, Zegna, Paul Smith, Versace and Jimmy Choo.
Earlier, they could be found only in outlets in five star hotels. Now they will have their own special mall, where the rich can shop without being bothered by the sights and smells of the "other" India.

For some servants, intimate awareness of the lifestyles of their rich "sahibs" – ordering takeaways that cost as much as their monthly salaries – the disparity can be hard to take. The newspapers are full of stories of maids, cooks or drivers murdering their masters and running off with cash and jewellery. Middle class families go out for a meal and make the ayah - nanny - stand by their table. She is not allowed to sit.

"A friend of mine saw an ayah sitting in the toilet of a five star hotel in Bangalore," said Raja Menon, a film director who recently made a film about the disparity between rich and poor. "The family were dining in the hotel and told her to wait in the toilet."

Source: The Telegraph UK

Very interesting read and such patronizing BS for the benefit of a Brit audience. I can just imagine old white women in their silly hats and old white men in their coats sitting in a lawn and discussing the terrible Indian middle class over tea. Of course England never had any disparity when it was developing. And of course there are no poor left in England.
There are always two sides to a story at the very least and thousands of nuances. Those maids are working because they need the money. India's evil middle class supports a massive population below it. Ask them - would they rather go hungry or work and not have to worry about their next meal? For many of them this is the best life they've ever had because life for the poor in India can be very bleak.
Perhaps Miss Dhillon should have talked to some of these maids and figured out what they really think rather than blindly pimping for her Brit editors.
I'm not discussing the merits of what Vogue did - that may very well be in bad taste.

Yes I agree with you some of it maybe BS. But you never got what I was trying to say with this article. That is why I highlighted the parts I found were true (except the last one)

I was quoting sri
"We have started imbibing western consumerist ideas on dress,food,drinks,looks and not surprisingly, this extends to cars as well. So, 'keeping up with the Jonesses' is becoming very real in India."

This article merely proves the above point and nothing else.

I do think that the last part is BS.

Hi Starscream, several discussions on this in our database. Please search through.

Whatever works for you. I am surprised at the number of comments pointing toward "status" as a major criteria for an upgrade. Or maybe not.

Does status only depend on the car you drive? What about your lifestyle? Wouldn't the 22 lakh rupees saved with sticking to your current C segmenter give you a better lifestyle? I am sure even a small part of it would. What about your level of IQ, wisdom, fitness, exposure & personality? Surely, these affect the status quotient significantly too?

3 of the 5 people I respect the most own an Ikon, a 9 year old Accord (in the states) and a 7 year old Accent. You'd agree that these cars are hardly special. But I can assure you, the owners are.

Again, to each his own. If you are happier with a car upgrade, so be it. Just be aware of the costs involved.

Not too many cars stay rattle-free on our roads. Do what I do : Switch the stereo volume high, drown all those annoying squeaks / rattles and enjoy the drive. Peace of the mind guaranteed :D.

GTO, even I have been surprised to the extent to which cars have come to be viewed to be as a status symbol in our society. Earlier, people held onto their cars for a much longer timeframe. Such is not the case these days. Earlier choices were less,I guess. Now, there are choices at each price band and with the proliferation of choices, has also come a hierarchy. And there are people I know, barely into twenties and who have just started earning, willing to spend most of their salary in paying EMIs for a new Honda Civic. Pray, why? - because it is 'tashan'. And when I tell them that I plan to hold onto my cars for at least 6-7 years, they look at me like I am a dinosaur.
Admittedly, most Indians who buy cars are still looking for VFM and that shows in the sales charts - the M800s,Altos , Indicas and the Wagon Rs topping the numbers.
But there is now a new breed of Indian youth who, with much more financial power at a younger age than their parents at a similar age, is willing to spend, to splurge and seek out the 'best' in life. And the car makers and the ad makers are eyeing them greedily, eager to nurture such tendencies.(As an aside, it is interesting to note the Logan ad, which mocks such 'Dikhawa')
Btw, I think the financial outlay involved in an upgrade, which you have pointed out so succintly, is excellent and a real eye-opener. You can't argue with those numbers you have put.