[hserus]

You cannot. And you still cannot establish that it is litigation free. Maybe hire a private detective from the several agencies operating in your city I guess.

A cash receipt simply means you have paid X cash to someone and received that in exchange. Nothing to establish ownership beyond the RC book, unless there is a deed, will, sale agreement, power of attorney etc sort of paperwork.

In the sort of informal way cars are sold, one dealer will sell to another sub dealer who will then sell the vehicle to you and that is what lies behind 99% of the "real owner is in the USA, this is her nephew who is selling the car" type stories.

Originally Posted by Kaboooooom

Er... No offence, but that really does not answer my query. Please note, I am looking for specific information on how to establish clearly about the fact that Buyer B bought Car C, which is Registered in the name of W, by paying Amount A, to Dealer D.

If tomorrow D turns out to be a dealer of something illegal in state P, and is being investigated. P Police asks B, what did he pay D amount A for? How will B provide a clear proof?

I dont think affidavits are of much value. I was told there is something called a cash receipt with a revenue stamp, but not clear about it. Also, wouldnt that also require address and ID proof of D to be of any value?

[Kaboooooom]

Originally Posted by hserus

You cannot. And you still cannot establish that it is litigation free. Maybe hire a private detective from the several agencies operating in your city I guess.
.

I am not trying to be funny here sir. There are agents in a land deal too, however (not going into the details of actual price vs shown price etc), at least the Shown price is clearly mentioned in the registry, including the payment details, that amount AAA was paid to Seller (current owner of property) vide cheque number XXX of bank YYY from Buyer B to Seller S. No private investigators, lawyers etc are needed for this part. I dont understand why is becoming so difficult to get an answer to this simple trace-ability of payment factor which is very clearly established in Land deals.

Does this mean, everyone, including the Strict and Law abiding citizens of TeamBHP also deal in second hand car market without having a clear proof of payment because, that's the way it is. I cant believe this.

[hserus]

You are in a second hand car deal not a land deal. And purchase prices are routinely kept down with transactions in cash - quite the same as in any land deal. The registered amount is as likely as not going to be different from the amount that actually changed hands.

You can ask for - at the most - the original receipt from the dealer which shows you what the car was worth when it was first purchased. And you can track the IDV for the car in the insurance policy - but that won't have more than an approximate relationship to the price.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by Kaboooooom

Does this mean, everyone, including the Strict and Law abiding citizens of TeamBHP also deal in second hand car market without having a clear proof of payment because, that's the way it is. I cant believe this.

I doubt many of the Strict citizens would want to get into a deal like you mentioned above. So we/they will not be able to help/guide you either. Why would you want to buy a car registered in the name of W when she is not in the picture at all?

Regarding agents buying the car and then later reselling it, the cost doesnt matter for car transactions since there is no duty to be paid ( there is the 1% TCS above 10 lacs). You can put in any amount as consideration, have the signatures, submit the original RC and you are done. Nobody bothers who paid how much to whom.

Before you ask, yes, somebody can steal you car, your RC, forge your signature and transfer the ownership.

Heard from a friend : Some moneylender gave loan against the taxi and kept the RC as collateral. The taxi owner applied for a duplicate RC ( claiming lost ) and sold the car.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by m8002?

Heard from a friend : Some moneylender gave loan against the taxi and kept the RC as collateral. The taxi owner applied for a duplicate RC ( claiming lost ) and sold the car.

That is what hypothecation registered at the RTO is supposed to prevent. But "local financier" types are hardly likely to use it, given the source of their cash.

That taxi owner probably brought himself a lot of grief / hurt if he continued to stay in the same area as the moneylender though, given the usual type of individual that operates a private moneylending business.

[Kaboooooom]

Originally Posted by m8002?

I doubt many of the Strict citizens would want to get into a deal like you mentioned above. So we/they will not be able to help/guide you either. Why would you want to buy a car registered in the name of W when she is not in the picture at all?

With due respect, the query is not about price evaluation, or whether a pre-owned car should be bought at all among other advise. Not everyone has the luxury to deal only with family and friends. Agents/dealers and their commission is a legal and reasonable business model for which a buyer agrees. Please keep this aspect aside.

Let me simply this -
1. Seller - S wants to sell his car - C, he asks dealer - D, D finds Buyer - B, and the money simply has to be paid to D (now please don't tell me, this is a messy deal and I must only deal with S directly).
2. B paid Amount - A to D, took possession of car C, papers signed from A etc. Got the Car transferred and everything is okay.
3. Few months later, a Competent Authority of Govt - CAG asks B (because of whatever reason), to explain why he paid amount A to D. How can that be answered with proof, that is the simple question.

--- Skit Start ---

CAG: Mr. B, please tell us why did you pay amount A to Mr. D?

B: Sir, I bought Car C belonging to Mr. S, and found this deal through Mr. D and because of their prior agreement, I was supposed to pay only to Mr. D.

CAG: Merely your stating this does not prove anything, you could have given the money to Mr. D for anything. Please produce a valid documentary proof. We can see that C was transferred from S to B (documented) and we can see that B paid A to D (documented) but we cannot see how A was meant for payment to S towards purchasing C (no such documentation).
Mr. B, are you not aware your should have done *this*.

B: Er... what is *this*? I did not know.

CAG: Not knowing *this* is not proof of innocence. You should have done *this*, are you daft, which world do you live in? You are under suspicion, as you cannot provide valid proof. Your accounts shall be ceased and movement restricted. Please do not leave the city without informing the local PS and visit the PS once a week to mark your presence. You will also be investigated/harassed/questioned etc until this matter is fully resolved.

B: Let me go back in time and seek help regarding *this* at Team-BHP. Woosh (back in time, posting this query).

--- Skit Stop ---

[Mr.Boss]

Originally Posted by Kaboooooom

CAG: Merely your stating this does not prove anything, you could have given the money to Mr. D for anything. Please produce a valid documentary proof. We can see that C was transferred from S to B (documented) and we can see that B paid A to D (documented) but we cannot see how A was meant for payment to S towards purchasing C (no such documentation)

For one of my used car purchase, I had a delivery note from the dealer mentioning the amount he received (including the DD number) from xxx (myself) for trading the car [Veh. No.] on [Date] entered on their pre-printed delivery note along with seal & signature.

I hope this should be a sufficient proof, which many dealers don't follow.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by Mr.Boss

For one of my used car purchase, I had a delivery note from the dealer mentioning the amount he received (including the DD number) from xxx (myself) for trading the car [Veh. No.] on [Date] entered on their pre-printed delivery note along with seal & signature.

I hope this should be a sufficient proof, which many dealers don't follow.

A delivery note is part of the standard paperwork along with the sale receipt.

Quite often in the name of / signed by the original owner though.

Usually what owners do when selling their car to a dealer is to just sign a blank copy of the paperwork. The dealer or some subdealer simply fills in the final buyer's details once the car is sold and taken to the RTO.

[Mr.Boss]

Originally Posted by hserus

A delivery note is part of the standard paperwork along with the sale receipt.

Quite often in the name of / signed by the original owner though.

I had both those copies of delivery note, one from the registered owner mentioning the vehicle reg number and date of sale and the other from dealer including the receipt of amount I paid.

[ReluctantRebel]

A quick question about procedure followed in chennai RTOs. Is a printout of forms 28,29,30 accepted or should one get these forms from RTO office? Reason I ask this question is that i dont want to do all the hard work only for the RTO people to say that a printout is invalid.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by ReluctantRebel

A quick question about procedure followed in chennai RTOs. Is a printout of forms 28,29,30 accepted or should one get these forms from RTO office? Reason I ask this question is that i dont want to do all the hard work only for the RTO people to say that a printout is invalid.

I've used printouts many times in the tn07 thiruvanmiyur RTO

The RTO itself doesn't sell forms, there are poorly printed copies of the form sold outside by agents, that's all.

Nothing stops you from getting your own forms - you can download fillable forms (eg in word doc format) from here - http://finotax.com/form/rto/

[ReluctantRebel]

Originally Posted by hserus

I've used printouts many times in the tn07 thiruvanmiyur RTO

Thanks for the confirmation. I had an experience with the registrar office and thought it might be similar in RTOs as well. I will print the forms myself and submit them.

[vipulbatta]

Planning to sell my Pajero Sport 4x2 AT. We completed our loan a few days back and the RC card is with RTO for hypothecation termination. What is the process of selling the car while the RC is not available (though I have the acknowledgement). As per RTO, the RC will come to my address in 30 days.

Thanks in advance.

[fundubytes]

Hello everyone,

I am doing a personal research on understanding the mindset of a car owner when he thinks of selling his car. So thought of what better than talking and discussing with you all. I would be glad if you participate and exchange thoughts.

1. When we buy a new car, it's a matter of pride. But when we think of selling it off what matters? I know of one fact is higher resale value (money matters). Is there anything else like time, convenience of closing the deal?

2. What are the triggers and what goes on in his head while taking this decision?

3. When we post on websites like OLX, sometimes there are no reply, sometimes, you have to deal with multiple prospects which is exhausting.

This is another tangent:-
Also, if you noticed OLX's recent campaign - 6 months breakup challenge. Which was telling to "breakup" with the old unused items at home. Now "breakup" as a communication tells that just get rid of it, but it was not thinking from other perspective that to sell someone has to buy it. No one would be interested to buy stuff which another person has dumped off.

Does this also matter when you think for selling off your old car. I remember a friend of mine hid the details of her car's problem and sold it off (got rid of it). I don't know what happened with the person who bought it. Is it a common human behaviour?

4. What about those websites which buy old cars on your behalf and then sell it to dealers basis an auction. So fetching higher selling price for your old car.

5. If a car owner is buying a new car, is he most inclined to sell his old car to the dealer as exchange offer? Or he will go the extra mile of selling it first and then buying a new car? But in that case there will be a delay.
OR
is it buying a new car first and then selling your old car?

6. Is pre-monsoon a good time to sell your old car? Or during monsoon? Or post monsoon? Would people hesitate to sell their old car and buy a new one during rainy season and they would wait for it to end? Because rainy season means extra care, extra maintenance and repair cost if damage happens?

Let's discuss. Would love to know your thoughts.

Best,

[libranof1987]

Perhaps these two threads discuss in detail:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/owning...ml#post4191971

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/owning...ml#post4198062