bought my first car - a '68 FIAT 1100D

ronk · 12th October 2007, 00:05

well first issue with the car... was coming back from a restaurant .. dropped my friend home, and pop goes the brakes..
there was a burnt smell coming for a while.. only after the brakes pop do i realise that it was a problem with the front right brake.. thats where the smell was coming from..some fumes too later.. any idea why?? i'm not sure about the brake system for this car, but why would the brakes loose pressure if one set of the brakes were fouling?
all this while i was thinkin the engine was overheating because of the radiator being blocked!!!! cha.. but well, these are the lil things i bought this car for!!!
dropped it off at my friends place..

1100D · 12th October 2007, 00:32

Pop goes the brakes meaning? Did the pedal go down the floor or the brakes are jammed. Which wheel was the smell coming from. Did you check the rim temperatures of each wheel.

Burning smell from brakes usually come after the shoes of any particular wheel are jammed against the drum. Could be many causes, non-standard calipers, rusted return spring or even a plain jammed wheel cylinder.

If all the wheels were hot then you might look at the master cylinder.

But welcome to the world. She is a living car! You will love her more living with her initial problems, but once she gets reliable, you will know every rant she will express.

planet_rocker · 12th October 2007, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronk

there was a burnt smell coming for a while.. only after the brakes pop do i realise that it was a problem with the front right brake.. thats where the smell was coming from..some fumes too later.. any idea why?? i'm not sure about the brake system for this car, but why would the brakes loose pressure if one set of the brakes were fouling?

get your car's brakes checked .

did you park / drive through flood water - the brake shoes gets a layer of "black thingy" and this hampers braking. if you pour water on the drums it will "smoke" - was the car pulling towards the right?

Edit: huh! 1100D n I posted at the same time.

ronk · 12th October 2007, 15:17

haha.. yup.. front right wheel.. major burnt smell.. the brake pedal bacame loose.. went to the floor.. no braking effect anymore!!!!
no handbrake also!
the tyre side was smelling burnt, im guessing the brake pads were jammed for whatever reason. will get it done today.. will also have to get the radiator serviced.. lots of sedimenst.. water whitish!!

ronk · 12th October 2007, 15:18

oh.. nope.. didn't drive through water at all.. car was pulling majorly to the right before the brakes went.

Stanher · 12th October 2007, 18:20

Apologies if I seem to be 'hijacking' this thread!

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYRUS43

good buy buddy...the grill that v16 is talking about is very difficult to find (i got 3) and is made by cromodora italiana, Italy

Hey Cyrus, er- could I have jus one, pretty

I badly need one for my '65 Delight which should've had that kind of grille, but I could only manage to find the later aluminium one (which probably Ronk's car should've had).....!

1100D · 13th October 2007, 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronk

haha.. yup.. front right wheel.. major burnt smell.. the brake pedal bacame loose.. went to the floor.. no braking effect anymore!!!!
no handbrake also!
the tyre side was smelling burnt, im guessing the brake pads were jammed for whatever reason. will get it done today.. will also have to get the radiator serviced.. lots of sedimenst.. water whitish!!

Please read this with patience.

My guess is since the pedal went down the floor, there is no pressure in the brake lines as well. Check on the tyre insides for brake oil splurge. You may even check (from the front right wheel arch) the master cylinder for leaks.

But whatever it is, leak in the brake lines did not cause this. It was an after effect (my basis of saying this is the heated up wheel, which is a very big lead)

It could be jamming of the wheel cylinder which pushed the wheel cylinder pistons out but could not retract the shoes back. This extra volume created by the pistons staying out maybe the reason for the lost brake pressure. (However this will not cause a Total pressure loss and the pedal be completely free)

This could also be caused by a loose/improper brake liner, jamming against the drum, exerting an inward pressure on the wheel cylinder bucket/pistons. The additional fluid pressure could cause any of the components, from the bucket to the flexible hoses to give away resulting in a hydraulic leak causing the pedal to hit the floor.

This is the technicality of it, but there is another aspect which plagued our car with brake problems. Aftermarket wheel-cylinders/mastercylinders etc woudlnt ever worked. After a long deliberate suffering I tried Mr Behram Dhabar's advice of converting to the Brakes India (TVS Girling) system.

The Wheel Cylinders/master cylinder/ banjo bolts the three flexible hoses (yes they are different too, and your mech will tell you that the old hoses will still work, contrary to what has already been experimented with) and even the metal brake lines were replaced.

When you consider, the price of the front wheel cylinders Rs350ish, the rear Rs 250 or so,the Master Cylinder around 8-900 and very little moolah for the brake lines. That isn't much to pay to have a TVS made braking system on this car.

Ever since then the problems vanished. However, check the drums and calipers. Complete liner+caliper set for all 4 wheels are available these days.

ronk · 13th October 2007, 11:05

oh..thanks a lot 1100d . that was really informative.. well, i'll try getting the tvs set.. just got my 2nd salary , so low on budget...
so can i replace the brake system slowly? like if there is a problem with the front cylinders, i'll probably change those now.. and replace the master cylinder etc later on, maybe next month? what sya??
are the brakes otherwise quite unpredictable?

Cyrus43 · 13th October 2007, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronk

oh..thanks a lot 1100d . that was really informative.. well, i'll try getting the tvs set.. just got my 2nd salary , so low on budget...
so can i replace the brake system slowly? like if there is a problem with the front cylinders, i'll probably change those now.. and replace the master cylinder etc later on, maybe next month? what sya??
are the brakes otherwise quite unpredictable?

ABSOLUTELY NOT...brakes are very vital to a car ronk...you dont want your car to get totalled do you????
wait till you have the money and install new brakes system..

for details on complete brake systems, p.m. my dad...BEHRAM.DHADHAR.....he will give you a detailled analysis....

ronk · 15th October 2007, 13:34

oh thanks cyrus.. well.. i'll have to wait then for a total replacement of the brake system.. lets see..

planet_rocker · 15th October 2007, 18:12

Low on budget and need to sort out the braking system? .... aaah! sound quite familiar. either save for getting the entire work done at one go - or - go ahead with the works slowly - trust me - you will not regret the "kharcha-s" (expenses).

easiest way to see if the brakes are jamming the drums: (as told to me by my guru

)

...jack up the front wheels and see if the wheels are rolling uniformly....without stopping abruptly...then give each wheel a roll apply brake to make it slow down but not come to a stop.....then check if the wheel is rolling freely to a stop on account of bearing friction only.

Doing this yourself is going to be difficult for the left wheel, but a gentle tug on the brakes is what Iis required - and whatever you do on the right wheel note the amount of pressure needed for the job....then apply the same pressure for the left wheel. However you will need another person as the wheel movement is better for you to watch rather than anyone else -

also make it a point to check the front & rear drums regularly - and check the temperature of the drums - the drums should be evenly warm (not hot) after an average of 5-10kms of drive (with regular braking) - if any one of the drums is abnormally hot - get it checked.

AFAIK - the front shoes are generally "oversized" and the rear ones are regular sized. if i am wrong - "mera fiat-guru" please correct me.

the older brake-cylinders were supplied by API and the newer ones by TVS Girling (brakes india)

the brakes are not unpredictable - you need to have "working brakes" in order to keep her going.

just make sure that you take care of her

1100D · 16th October 2007, 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYRUS43

p.m. my dad...BEHRAM.DHADHAR......

What? You have forgotten your Dad's name??!!

But the brakes india stuff does not work with the Api stuff and vice versa. You may try anything in stop gap (like adressing the individual wheel cylinder), but on the long term it will not work. Even in the short term it may not work. Thats because API cylinders are not available anymore (atleast in kolkata and the aftermarket wheel cylinders have so much for production consistency that you have to really hunt around for a bucket-set that will work in it.)

The TVS girling thing though comes as a complete wheel cylinder alongwith the piston/bucket and you need not worry about tolerances as that has already been taken care of at TVS.

mixing and matching brakes are not at all recommended. However caliper/shoes may be handled independently of the hydraulic circuit, but still not recommended.

@Planet, you are on the wrong track, all that information can come in handy to him once he gets his brakes working. His car is stuck with failed brakes.

ronk · 16th October 2007, 11:04

hey ya.. got the front right brake hose blocked temp... to shift the car to my garage.. but.. the car was parked at my place for a day ,and the wheel now got completely jammed!!!

going to cal, will get back and get the brake system repaired properly!

planet_rocker · 16th October 2007, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronk

hey ya.. got the front right brake hose blocked temp... to shift the car to my garage.. but.. the car was parked at my place for a day ,and the wheel now got completely jammed!!!

going to cal, will get back and get the brake system repaired properly!

if you are coming to Kolkata (Cal??) - send me your number via PM and i will help you in sourcing the original TVS Girling parts.

Cyrus43 · 16th October 2007, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1100D

What? You have forgotten your Dad's name??!!

..oops...typo error...

12th October 2007, 00:05	#16
ronk BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 157 Thanked: 51 Times View My Garage	well first issue with the car... was coming back from a restaurant .. dropped my friend home, and pop goes the brakes.. there was a burnt smell coming for a while.. only after the brakes pop do i realise that it was a problem with the front right brake.. thats where the smell was coming from..some fumes too later.. any idea why?? i'm not sure about the brake system for this car, but why would the brakes loose pressure if one set of the brakes were fouling? all this while i was thinkin the engine was overheating because of the radiator being blocked!!!! cha.. but well, these are the lil things i bought this car for!!! dropped it off at my friends place..
	() Thanks

12th October 2007, 00:32	#17
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,096 Times View My Garage	Pop goes the brakes meaning? Did the pedal go down the floor or the brakes are jammed. Which wheel was the smell coming from. Did you check the rim temperatures of each wheel. Burning smell from brakes usually come after the shoes of any particular wheel are jammed against the drum. Could be many causes, non-standard calipers, rusted return spring or even a plain jammed wheel cylinder. If all the wheels were hot then you might look at the master cylinder. But welcome to the world. She is a living car! You will love her more living with her initial problems, but once she gets reliable, you will know every rant she will express.
	() Thanks

12th October 2007, 15:17	#19
ronk BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 157 Thanked: 51 Times View My Garage	haha.. yup.. front right wheel.. major burnt smell.. the brake pedal bacame loose.. went to the floor.. no braking effect anymore!!!! no handbrake also! the tyre side was smelling burnt, im guessing the brake pads were jammed for whatever reason. will get it done today.. will also have to get the radiator serviced.. lots of sedimenst.. water whitish!!
	() Thanks

12th October 2007, 15:18	#20
ronk BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 157 Thanked: 51 Times View My Garage	oh.. nope.. didn't drive through water at all.. car was pulling majorly to the right before the brakes went.
	() Thanks

13th October 2007, 11:05	#23
ronk BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 157 Thanked: 51 Times View My Garage	oh..thanks a lot 1100d . that was really informative.. well, i'll try getting the tvs set.. just got my 2nd salary , so low on budget... so can i replace the brake system slowly? like if there is a problem with the front cylinders, i'll probably change those now.. and replace the master cylinder etc later on, maybe next month? what sya?? are the brakes otherwise quite unpredictable?
	() Thanks

15th October 2007, 13:34	#25
ronk BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 157 Thanked: 51 Times View My Garage	oh thanks cyrus.. well.. i'll have to wait then for a total replacement of the brake system.. lets see..
	() Thanks

15th October 2007, 18:12	#26
planet_rocker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bong-land Posts: 2,323 Thanked: 426 Times	Low on budget and need to sort out the braking system? .... aaah! sound quite familiar. either save for getting the entire work done at one go - or - go ahead with the works slowly - trust me - you will not regret the "kharcha-s" (expenses). easiest way to see if the brakes are jamming the drums: (as told to me by my guru ) ...jack up the front wheels and see if the wheels are rolling uniformly....without stopping abruptly...then give each wheel a roll apply brake to make it slow down but not come to a stop.....then check if the wheel is rolling freely to a stop on account of bearing friction only. Doing this yourself is going to be difficult for the left wheel, but a gentle tug on the brakes is what Iis required - and whatever you do on the right wheel note the amount of pressure needed for the job....then apply the same pressure for the left wheel. However you will need another person as the wheel movement is better for you to watch rather than anyone else - also make it a point to check the front & rear drums regularly - and check the temperature of the drums - the drums should be evenly warm (not hot) after an average of 5-10kms of drive (with regular braking) - if any one of the drums is abnormally hot - get it checked. AFAIK - the front shoes are generally "oversized" and the rear ones are regular sized. if i am wrong - "mera fiat-guru" please correct me. the older brake-cylinders were supplied by API and the newer ones by TVS Girling (brakes india) the brakes are not unpredictable - you need to have "working brakes" in order to keep her going. just make sure that you take care of her Last edited by planet_rocker : 15th October 2007 at 18:31.
	() Thanks

16th October 2007, 11:04	#28
ronk BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 157 Thanked: 51 Times View My Garage	hey ya.. got the front right brake hose blocked temp... to shift the car to my garage.. but.. the car was parked at my place for a day ,and the wheel now got completely jammed!!! going to cal, will get back and get the brake system repaired properly!
	() Thanks