The FIAT 1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 18th June 2010, 08:35

Dear Arun - reliability of steering lock cum ignition switch is extremely poor. Even the Lucar terminals (the flat ones on which wires are soldered) used to come out. That's why you can see that the terminals are soldered on the switch. We did this as a last resort. Murugan was the engineer working on this "project", Subhash Phadnis was the electrical guy and as usual I was the test engineer. If you can lay your hands on an original SIPEA ANTIFURTO switch, grab it with both hands at whatever price the shopkeeper asks for. It comes in a dark blue box, the key is slightly shorter than the regular one. I recently got one for 3000 rupees. I have kept it very safely. It will go on my left hand drive car MH01YA3238. In its day, it was available for 600 rupees, but not any more. The guy who had it knew the value (original + Italian) so I had no choice. Another way is to mount a regular switch on the instrument panel, parallel wire both the switches and use it whenever necessary. I had this arrangement in my rally car MMY43. Don't even attempt to repair this switch. Its a waste of time.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

FiatMyLife · 18th June 2010, 08:41

Thank you Sirji.

As you said, I will search for SIPEA ANTIFURTO switch. If not, I will continue with the normal ignition switch. I can put one from scrapyard, but again comes the question of reliability.

ilangop · 18th June 2010, 08:59

When the ign switch in my dad's 118NE (previous car) conked off, I simply picked one from the scrap yard and replaced it. I guess it is still doing good. The car is with my uncle now. The scrap yard guy was quite unaware of how to remove the switch from the steering column. So I had to pick the column as it (bargained and got for Rs 180/-), and resoldered the terminals, cleaned & greased the cone ball-races before fitment. Thats was a nice experience, coz it was a complete DIY during my 12th class vacation.
Could some one explain me the procedure to get the ign switch removed from the steering column, please?

samsag12 · 18th June 2010, 09:05

Hey ilango whats the procedure to remove the below the steering ignition switch from the switch holder. Once i requested the scrapper for the same and he replied that he will break the metal column holding the switch. I walked away as i didn't want a faulty switch.

FiatMyLife · 18th June 2010, 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilangop

Could some one explain me the procedure to get the ign switch removed from the steering column, please?

This is the main reason why I am skeptical of changing the steering column switch. How do we remove this?!

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 18th June 2010, 09:52

Dear Ilangop - HaHa Ha. It is very easy to remove the ignition switch from the steering column. It does not take even a minute and you don't have to break anything. Please read.

In the original SIPEA ANTIFURTO design, there sre 2 nos M5*0.8 threads built into the main body and 2 screws hold the switch in place on the aluminium casing. In the Padmini adaptation, one screw is fitted vertically from the bottom and one screw is fitted inclined at 30 degrees on the RH side. Remove these 2 screws. Now read carefully - insert the ignition key, turn it through 90 degrees (not 180 degrees) and then withdraw the key. In this positiion, no electrical circuit will operate but the key will come out. It is known as "garage position". It is to be used for unlocking the steering column if you want to steer the car within a garage area. Then look for a small hole at the bottom of the mounting bracket, next to the hole from which you removed the vertical screw. Take a 3 mm diameter rod (gas welding rod will do), insert it into this hole and press it. It will press on a spring mounted bracket inside the switch body. This will relieve the radial interference of this bracket with the body. Push the switch axially towards the steering wheel and remove it from the car. Remember that this adaptation will only work in the garage position. If you turn the key more or less, the plunger will not press. You can read "GAR" embossed on the chromium plated body. Now you know what "GAR" means.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

ilangop · 18th June 2010, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Ilangop - HaHa Ha. It is very easy to remove the ignition switch from the steering column. It does not take even a minute and you don't have to break anything.
Please read.
...In the original SIPEA ANTIFURTO design, ... In the Padmini adaptation,...

Sir, that was well explained, but I have 2 questions.
1. Is the procedure same for 118NEs too?
2. Is the procedure same for the JAY made Ign switches?

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 18th June 2010, 11:08

Dear Ilangop - yes, in 118NE also it is same except that the bracket is in sheet metal and the switch is horizontally oriented. There is a hole in the sheet metal bracket just for this purpose. As we located the switch on the left of the steering column in an RHD car, we got a lot of flak but there were layout constraints. If I remember correctly, this layout was done by my colleague Arvind Cuncolienkar & the engineer was N.N.Sawant. Last heard a couple of years back, Arvind was working in Fiat Ranjangaon.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

vkarulkar · 18th June 2010, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Ilangop - yes, in 118NE also it is same except that the bracket is in sheet metal and the switch is horizontally oriented. There is a hole in the sheet metal bracket just for this purpose. As we located the switch on the left of the steering column in an RHD car, we got a lot of flak but there were layout constraints. If I remember correctly, this layout was done by my colleague Arvind Cuncolienkar & the engineer was N.N.Sawant. Last heard a couple of years back, Arvind was working in Fiat Ranjangaon.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Sir,
In my case, the switch make is Jay. The problem i am facing is starter solenoid position contact is not working and in IGN, the contact is not constant. For jay also, does the removal procedure is same? I have got access to excellent skilled people working with locks from whome i can get it repaired.

samsag12 · 23rd June 2010, 20:12

Can anybody throw some light on how to check the oil sensor of the S1 brake fluid box(the one in pic) without attaching it on car. I am not able to understand how this thing works as the sensor is detachable and there is no immediate contact to it from the box.

ilangop · 24th June 2010, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsag12

Can anybody throw some light on how to check the oil sensor of the S1 brake fluid box(the one in pic) without attaching it on car. I am not able to understand how this thing works as the sensor is detachable and there is no immediate contact to it from the box.

Got a multimeter or a continuity tester at home? Connect the multimeter / continuity tester terminals to the ends of the wires coming from the brake oil reservoir. There should be continuity at very low oil level or no oil.
Seems the reservoir is empty now, so the swicth will be in closed position now. Tilt the reservior upside down to open the switch and lose continuity. I doubt if a new swicth will be avilable in the market now-a-days. These days you get the switch as a integral part of the filling cap. You may try to suit such a cap (with swicth) in case the switch malfunctions.

Sujith1100 · 28th June 2010, 23:37

B.D Sir/Adheesh:

help!

Karthik M.B(Karthik1100)'s Padmini had severe heating issues. So he put a new Radiator. Problem was not solved. So he changed the head to a new Senator one. Problem still persisted. Today he got the timing chain and gear changed and set the timing right. To his shock, the problem is still not solved!!

The car is heating to the max!

docel · 28th June 2010, 23:45

How do you know it is overheating ?
Is the Temperature gauge OK ?

Either its the temp gauge or something seriously wrong in the engine.
Long periods of static parking leads to rust particles clogging the engine. This will prevent water circulation and cause overheat. The other problem could be a dead waterbody.....
I hope he has a mechanic who knows Fiats !

adheesh · 28th June 2010, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sujith1100

B.D Sir/Adheesh:

help!

Karthik M.B(Karthik1100)'s Padmini had severe heating issues. So he put a new Radiator. Problem was not solved. So he changed the head to a new Senator one. Problem still persisted. Today he got the timing chain and gear changed and set the timing right. To his shock, the problem is still not solved!!

The car is heating to the max!

These were some very extreme steps taken for the overheating issue. Senator head is of no use and the timing chain operation is a very delicate one (most mechanics think they know the procedure but its far from the correct one). Please provide us with some background. Is the cooling system consuming water ? Till then please check these elementary things.
1. Hose integrity
2. Malfunctioning radiator cap (it should be 7psi only and from either RD or Tecil)- This is most likely.
3. Also check if the cylinder block water channels are clogged (open up the drain plug on the block and see if water freely flows out) - This is a huge possibility if water is not being consumed.
4. Check the ignition timing is at 10degrees (the center mark of the 3 marks which are together) with the engine running at 720 rpm and distributor vacuum disconnected (and blocked). If the timing chain operation is correct the engine should start in half a self at this setting.

5. Check for jammed tappets. Set them to 0.25mm ie. 8thou (temporarily)

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar

Karthik1100 · 29th June 2010, 00:04

@docel, i changed the temperature union also. if i drive 100+kmph speed for about 15kms, temperature shows 125 deg., water spills or vapor comes out from radiator, sound of the engine changes. lacks performance. it was not parked for long time since i bought it. the previous owner parked it for 4-5months, it doest matter coz, i changed the head, valves, timing chain, cam sprocket, water pump, radiator to new. even air fuel mixture and dwell angle is also reset. i dont need to change the hose pipes as i have the very good quality one. and i made sure no leakage of water. fan belt is also stiff enough, no friction of brakes until we apply. before it was good when i went to goa and madikeri, now i cant drive my car more than 30kms without a stop.

18th June 2010, 08:35	#736
DHABHAR.BEHRAM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MUMBAI Posts: 3,060 Thanked: 5,353 Times	Dear Arun - reliability of steering lock cum ignition switch is extremely poor. Even the Lucar terminals (the flat ones on which wires are soldered) used to come out. That's why you can see that the terminals are soldered on the switch. We did this as a last resort. Murugan was the engineer working on this "project", Subhash Phadnis was the electrical guy and as usual I was the test engineer. If you can lay your hands on an original SIPEA ANTIFURTO switch, grab it with both hands at whatever price the shopkeeper asks for. It comes in a dark blue box, the key is slightly shorter than the regular one. I recently got one for 3000 rupees. I have kept it very safely. It will go on my left hand drive car MH01YA3238. In its day, it was available for 600 rupees, but not any more. The guy who had it knew the value (original + Italian) so I had no choice. Another way is to mount a regular switch on the instrument panel, parallel wire both the switches and use it whenever necessary. I had this arrangement in my rally car MMY43. Don't even attempt to repair this switch. Its a waste of time. Best regards, Behram Dhabhar Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 18th June 2010 at 08:37. Reason: add info
	() Thanks

18th June 2010, 08:41	#737
FiatMyLife BANNED Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Namma Bengaluru Posts: 118 Thanked: 9 Times	Thank you Sirji. As you said, I will search for SIPEA ANTIFURTO switch. If not, I will continue with the normal ignition switch. I can put one from scrapyard, but again comes the question of reliability.
	() Thanks

18th June 2010, 08:59	#738
ilangop BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 992 Thanked: 903 Times View My Garage	When the ign switch in my dad's 118NE (previous car) conked off, I simply picked one from the scrap yard and replaced it. I guess it is still doing good. The car is with my uncle now. The scrap yard guy was quite unaware of how to remove the switch from the steering column. So I had to pick the column as it (bargained and got for Rs 180/-), and resoldered the terminals, cleaned & greased the cone ball-races before fitment. Thats was a nice experience, coz it was a complete DIY during my 12th class vacation. Could some one explain me the procedure to get the ign switch removed from the steering column, please? Last edited by ilangop : 18th June 2010 at 09:00.
	() Thanks

18th June 2010, 09:05	#739
samsag12 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: City of Nawaabs Posts: 1,624 Thanked: 242 Times View My Garage	Hey ilango whats the procedure to remove the below the steering ignition switch from the switch holder. Once i requested the scrapper for the same and he replied that he will break the metal column holding the switch. I walked away as i didn't want a faulty switch.
	() Thanks

18th June 2010, 09:52	#741
DHABHAR.BEHRAM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MUMBAI Posts: 3,060 Thanked: 5,353 Times	Dear Ilangop - HaHa Ha. It is very easy to remove the ignition switch from the steering column. It does not take even a minute and you don't have to break anything. Please read. In the original SIPEA ANTIFURTO design, there sre 2 nos M5*0.8 threads built into the main body and 2 screws hold the switch in place on the aluminium casing. In the Padmini adaptation, one screw is fitted vertically from the bottom and one screw is fitted inclined at 30 degrees on the RH side. Remove these 2 screws. Now read carefully - insert the ignition key, turn it through 90 degrees (not 180 degrees) and then withdraw the key. In this positiion, no electrical circuit will operate but the key will come out. It is known as "garage position". It is to be used for unlocking the steering column if you want to steer the car within a garage area. Then look for a small hole at the bottom of the mounting bracket, next to the hole from which you removed the vertical screw. Take a 3 mm diameter rod (gas welding rod will do), insert it into this hole and press it. It will press on a spring mounted bracket inside the switch body. This will relieve the radial interference of this bracket with the body. Push the switch axially towards the steering wheel and remove it from the car. Remember that this adaptation will only work in the garage position. If you turn the key more or less, the plunger will not press. You can read "GAR" embossed on the chromium plated body. Now you know what "GAR" means. Best regards, Behram Dhabhar
	(1) Thanks

18th June 2010, 11:08	#743
DHABHAR.BEHRAM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MUMBAI Posts: 3,060 Thanked: 5,353 Times	Dear Ilangop - yes, in 118NE also it is same except that the bracket is in sheet metal and the switch is horizontally oriented. There is a hole in the sheet metal bracket just for this purpose. As we located the switch on the left of the steering column in an RHD car, we got a lot of flak but there were layout constraints. If I remember correctly, this layout was done by my colleague Arvind Cuncolienkar & the engineer was N.N.Sawant. Last heard a couple of years back, Arvind was working in Fiat Ranjangaon. Best regards, Behram Dhabhar
	() Thanks

23rd June 2010, 20:12	#745
samsag12 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: City of Nawaabs Posts: 1,624 Thanked: 242 Times View My Garage	Can anybody throw some light on how to check the oil sensor of the S1 brake fluid box(the one in pic) without attaching it on car. I am not able to understand how this thing works as the sensor is detachable and there is no immediate contact to it from the box. Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

28th June 2010, 23:37	#747
Sujith1100 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: BANGalore Posts: 729 Thanked: 20 Times	B.D Sir/Adheesh: help! Karthik M.B(Karthik1100)'s Padmini had severe heating issues. So he put a new Radiator. Problem was not solved. So he changed the head to a new Senator one. Problem still persisted. Today he got the timing chain and gear changed and set the timing right. To his shock, the problem is still not solved!! The car is heating to the max!
	() Thanks

28th June 2010, 23:45	#748
docel BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: 12.930900N 77.58940E Posts: 62 Thanked: 11 Times	How do you know it is overheating ? Is the Temperature gauge OK ? Either its the temp gauge or something seriously wrong in the engine. Long periods of static parking leads to rust particles clogging the engine. This will prevent water circulation and cause overheat. The other problem could be a dead waterbody..... I hope he has a mechanic who knows Fiats ! Last edited by docel : 28th June 2010 at 23:48.
	() Thanks

29th June 2010, 00:04	#750
Karthik1100 BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 608 Thanked: 580 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (5)	@docel, i changed the temperature union also. if i drive 100+kmph speed for about 15kms, temperature shows 125 deg., water spills or vapor comes out from radiator, sound of the engine changes. lacks performance. it was not parked for long time since i bought it. the previous owner parked it for 4-5months, it doest matter coz, i changed the head, valves, timing chain, cam sprocket, water pump, radiator to new. even air fuel mixture and dwell angle is also reset. i dont need to change the hose pipes as i have the very good quality one. and i made sure no leakage of water. fan belt is also stiff enough, no friction of brakes until we apply. before it was good when i went to goa and madikeri, now i cant drive my car more than 30kms without a stop.
	() Thanks