[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by Bulldogji

This because H M used to only spot weld, that to in minimal places. By this time , the original dye had become very thin , making pressing of new body shells a problem. Lets not forget corrosion issues.

This only spot weld regimen was followed by HM not for the Nova alone but even in 197 it was so and had to be full welded after removing the engine and all. Therefore two strategies were followed by owners and mechanics. One as you said and the second weld after running the car for some kilometers. And mind you welding is the root cause for subsequent corrosion how best you apply anti corrosive paints.
Even in Marutis (I mention maruti because it is the first new gen car in India), repaired and welded portions used corrode too soon afterwards.

Another practice followed for Ambys and Fiats the application of a layer of grease inside all the door pads so that water accumulation would not cause corrosion of doors bottoms.

Yet another method to fight corrosion, especially the running boards, was to seal weld and fill waste oil inside. Even oil barrel cap units s were fitted at the rear ends of running boards to even make yearly replenishment.

But health-wise this is harmful as lubricants especially used oils are carcinogenic.

I know some who make running boards, fender ends and door lower portions with brass sheets as a sure shot way to fight corrosion.

Originally Posted by mahesh.kolary

They were 18(mm) gauge'

18 gauge is exactly 1.22mm thick in metric system.

Regarding plate and sheet thicknesses developments in steel making technology has resulted in lesser thick say 20 gauge (even 22 gauge at some locations) as they are of equal strength to conventional or old age 18 gauge thickness.
The following doc, though old makes interesting reading.
http://www.nsc.co.jp/en/tech/report/pdf/6401.pdf

[anjan_c2007]

To add some more facts about the quality of the automobiles after the mid 1960's till the dawn of liberalization in 1991, foreign exchange was scarcely available to automobile industries for upgrades and technological innovations. R&D at their companies was almost nil. R & D meant saving costs and wiping out the little goodies on the original design. Ambassadors did away with the clock in 1965, as perhaps HM must have thought "In India who wants to see the time? Who is punctual? The clock was for the Britishers so it must go."
The government made it mandatory to indigenise by 1965 and use minimum to nil imported parts on all categories of automobiles.
During every budget taxes (central excise followed by state excise) on cars and cigarettes would be raised.Cars were the most favourite whipping boy (or is it girl?) for policy makers.
Worst of all, the price control regime was in play and no manufacturer of any automobile could raise the ex-factory price under any circumstances. The price list was approved by the government. Any increases would need another approval, that would be impossible to come along.
So we had cars costing around Rs 15,000 to Rs 19,000 (depending on the make) right from the mid 1960's till 1975 or so.
A Lambretta was priced at around Rs 3100 in 1967 (my father bought one). Again in 1971 it was the same price that we paid for our second scooter. In 1960 also the Li 150 cost nearly the same.
The result - quality deteriorated. And as many have said here, the manufacturers were the least bothered to innovate as all products they made would sell and even have long waiting lists.
In 1975, the Supreme Court ruled in favour of the manufacturers in a civil suit that they had filed to contest the price control regime.
Very soon after that judgement, the automobile prices moved northwards. The Ambassador Mark 3 costing around Rs 20,000 was soon priced at Rs 32,000 without any perceptible change in quality.
The Lambretta Li 150 cost moved to Rs 4800 and so on for all other automobiles.
I am sure the period between 1965-1991 (other than the entry of Maruti in 1984 with a BANG) has gone down in history as the worst phase for our automobile industry, when we stagnated, remained on a plateau, soon reached its cliff portion, preparing for an imminent fall. We largely lost out on time and pace with the world, to march ahead and become a major auto hub, all due to faulty policies both by the government and the auto industry.

[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by ajay99

You can still see many ambassadors in the bordering villages of Trivandrum and Kanyakumari district.

True. I saw plenty of Ambassador taxis also at Kozhikode and the difference is that almost all are perfect and clean, shapely ones.
A view of the taxi park near the Medical College.

[mahesh.kolary]

Originally Posted by rajeev k

18 is based on standard steel wire(& plate) gauge thickness and 18 is not in mm. This is the SWG thickness of plates or sheets used for the body shell components.
The drum yiu have referred is in fact not tar barrels but oil or grease barrels which are heavier and is less prone to corrosion and was extensively used for tinkering work in that era. Forming shapes is a tougher job with this barrels which have to be cut and straightened first.

Thank you Rajeev. Do you know of any place in Ekm where I could source a Mk1 grill?

[anjan_c2007]

The Landmaster originally had the "H" logo in silver on a red background, at the centre of the steering.Very, very few Landmasters have such a logo well preserved.



Source The Hindu, Feb 17,2011

For my Landmaster, I found it almost impossible to procure one.The next easiest thing was to order one from the Morris Cowley and Oxford Owner's Club based in Oxford, UK. The parcel came and I found that it was the logo of the Morris Oxford Series II, with the muscular Morris Bull taking centre stage. At the given slot, this fits beautifully along with its fastening clip- common DNA . However, I may soon get the "H" logo. Will reveal more about it later after its fitted.



My car with the Morris logo



A Series II from Quality First, UK


As some fellow bhpian said that its easier to get a Morris logo but very, very difficult to get the original, India specific "H" logo.

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

The Landmaster originally had the "H" logo in silver on a red background, at the centre of the steering.Very, very few Landmasters have such a logo well preserved.

Its actually silver on a blue background. Even the bonnet logo originally has a blue background to the H logo, though most cars today sport it in red. Ditto for Hindustan 14.

[nileshdias]

Hi Guys,

Very interesting discussion here. Over the years the prices of some commodities and consumables decline with respect to inflation. Cars and Electronics are one example. That is how so many of us can afford to own them now. However this is universal and happens around the world.

Is the deterioration in quality a India specific phenomenon?

I was reading ownership reviews of some new cars in forums and everywhere people are complaining of quality.
I find our cars are generally as expensive as rest of the world. So why the compromise on quality?

Nilesh
Nilesh

[jagadeesh.b]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Its actually silver on a blue background. Even the bonnet logo originally has a blue background to the H logo, though most cars today sport it in red. Ditto for Hindustan 14.

Even My Landmaster has the H logo with Blue Background.

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by jagadeesh.b

Even My Landmaster has the H logo with Blue Background.

I would request you to please post its picture and also other pictures of your car are most welcome.I think its very rare to find one these days.

[rallygeek]

After going through the whole thread I got more or less confused. I would like to start like this.

My Dad has a blue car, the kind of blue which is not vintage but look pretty good on an Ambassador. The Blue book or the RC book says my car is a Mark 4 and year of registration is 1978. I thought mark 4's came in around 1979.

We bought the car in Jan 1990. The car however came with a computerized registration number starting with WB 40. The original number is from Chandigarh as far as I remember. It has a column shift gear, floor based dipper switch and steering from nova(even though we retained the original steering).

This car also has a hole just above the front number plant from where we can kick start the vehicle.

The dash is that of mark 4 ( i guess) but the meter board is made by Federal and meters by autometer.

The engine went a overhaul in 2008 and is a smooth mill. it is a HM made 1489 cc BMC petrol.

I am attaching pics taken just after when it came from the overhaul and a little polish in 2008. It is still our daily car. Princely price of petrol has grounded it from roaming around frequently though

Can any body help me is which model of ambassador is this since sometime my dad say it was a mark III if he remembers. I believe it went through some body surgery even though there are no marks of it anywhere in the car.

Also can someone re register a car as mark 4 because it has a mark 4 shell in it?

This one right after coming back from overhaul.The paint is same since 1990, no new coat no repaint just some polish a year.


The below pic is taken during a trip to my native place.

[jagadeesh.b]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

I would request you to please post its picture and also other pictures of your car are most welcome.I think its very rare to find one these days.

Hi Dr. Anjan,

Kindly find below the photos of the steering. Sorry for the delay.

Thanks & Regards,
Jagadeesh

[amit V8]

Originally Posted by rallygeek

My Dad has a blue car, the kind of blue which is not vintage but look pretty good on an Ambassador. The Blue book or the RC book says my car is a Mark 4 and year of registration is 1978. I thought mark 4's came in around 1979.

We bought the car in Jan 1990. The car however came with a computerized registration number starting with WB 40. The original number is from Chandigarh as far as I remember. It has a column shift gear, floor based dipper switch and steering from nova(even though we retained the original steering).

The dash is that of mark 4 ( i guess) but the meter board is made by Federal and meters by autometer.

If the year of registration is 1978, then I guess its a Mark 3 fully modified to be a Mark 4. However what strikes me is the position of the winshield wipers as mark 3 had opposite types compared to your ones.

The other identifier could have been the tail lights but those are aftermarkets as well. The current grille is from the Deluxe version which cam a bit later. So it is quite obvious that it had been added later.

Please post some pictures of the interior.

[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by rallygeek

The Blue book or the RC book says my car is a Mark 4 and year of registration is 1978. I thought mark 4's came in around 1979.
This car also has a hole just above the front number plant from where we can kick start the vehicle.

Can any body help me is which model of ambassador is this since sometime my dad say it was a mark III if he remembers. I believe it went through some body surgery even though there are no marks of it anywhere in the car.
This one right after coming back from overhaul.The paint is same since 1990, no new coat no repaint just some polish a year.

The early Mark4s came with the same instrument cluster as the Mark3 ie., the instruments were mounted in a recess. Fuel gauge, ammeter and speedo with the four block warning lamps.
From the picture of your car it is sure that many changes were made in it like the grill which is from the early 90s. The earlier grill had the vertical and horizontal slats with higher gap in between. This one is the Nova grill.

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by jagadeesh.b

Hi Dr. Anjan,

Kindly find below the photos of the steering. Sorry for the delay.

Thanks & Regards,
Jagadeesh

Thanks Jagadeeshji. These will be the first ever clear pictures of the Landmaster steering logo (direct from an owner or rather a happy owner ) on teambhp.
Many friends were asking me for the 1760 cc Ambassador petrol engine details. I found an advertisement here for the Mark 3 which had the option of a more powerful 1760 cc engine during 1977-78 for a short period.The extra cost as compared to the 1489 cc petrol engine was Rs 1925=63 paise. What a difference?



(would request Mods to please, if rules permit, allow this advertisement to remain here)

[josejoseph]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Many friends were asking me for the 1760 cc Ambassador petrol engine details. I found an advertisement here for the Mark 3 which had the option of a more powerful 1760 cc engine during 1977-78 for a short period.The extra cost as compared to the 1489 cc petrol engine was Rs 1925=63 paise. What a difference?

Thanks very much Dr. Anjan for posting this. Was never aware of this. Do you have further details of the engine?

- Jose