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-   -   Landmaster Project - Part II (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/post-war/43330-landmaster-project-part-ii-7.html)

Bent wheel bolts!!! Wow, what an innovation. :Frustrati

Thank God that there were no problems on the way back to Cochin.

Good thing you didn't ask for a limousine. They would've s t r e t c h e d it.

:Frustrati

Dear Steeroid and all - I do not understand this "wheel bolt bending" syndrome at all. As far as I know, the pitch circle diameter (pcd) of the Ambassador / Landmaster wheel rim as well as the Gypsy wheel rim is the same at 139.7 mm (means 5.5 inches, it originally came from England so dimension was in inches - 5.5 multiplied by 25.4 = 139.7 mm). Even Mahindra vehicles had a 139.7 mm pcd which subsequently got changed to 160 mm pcd. So where is this great question of bending wheel studs? (by the way, it is studs, not bolts). I have seen numerous Ambassadors running all over the place in South India sporting Gypsy wheel rims. Even the centre spigot diameter (the hole in the centre of the wheel rim is known as spigot) matches. Some nice stainless steel cup type wheel caps are also available all over the place in South India. Obviously everybody would not bend "wheel bolts". It seems to be very clear that somebody knows nothing and is trying to pull a fast one on you. Be careful. You have suffered enough. Also the so-called cross member below the bell housing will not help, your NVH levels will shoot. It is made so badly, I can only pity you. I hope finally BML2302 comes out well after all the effort you have put in with good intentions to present it to your father. I request you to please PM me and give me all details. I will guide you all in totality.

Please accept my best personal regards,

Behram Dhabhar

I was also having the same doubts about the wheel studs being bent, didn't the mechanics at Cochin see this when they redid the leaf springs, housing?

Now let us refer to an expert who is neutral on this saga and reduce the undercurrents that were stirring!

Well, I will see for myself on the day after. The gentleman who said it is the old man who knows very well what he is doing - once I speak to him in person I will have more details.

The car is doing trial runs now. Is reportedly running smoothly and they're ironing out small issues after every run. Should be ready for delivery tomorrow.


The cross-member thingy was not on my car - that was muneemmk's Mark3-becomes-Avigo.


The mechanics at Cochin did mention something about wheels needing some serious work but they didnt want to do it there as they had been told to do some specific pieces of work and besides it was a garage that is always busy with routine car work - this would've taken too much of their time to be worthwhile as a job.

Steeriod viewing this thread after a long time. Was pleasantly surprised to know that the Landmaster has been made roadworthy and will be fit and fine soon.
Happy Driving. Please post more pictures of the now fit Landy.

Update: Since the question was asked, I spoke to the old man again.

The rear wheels were okay, but the bolts on the front wheelhub had been bent in to fit the Gypsy wheels. He says I can see for myself when I get there as the holes for on the steel wheels are damaged - they are now slightly elliptical on the outside because of the pressure of the bolts.

So yeah to clear the confusion - the wheelbolts HAD in fact been bent inwards. I do not know the PCDs of various vehicles and wheels, nor do I know whether the front wheelhubs were original for sure (FYI front drums were 6" while the rear featured 9" drums when it was delivered from Bangalore) but if the old man says the bolts have been bent, they have indeed been bent. He says I can see for myself and decide whether I want to replace the wheels in front.

BTW everything went fine till this evening but the powersteering hose sprung a leak and therefore the car is back in the garage waiting for a new hose tomorrow.

Thanks anjan - have never met you or even interacted much with you on the forum but it was ultimately your link that got me all the spares I had been looking for. The box is on its way with the original steering wheel, trafficators, meter console, switches, interior lamps and tail lamps, though unfortunately not in time for me to carry it with me tomorrow.

Someone asked about the milling on the steering - yes the old man confirms that he will have to rework the milling to take the older steerings (Land or Mk1/OHV) but he is sure he can find a way around the issue anyway.

The work is progressing beyond our belief.Power steering hoses tend to work lose or brake off because it's a cut and paste job, the shops which normally sell the hydraulic hoses usually have equipment to crimp it so that it's a perfect fit, but we could get that done if any more problems arises, anyway expecting some Onam Pics , long time no see BML. Would love to see some new pics.

I am sorry to say that you could be wrong here. The older ambassadors drums would not accomodate the gypsy disc. You had to (1) weld the holes shut and re-machine the holes and fit new studs to accommodate the same. In the late 80's you could (2) replace the drums with new drums with the gypsy pcd. I know this for a fact because I had done No.1 first and then replaced them with number 2.
Also I am not one to go by mechanics recommendations alone. I saw for myself the difference and sat with the lathe guys to re-machine the drums.
The older Mahindras on the other hand had the same pcd as the gypsy.

Thanks Jyobeb - I learnt something new today, that Ambassadors had two types of brake drums with different PCDs. That means that all Ambassadors with Gypsy wheels have the "new" drums on them. Therefore it is now required that BML2302s drums be commonised to the new type but as there are talks of front discs coming in, I hope this would be automatically taken care of. Thanks once again.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Actually not two types. The drum with the gypsy PCD was an after market retrofit. The Coimbatore Auto Garage (CAG) were the pioneers in manufacturing these drums (with gypsy pcd) and made it available in the market for those desiring to fit gypsy wheels without having to depend on local lathes. (which was always a dangerous proposition, in my opinion)
However, I have no idea what PCD the present Ambassadors come with.
Mr Behram, I salute your modesty. I only wish I have a tenth of your knowledge and experience.

I remember CAG, and had sat over couple of nights while some mods including the "Gypsy rims" were installed there. :D Never realized they were the pioneers at this!

Since steering hoses continued to be an issue (they were looking for steel-braided hoses, but with Onam round the corner they hadnt been able to get hold of any), the car was not delivered.

We saw the vehicle and the work carried out is top-notch. The engine has been very neatly remounted and the Gear Box housing has a fair amount of clearance w.r.t the steering rack and the body therefore noise levels should be significantly lower (it was touching the steering rack AND parts of the body earlier).

Disc brakes are from the Contessa and the wheels now have support in the centre (as opposed to the earlier setup where the centre was blank and the wheel was supported just by the - famously bent - bolts with no centre support).

The power steering assembly looks really neat and looks shiny and new (not that it matters) despite having been picked up 2nd hand.

They had to cut a section of the dash (part of the lower lip) to mount the steering wheel straight.

Parts from the UK have arrived in Dubai and will be shipped out today. The agreement with the old man is that he will now hand over the car only after fitting all of these including the dash, steering, etc after the parts reach Kerala. So we're looking at about 1 week from delivery of spares, which should be 10-11 days from now.

We will also be switching the ported/polished head from Engine 2 (GTO's engine) to Engine 1. No switch of carbs, though - Engine 1 now has Hitachi carbs, as opposed to the Mikunis on Engine 2.

Big thanks to Vijay (prabhuav) and his driver Kumar for transporting 2 engines, 2 gearboxes and 3 very fat people in his Scorp from Bangalore to Shoranur. We had a blast, though!