17th August 2009, 23:59
| #196 |
| BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Rajasthan..
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18th August 2009, 00:07
| #197 | ||
| Senior - BHPian  | Quote:
Yes the 680 was produced but this is unlikely one of those rare produced cars (only 6 were made according to my limited sphere of knowledge about this but i am open for correction but not from Wiki. Yes this is a K as in Supercharged model but that is not under dispute at all. One can see it is supercharged. Quote:
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18th August 2009, 00:23
| #198 | |
| Senior - BHPian  Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mumbai
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At the Cartier event she was also not accepted as a 680. There were discussions, but those guys know their onions. We are  So, mods please rename the thread correctly. Cheers harit | |
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18th August 2009, 13:38
| #199 |
| BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DELHI
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18th August 2009, 21:33
| #200 | |
| Senior - BHPian  | Quote:
The K in the name stands for kurz or short to denote a shortened chassis as this car evolved from the 24/100/140 The 6.8 litre Mercs were most famous in the S version that was launched sometime in 1928. This car not only featured the more powerful engine thanks to higher displacement and dual carb manifold but the engine was set back and the chassis lowered improving the car's handling dramatically Now its highly likely that Mercedes was tweaking the 630k heading toward its final iteration in the form of the fabulous S. Its possible that with improvements to the Roots supercharger they managed to tweak the 630's engine to 180 bhp from 160. What puzzles me is that if this engine is a 6.8 litre then even the unblown bhp should rise purely on account of higher displacement. Why still at 100? Should have gone up to 120 as it later appeared as a 120/180 in the S One possible explanation is Merc engineers were being cautious with the uprated blower and possibly lowered the compression on the engine maintaining 100 bhp unblown. I don't know this is pure guesswork. There must be some explanation as to why the bhp remained at 100 despite displacement going up. The simplest explanation would be if someone clarified this is a 630k with a more powerful blower accounting for the 20 bhp hike But when I chatted Ranjit at the Cartier show he mentioned the bore measured out to 680 specs. I am personally not sure what the car is, as such I know very little about Mercs. But it would be nice to get a letter from Mercedes acknowledging the car's history and authenticity. After all if the car is as rare and significant as claimed why not have the stamp of Mercedes' approval that it is a 680k Its possible that most of us here at TBHP are farthest from the truth. But a request to those who know for a fact this is a rare one off 680 k please do share some more data. Unfortunately the couple of books I have on Mercedes do not mention such a version and no where on the net is there even one reference to the existence of 680k's. The one reference pointed earlier still doesn't explain why this car has a 100 bhp engine If the car was sold with the current body with a 6.8 litre engine with numbers stamped on a plate I'm sure Mercedes would have records of it. Can't someone access those and settle this issue once and for all? Perhaps Mercedes India could help Last edited by DKG : 18th August 2009 at 21:37. | |
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19th August 2009, 02:19
| #201 | |
| Distinguished - BHPian  Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ann Arbor
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Page 209 also happens to mention that the "SS" was owned by the Maharajas of Bhopal & Alwar. Wonder where the Alwar car went. Did not see Berar, though I am pretty sure they had one. | |
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19th August 2009, 09:41
| #202 | |
| Senior - BHPian | Quote:
Knowledge as you know Prem is invariably second hand ! I am no expert to say with certainty what the K stands for but almost all reading material that came my way refered to it as Kurz. I'll pull out more book references but offhand I found the same reference on page 60 of Great Cars of the 20th Century as Kurz One article on the net titled Blown Mercs categorically states: They were surpassed by a car from their own ranks, the 24/100/140 hp Mercedes-Benz K built from 1926; its two predecessors – renamed Mercedes-Benz 400 and 630 – remained in the range for the time being after the merger of DMG and Benz & Cie. in 1926. In contrast to the supercharged eight-cylinder Mercedes-Benz cars launched at a later stage, the “K” did not stand for ‘supercharger’ (Kompressor in German) but stood for ‘short’ (kurz in German) to refer to the car’s 35 centimetre shorter wheelbase. ref article in autospeed.com That said Beverly Rae Kimes is a highly regarded historian and she may have found more information supporting her assertion that its actually Kompressor. I admire her work on Packards and see no reason to doubt her statement on what the K stands for. Come to think of it globally so many people seem to have different opinions about so many things I guess its perfectly natural that here at TBHP people are debating the authenticity of this particular Mercedes. If it weren't for the fact that unblown this Merc puts out 100 bhp we could have easily accepted this is one of the very few 6.8 litre K's made before the fabulous S emerged When I last ran into the great grandson of Prince Hamidullah I asked if he could help me trace the whereabouts of the Merc and the Bentley and right there he called Pataudi to see if he remembered and sadly we drew a blank. I doubt if anyone in the family even knows such amazing cars existed in their ancestor's home. I am inclined to believe these two outstanding cars may not have survived. It would be a miracle if they reappear after disappearing from the scene for so long. Sad, but I guess to most of them it was just a passing fancy which they tired of easily and either gave the cars away or their estate sold them off at scrap value How about some wishful thinking, a retired English major from the British era dies at 95 and both these beauties are found in some remote village in England in a barn completely camouflaged by heavy overgrowth over the past 60 years. Cars found all intact !!  Last edited by DKG : 19th August 2009 at 09:50. | |
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19th August 2009, 12:51
| #203 |
| BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Rajasthan..
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19th August 2009, 22:43
| #204 | |
| Senior - BHPian | Quote:
Sat I think its possible that Merc engineers intentionally detuned compression to enable the blower to push out 180bhp from the engine. So while the unblown 630 was also 100bhp this car too put out 100 bhp on account of marginally lowered compression. And as you rightly said the dual carb setup of the S engine resulted in a 20 bhp unblown power hike On the S engine the engineers had apparently used a gear driven roots supercharger running at thrice the crank speed enabling the 180 bhp from the engine. Perhaps this car has a similar mechanism. I vaguely remember Mr. Tutu Dhawan refering to a wild supercharger sound under hard acceleration This car may be sold pretty close to the release of the S as possibly the engine blocks being cast and bored were intended for the new S. If you observe the histories of many cars, I am thinking especially the Jag SS1's, often a mfg would have unsold chassis from a previous model and they would use them up for different models. Merc could very well have had a few left over K chassis which they simply slotted the S engine with the single carb manifold and cleared their stock. The touring body makes sense as Merc didn't want to advertise the car was for sports driving, although it came with a beast of an engine. I think it was sometime in 1928 that the switch to S occured Thanks Sat for the clarification. Last edited by DKG : 19th August 2009 at 22:49. | |
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20th August 2009, 19:19
| #205 |
| BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Rajasthan..
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24th August 2009, 05:13
| #206 | |
| Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ann Arbor
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24th August 2009, 11:32
| #207 |
| Senior - BHPian  Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Abu Dhabi (for now)
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24th August 2009, 17:33
| #208 |
| Senior - BHPian  | Classic MB certificate Find below details of how you can get a certificate for your beloved MB. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ml#post1447473 |
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25th August 2009, 00:22
| #209 |
| Distinguished - BHPian  | |
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28th August 2009, 17:22
| #210 |
| Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mumbai
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| Attached is another 630 which is in New Zealand, shown on the site of Hans Compter. Enjoy! About this being a 680, well it not. Period. If you were aware of the discussions going on at the Cartier event, you would know about the situation. And the matter would have been cleared up long ago. As a 630. Somehow this question keeps coming up. I also happened to chat with the new owner about this. A few years ago the story circulating was that Mercedes Benz did not have the records of this series, so they could not confirm the history. I believe that the car had a lot of mechanical problems and was not working for years. The aluminium engine was seeping oil as the block or whatever had become porous. But hats of to the guy who got her to work, I believe that it was Mr. Tutu Dhawan. I was told that even some guys from Mercedes had come to Delhi to see the car. The only point which disturbs is the mention of HUBRAUM 6740 LEISTUNG PS 100/180 on the label. But if it was so clear, then why is there a confusion even today? And not only among us on this forum, but even at international events. There is much more to it than meets the eye, including the present state of the engine number. If getting a certificate was so easy, then why was it not obtained before? The puzzle is not only about the identity, but also about the handling of the identification process. So let us keep on wondering Cheers harit Last edited by harit : 28th August 2009 at 17:25. |
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