[DKG]

Julian I didn't know some Ghosts came with shutters. How were these cars different visually from the early Phantoms? Any distinguishing features?

[Julian UK]

Originally Posted by DKG

Julian I didn't know some Ghosts came with shutters. How were these cars different visually from the early Phantoms? Any distinguishing features?

Some UK Ghosts had 18 vertical shutters but the Phantom I had 16.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by Julian UK

Some UK Ghosts had 18 vertical shutters but the Phantom I had 16.

Are there any in India? Also was this new Ghosts delivered with the shutters or a case of people having their car's look upgraded with shutter once the Phantom was launched? Any pictures we could see?

[Alvis]

Originally Posted by Julian UK

Here's some screen shots. There's not much of the college, only the gates.

Thanks Julian, what I assumed was that it was a video taken from a home movie format of much much earlier days.
Anyway thanks for the pics, and yes that is a Bahawalpur car, one from the 2006 auction with new Bahawalpur registration (BR) of the same year.

[Julian UK]

Originally Posted by DKG

Are there any in India? Also was this new Ghosts delivered with the shutters or a case of people having their car's look upgraded with shutter once the Phantom was launched? Any pictures we could see?

There are Bahawalpur Ghost photos on the thread which have the shutters

Originally Posted by Alvis

Thanks Julian, what I assumed was that it was a video taken from a home movie format of much much earlier days.
Anyway thanks for the pics, and yes that is a Bahawalpur car, one from the 2006 auction with new Bahawalpur registration (BR) of the same year.

Alvis, if you have any information about what has happened to the other Bahawalpur cars after the auction it would be very interesting. I hope they have stayed in Pakistan...

[travancore]

Originally Posted by speedy

Yes the car belongs to Amir and it comes to my place for work. it was bought by Amir's father. i have not asked Amir the exact history of the car so i cannot confirm it being a Jodhpur car or from another princely state. Amir also owns a Mg TC.

According to The RR Continental by Raymond Gentile:

Continental Unit # 281 (last listed)
Chassis # 62-UK
Original Engine # QY-15
Steering: F (I assume that is the rake)
Off Test: 1-8-35; Sold: 5-6-35
Original Owner: Maharaja of Jodhpur, Jodhpur
Body: Gurney Nutting; Streamline Coupe

At the time my book was pulished (1980):
Original Body, Owner: H.H.Jetha, Bombay, India (assume that is Amir's father)

The writeup on the car says " The last PII Continental Chassis produced was 62-UK which was off test on Aug 1, 1935. It was fitted with a Gurney Nutting "Streamline Coupe" (not the H.R. Owen design) for its new owner, H.H. the Maharaja of Jodhpur (India). The car still resides in Bombay, India. The last entry on the sales data card showed the car owned by Alpha Motor Co. of Bombay, India in 1965"

[travancore]

Originally Posted by iraghava

Deepak, what about the Mahroon beauty behind the green Gurney Nutting??

I claim to be no expert here, but the car in the garage (behind the Gurney Nutting RR) in DKG's post # 605 looks more Pierce Arrow-ish than a Bentley to me. I have been wrong before!!! DKG, maybe the source of the photo can confirm!

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by travancore

I claim to be no expert here, but the car in the garage (behind the Gurney Nutting RR) in DKG's post # 605 looks more Pierce Arrow-ish than a Bentley to me. I have been wrong before!!! DKG, maybe the source of the photo can confirm!

TC - See post # 149 by DKG here:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-1...-india-10.html

[Steve Stuckey]

This is the second Vice-Regal Phantom III that went to India (3AZ47 went to the Viceroy - see post #418 in this thread). The chassis left the RR factory on 24 June 1937, fitted with engine C98A and steering at the high C rake. It was set up for use in India.

The chassis was sent to Hooper & Co. by rail from Derby on the day it came off test. It was fitted with a limousine body (number 8882) to design 6273; this design was the first of the standard Hoopers on the Phantom III (there were 20 bodies to this design), but this body was different in that the roof was raised 3 inches higher than normal. It had no interior heater but an electric fan, the flagstaff and small light to the roof were the same as on 3AZ47; golf clubs and an umbrella were accommodated under the front seat, and there was a single offside spare wheel; there were no wheel discs. The body cost 700 pounds and the total for the car was 2,122 pounds.

The car was painted in black throughout, with a fine white line to the mouldings. The upholstery was in black leather to the front seat and fawn cloth to the rear compartment; the woodwork was in dark walnut.

The car was ordered from RR on 19 May 1937 by the India Store Department in London. It was for use by the new Governor of Bombay, Sir (Lawrence) Roger Lumley (27 July 1896 - 29 June 1969). He was Governor between 18 September 1937 and 24 March 1943. Before that he had been a Member of the English Parliament and had been a Junior Minister. He succeeded his uncle in 1945 as the 11th Earl of Scarsborough; he was Lord Chamberlain to Queen Elizabeth between 1952 and 1963.

The car was completed on 16 August 1937 and was shipped to Bombay on 4 September aboard the ss "Manela". In 1951 RR records show that it was owned by Mr J G L Spence in India, and until recently this was the last I had heard of it. But in posts 592-593 we discover that the car is alive and well in Calcutta.

This photo is from the Charles Bowers archive; he was official photographer for Hooper & Co.

[Julian UK]

Originally Posted by travancore

I claim to be no expert here, but the car in the garage (behind the Gurney Nutting RR) in DKG's post # 605 looks more Pierce Arrow-ish than a Bentley to me. I have been wrong before!!!

Welcome back Travencore!! How was your holiday?
Pierce Arrow?! Interesting!!
I think Iraqhava has also identifed the windscreen and foglight of the Bentley and the established content of this wonderful quality collection in Calcutta, Kolkata? Does anyone at all use the new names KolKata, Mumbai or Chennai? I prefer the old names, and continually see residents using the old names. Which should be used? The old names or the new? There is a potential new debate............ !!!!

[DKG]

Originally Posted by travancore

I claim to be no expert here, but the car in the garage (behind the Gurney Nutting RR) in DKG's post # 605 looks more Pierce Arrow-ish than a Bentley to me. I have been wrong before!!! DKG, maybe the source of the photo can confirm!

It does look like a Pierce Arrow doesn't it? Just from that picture it is a bit difficult to see clearly. However, here is the picture of their awesome Bentley. Just by the lights and badges etc on the car in the garage behind the green RR looks to be this Bentley. I'm sure they would have mentioned a Pierce Arrow if they had one. Will double check though

From what I remember of the owner once telling me apart from the green Gurney Nutting RR, they have this Bentley, a gorgeous cut door coupe RR by Vanden Plas and a RR corniche. A relative has the PIII also featured. Since this conversation took place as we were chatting near my Packards he would definitely have mentioned a Pierce Arrow. Will double check though.



BTW Julian its still Bombay, Poona, Madras, and Calcutta for me. Some habits do die hard There are some who do take offence when you don't use the new names. I think the old names will die with our generation. Here in Hyderabad I still call two old prominent roads as James Street and Kingsway instead of the typical M.G. Road and Rashtrapati road one is supposed to use. What's next, TBHP forum chat only in Hindi? Hope I'm not around to see that day. Thankfully my love for India does not hinge on such issues

[DKG]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Superb, DKG!

Julian says it was originally Faridkot, but the red plates appear to start with a J. The Bentley too. Do you know where this car went later?

Karlos it just struck me that the J would correspond to Jalpaiguri as the family descend from the Nawab of Jalpaiguri.

That said the provenance of these cars according to Julian is recorded as original owner of the Bentley to be Prince Mauzamjah of Hyderabad and Maharajah of Faridkot for the green RR

My father was born 1929 and he never remembers seeing the SS, the Duesenbergs or this Bentley on the streets of Hyderabad. He does remember the PIII convertible of Azamjah which went back to England with Princess Durrehshavar, later to be sold. I've also met a gentlemen older than Dad who confirmed sitting in the coupe Duesenberg when it was used by Princess Niloufer.

Chances are the Jalpaiguri Nawab picked up the Bentley very early on? It would be interesting to corroborate all this with the family

[Julian UK]

Originally Posted by DKG

Princess Durrehshavar

An article from the Telegraph newspaper
Mavi Boncuk: Article | Princess Dürrühsehvar of Berar

[Steve Stuckey]

Originally Posted by Julian UK

An article from the Telegraph newspaper
Mavi Boncuk: Article | Princess Dürrühsehvar of Berar

Thanks for this article Julian. My history of 3CP116, the wonderful Berar Phantom III, will be with you this weekend!

[travancore]

In case anyone is interested, the ex-Kashmir RR PI (17EX) goes on auction Aug 15th!

Courtesy: Bonhams & Butterfields
Sale [COLOR=#0000ff]16133[/COLOR] - Quail Lodge, A Sale of Exceptional Motorcars and Automobilia, 15 Aug 2008
Quail Lodge Resort and Golf Club, Carmel, California
Lot No: 357*
The ex-Maharaja Bahador of Jammu and Kashmir - Streamlined Experimental
1928 Rolls-Royce Phantom I Torpedo
Coachwork by Jarvis of Wimbledon
Registration no. CH-7763
Chassis no. 17EX
Engine no. 25EX

"The Maharaja kept 17EX until 1932, when he is recorded as having sold the car to one Ram Narain of Kanpur, in the state of Uttar Pradesh. He only retained 17EX for a few months before parting with it to a prominent connoisseur of very exclusive automobiles, P. K Mitter of Calcutta, who also owned a Duesenberg and an Isotta Fraschini. He drove 17EX for some eleven years before selling it to Greta Devi of Allahabad in 1944. A West Bengal registration document dated 1956 indicates a transfer of ownership between one Sukosh Banerjee and Bimal Kanti Ghose, both of Calcutta, but the next long-term owner was the Raja Saheb of the remote princely state of Bhadri, in the north central province of Madhya Pradesh.

Some ten years later, around 1967, news of the car’s existence reached the ear of a keen collector named Protap Roy, Maharajkumar of Santosh, who already owned a 1928 Hooper-bodied Phantom I and a Mercedes-Benz 540K, eventually persuaded the Raja Saheb to part with 17EX, which was in poor shape “after years of being locked up in a dark garage”. Part of the deal was a request for Roy to help the Raja Saheb, a keen dog lover, find a pair of corgis!

Roy restored and enjoyed 17EX, but eventually the car had to be sold to finance the purchase of a new addition to his collection, and in 1976 it was acquired by British dealer Christopher Renwick, who arranged to have the car shipped to Europe, where it was sold to two Italian collectors, Dr Veniero Molari, a Fiat executive, and Giulio Vignale, nephew of the famous carrozziere.

During the 1990s the car was entrusted to Gianni Pena, a modeler for the leading Torinese coachbuilders, for restoration, which was still ongoing when 17EX was acquired by the current custodian, Victor Muller, CEO of the Spyker supercar company. Since restoration was completed, the car has appeared at Pebble Beach as part of the celebration of the 100th anniversary of the Rolls-Royce company in 2004 and in 1996 won the Trofeo Rolls-Royce for the most elegant example of the marque at the Villa d’Este Concours."