[DKG]

Originally Posted by Steve Stuckey

DKG: the roof behind the C pillar folds back onto the body; it doesn't come off completely. Here's the other T&M PIII landaulette, 3BT135, with the roof folded back.

From the picture the roof looks to have metal sheet in it? Or is that just the gloss off a vinyl stretched over a frame? Was trying to visualise how a metal one piece rear roof could fold in. I guess it would have to be a collapsible vinyl roof?

The landaulette style would have been patronised primarily by heads of state, I'd assume, so their "subjects" could have a good look as they drove by in a procession? I wonder if any non-royals/state head would have bought such cars.

Thanks for the picture of the second T&M car.

[Julian UK]

Does anyone know much about early ventilation systems?

[DKG]

Originally Posted by Julian UK

Does anyone know much about early ventilation systems?

Ahh so after all I am not the only nutcase to plan a toilet in the camper I am building. This guy had it in his limousine!!! This is something

BTW can't quite figure out the second device you refer to. What is it? One RR for India did have a toilet bowl installed right? And another had a wash basin?

[karlosdeville]

Some more interesting anecdotes from Harit.

Further to my note on the Rolls, your link 451, please refer link 411 + 458. This is the same Chatterjee Wraith in my earlier note. It was restored by Solanki in Mumbai and only sent away to Pune for painting as that guy had done the owners other car. This car was earlier black, before that white and still before that some shade of green. From Navnit it had gone to Solanki for various reasons, I think that one reason was change of ownership.
Please refer to link 461. This must have been the same Lagonda Pesi Shroff. Now look at the background of the 1st picture. Do you recognize the old Taj Mahal Hotel and the Hotel next to it which had a road running between them? This Hotel, I forget the name, was acquired by Taj, torn down and the new wing was built here also swallowing up the road. The name of the Hotel is on the tip of my tongue but is not coming out. I know this because I have a few pictures of other cars in the same era and vicinity. Just another piece of historical trivia.

[V-16]

I know of three 1947s. I know two to be Silver Wraiths, one of them a LWB, previously belonging to one of my friends and sold to someone at Rajkot. I have been told it is undergoing restoration at Indore.
The other was a SWB, off white coloured, used to be parked at Madhuli building at worli belonging to a relative of the Singhanias. This was also sold off to a collector in Calcutta. The third which I believe to be another wraith of the same era was being restored in Navnit motors a while ago. I saw it apart being restored so I believe it to be a late 40's Wraith.
Then there was Adi Dubash's mothers car an early 40's, cream coloured, which was bought by a very close friend and parked behind panels in an obscure shop at chor bazar for want of documents.
That car sadly, was exported out of the country for a handsome sum a few years ago.
One Landaulette coupe I remember seeing in Delhi in Hanuman road. Bought by my cousin's neighbour for a song from somewhere in Rajasthan, this Maroon and Black coupe was something else.
I remember "Kuku Uncle", as we fondly called him, showing us the car and letting us sit in it around early 80's. I have not seen it hence. Anyone have an Idea re the whereabouts of any of these?

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by Julian UK

Good sleuthing on the Silver Ghost.

We can now almost confirm that ORM 437 is indeed the same car in question, it just struck me that a Mayurbhanj Ghost in Delhi is regd ORM 436.

[Julian UK]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

We can now almost confirm that ORM 437 is indeed the same car in question, it just struck me that a Mayurbhanj Ghost in Delhi is regd ORM 436.

They were both Mayurbhanj cars
55EM 1924 S Series Hooper saloon Mayurbhanj ORM 437
118MG 1921 O Series Windovers tourer Mayurbhanj ORM 436
A shame to see chrome on 118MG and later P100 headlights on 55EM

[Roger OZ]

I 'snapped' this shot at the Udaipur City Palace museum in November 1981.


As I recall, the Twenty (sans radiator shutters) was the only motor vehicle in the museum at the time. Next to it was a placard describing the car as "Rolls-Royce Model, Body by Malter, Body by Humber"!

My curiosity aroused, after first making sure that nobody was looking I stepped over the surrounding barrier and surreptitiously lifted the already unlatched offside bonnet to discover the chassis number - which turned out to be GLK21.
A few minutes later I was amused to hear the museum guides explain to visitors that this car (GLK21) was fitted with hand controls because of the Maharana's physical handicap - obviously confusing it with 64H9!

Does anybody know how this Jodhpur-delivered car ended up in Udaipur?

[Steve Stuckey]

Our next car in the list of Phantom IIIs in India is 3BU76.

This chassis left the factory on 31 December 1936 (the last of the '1936' cars!), and had engine T18H and E type steering. It had been designated for use in India. On 15 January 1937 the chassis was sent from the RR London depot at Lille Hall to the coachbuilders Barker & Co.

Barker built a sedanca de ville on the chassis, fitted with a spare wheel to each side. The car was finished in pale blue with silver-paint side panels. The upholstery was in blue leather to the front and blue cloth to the rear; it had side-facing occasional seats, and black Purdah glass to the rear windows. The interior was "lavishly equipped".

The car was registered with English number DYK487, and was delivered on 24 June 1937 (5 months in the building!). On 25 September it was shipped to Bombay on the ss "Cathay", so it may have been used in England for a few months.

The order for the car was placed with Barker & Co. by the Maharaja Sir Man Singhi Bahadur II of Jaipur (21 August 1911 - 24 June 1970); he was the 38th Maharaja and succeeded on 7 September 1922. Other RRs and Bentleys I know that he owned were: Silver Ghost 33AU (Barker tourer), Twenty GAK60 (Barker tourer), Bentley 3.5 B174FB (Barker coupe), Bentley Mark VI B199AJ and Bentley R Type B218UM.

It seems the car was sent to England when the Maharaja died; it was put up for auction in London on 4 November 1970 (but did not sell at a bid of 2,900 pounds), described as in totally original condition with 20,000 miles on it. The car was then for sale by a couple of London dealers in 1970-71 (Motor Sport Dec 1970 and July & Oct 1971). Eventually it was sold at auction at Beaulieu in July 1972. It was bought by Hon. Alan Clark (a Minister in Margaret Thatcher's government) and is believed still to be owned by his estate.

The photo of the car in its original colours is from Frank Dale & Stepsons; the photo of the car repainted is from Alan Clark.

[Julian UK]

Wonderful Steve, so much less funereal than many of them, I think the original paint looked better. It looks like the purdah glass has gone and the front bumper has lost its curvature.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by Julian UK

and the front bumper has lost its curvature.

Looks like a shadow from a front number plate or something. It may not have been altered?

[Julian UK]

Originally Posted by DKG

Looks like a shadow from a front number plate or something. It may not have been altered?

Maybe, the photo's from a different angle. A magnificent car.
Meanwhile the block and heads fill up with aluminium hydroxide silt as they slowly eat themselves from the inside out and sometimes the heads collapse.

[karlosdeville]

Harit has some more to add after reading the last few posts.

I have gone through the Rolls thread. Interesting are the PIII's. I do not know the car nos, but I can tell something about 2 PIII's which have apperaring in the thread.
Vohra, a good friend of mine and a real car buff had worked abroad in his shipping business. He came back sometime in the 1980's or so and having some money purchased some nice cars. Unfortunately he could not devote enough time and later on he was again abroad and the cars suffered. He had a 1st lot which went to Indore on some kind of exchange deal and then a second lot which also went to Indore on another peculiar deal. He had a BMW 328, Auburn, Jag X's, Lagonda, Daimler & Rolls and I am writing about 2 Rolls PIII.
One car was the Dongre car as I have already mentioned earlier. The other was the Lord Montague (LM) car, MHM 1919. Please check, it could have been MHN also but my memory says MHM.
The Dongre car was saved from an auction by dealing directly with the owner. The LM car was spotted and bought in Delhi. During one of his business trips he saw a covered car from his hotel room, checked it out and bought it. Then it came to Mumbai and he stored this car along with a 1920's Silver Ghost woody in his basement. I remember going in the night to his home to see the cars. Then the LM car was given for restoration. It landed up in a workshop near French bridge. Slowly parts were lost as he had to focus on work and was away. One fine day he organised for all his remaining cars to be sent to Chennai for storage. One photo of Exoticars link 469 apparently taken from some balcony shows some Rolls's lying in a compound in very bad condition. Later on these cars were sent to Indore and the Dongre car suffered some massive damage on one side during transport. In link 464 second pic there is a picture of a PIII looking very sad. DKG comments that this car is like this in the 1970's, in fact this was like this in the 1980's. This is probably the LM car, but could be the Dongre car. You check it out but most certainly it is one of these two as there were only two PIII's involved.
One must rmember that over the years of shifting and lying in variuos garages for restorations these cars lost a lot of their trims and then when you think that these cars have been restored to a reasonably good and complete condition, how many parts Indore has had in his stock to get the job done

And this on AP 10 D 8044.

Some comment on the links 467 etc.
I met Ramesh Shah in the 1990's and he wanted to build a vintage car collection. Unfortunately he lost patience, sold off some good cars, those undergoing restoration were left to rot and he packed away the Rolls, later took it out, got it moving for his sons to enjoy.
While we were building up his collection, an ad appeard in the times for a Rolls. The person was from Calcutta and linked to Ranjit. I was out, so Mr. Shah met this guy and bought this Rolls. Actually, another car was offered for sale but by the time we got to them it was sold to Coimbatore. I suspect that is the last car in link 467.
If you look closely at the 2nd and 3rd pictures, you will see a black Cadillac. This is a 1970's or so Calais, also bought by Mr. Shah. It was used by the American consulate in Chennai. It is now in Mumbai but in a bad shape. Mr. Shah had also bought a Bentley RJD101. but passed it on to ...............

I actually have pictures of that Caddy as well, let me dig them out.

[Julian UK]

Originally Posted by Roger OZ

I 'snapped' this shot at the Udaipur City Palace museum in November 1981.
Attachment 28425

As I recall, the Twenty (sans radiator shutters) was the only motor vehicle in the museum at the time. Next to it was a placard describing the car as "Rolls-Royce Model, Body by Malter, Body by Humber"!

My curiosity aroused, after first making sure that nobody was looking I stepped over the surrounding barrier and surreptitiously lifted the already unlatched offside bonnet to discover the chassis number - which turned out to be GLK21.
A few minutes later I was amused to hear the museum guides explain to visitors that this car (GLK21) was fitted with hand controls because of the Maharana's physical handicap - obviously confusing it with 64H9!

Does anybody know how this Jodhpur-delivered car ended up in Udaipur?

Welcome to the glorious chaos Roger,
Very interesting to finally see the first available photo of RR 20hp GLK21 in Udaipur back in the 80s which you posted in Preaclarum, it now had a make over albeit without radiator shutters.
A warm welcome from all to the man to consult about Sri Lanka Rolls-Royces in depth.
I'm sorry I can't help on the Jodphur to Udaipur transfer. Lets see..

[V-16]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

I actually have pictures of that Caddy as well, let me dig them out.

but I remember three Caddilac Calais-es in Bombay. One was a Green, owned by a certain Mr. Dhirubhai Ambani owner of Vimal Sarees and one could see this car parked a few feet around Roxy Cinema wher his small showroom was situated for many many years.
Then there was a Dark Blue 1972, owned by Yours Truly's father
We had the car for around 5 years till Mr Maker of Maker Constructions saw it parked in our driveway around 1978 and being a good friend of dad just asked him for the car keys. It then belonged to him
The third one was a deep midnight blue, almost black one and I dont know whom it belonged to.