Classic Rolls Royces in India

Julian UK · 2nd September 2008, 05:25

Hear, hear,
Better a boat tail than no body at all.

Thank you to Steve, Shyml, Park Ward, Karl, Dominator and Tranancore and ...others for your valueable contributions....
.

DKG · 2nd September 2008, 10:38

Here in India there is a tendency amongst owners to distort history. Sometimes the provenance of a car is suitably amended and worse the changes to bodies passed off as original. This car is in a museum thrown open to public. It will get discussed and if altered, commented on. We don't need to hesitate to clarify facts just to appear as being politically correct. This is after all a public forum and if a car is posted here let the historical facts be known. The Nizam's Rolls was altered considerably and I see no reason to not declare the modifications as atrocious. They ruined a most historic car. Let the facts be known please and let this not become a forum where comments are made and withheld selectively. The Poonawala car and its modifications were discussed extensively, elsewhere the K in Delhi has an entire thread questioning its authenticity. So why avoid discussing this car?

PS BTW the last car I heard may be subjected to an alteration by its esteemed owner is the 6 1/2 litre Bentley which apparently is in a rare original condition. I guess we should be thankful that atleast the car remains in India albeit a butchered future?

DKG · 2nd September 2008, 11:25

I am happy to learn that a fellow enthusiast has managed to prevail on the Bentley owner to not alter the present body. I am told if at all the owner proceeds with his plans for a Le Man replica body the original body will be retained intact.

Steve Stuckey · 2nd September 2008, 11:50

Here's a photo of 3AX147 (Maharaja of Indore) from the pages of the V&SCC (Veteran and Sports Car Club of the UK) Bulletin, winter 1963. The name Pesi Shroff I have heard before. What's the chassis number of the Silver Ghost?

Julian UK · 2nd September 2008, 13:17

Lovely photograph Steve, there is another photo of the late Pesi Shroff (who supplied a lot of cars in Mr Bhogilal's magnificent collection) in post #639 on page 43. I am about to return some photos to Raj Seth who was a friend of the Pesi Shroff could I also send him a copy of this photo?

It is good to hear that the 6 1/2 litre Bentley body may be preserved. By the way for any serious enthusiasts out there the car is now confirmed as Chassis no #BX 2422 engine no #DH 2202 Hooper Limousine and was owned by the Grand daughter of the Maharani of Travencore.

DKG · 2nd September 2008, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian UK

the car is now confirmed as Chassis no #BX 2422 engine no #DH 2202 Hooper Limousine and was owned by the Grand daughter of the Maharani of Travencore.

Prem did you know this ? Do document all the cars in the family if possible

travancore · 2nd September 2008, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian UK

It is good to hear that the 6 1/2 litre Bentley body may be preserved. By the way for any serious enthusiasts out there the car is now confirmed as Chassis no #BX 2422 engine no #DH 2202 Hooper Limousine and was owned by the Grand daughter of the Maharani of Travencore.

No DKG, I wasn't aware of this specific car until now!

Julian,
Which car are we referring to....is there a picture / more info on one of the threads / posts ? It just dosen't ring a bell. Thanks

Julian UK · 2nd September 2008, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by travancore

Julian,
Which car are we referring to....is there a picture / more info on one of the threads / posts ? It just dosen't ring a bell. Thanks

Apart from a photo of its chassis number the only photos I have are screen shots taken from the Passage to India film, they are in post #96 of the Bentley thread. I hope to get some more photos in due course. The chassis number is confirmed but I haven't got any definite verification of its ownership history, only a verbal one which has come along with the car. It was bought new by a Sir A Kennedy, delivered in July 1927 according to Bentley records, original reg no YT 6908 Hooper Limousine body no: 6764. Its a ST3 Standard wheelbase 12ft 6in. It isn't a Speed model.
I won't put its photo here.

DKG · 2nd September 2008, 21:14

Speedy could you please request your bro for the pictures of the 6 1/2 litre Bentley and kindly post in the Bentley thread. Also any info on the provenance. Harit kindly fill us in on any info on the life of this car in India

Prem its a gorgeous, very original Bentley. It was in Conoor for years before it was sold sometime last year I think and has come to Delhi. Been sold since too I think. Julian would I be correct in referring to it also as a Top Hat Saloon?

Julian UK · 2nd September 2008, 21:32

Its owner lives in Jaipur but the car is in Delhi for repair. As it's a limousine then it will have a division and 2 occasional seats. The records say 4 seats and 2 occasional seats. It was originally blue with black wings. As it is a limousine I suppose it could be called a "top hat limousine".

speedy · 2nd September 2008, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian UK

Apart from a photo of its chassis number the only photos I have are screen shots taken from the Passage to India film, they are in post #96 of the Bentley thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKG

Speedy could you please request your bro for the pictures of the 6 1/2 litre Bentley and kindly post in the Bentley thread. Also any info on the provenance. Harit kindly fill us in on any info on the life of this car in India

Prem its a gorgeous, very original Bentley. It was in Conoor for years before it was sold sometime last year I think and has come to Delhi. Been sold since too I think. Julian would I be correct in referring to it also as a Top Hat Saloon?

Julian and DKG the Bentley in post #96 of the Bentley thread is in Delhi if it is the same one from Conoor. I have seen the car and i just remember it to be from the south next to OOTY. the car i had first seen it with R.M. when it was bought and then at T.D.'s Garage. i dont know if the Mods would permit me to use names. My brother does have pictures of it. i shall ask him to send them to me. In T.D. garage there were two Rolls Royces. one 1930's PII just like the torpedo body posted on the first page (Maroon). the other is a 20hp open tourer.

DKG · 2nd September 2008, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedy

In T.D. garage there were two Rolls Royces 1927 PI open tourers too.

That reminds me when you are Delhi please do request Tutu Dhawan to join TBHP and participate. Also Ranjit. After all these gentlemen have been involved with vintage cars for years. I had seen Ranjit's K in TD's garage. He had some interesting cars awaiting work.

speedy · 2nd September 2008, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKG

That reminds me when you are Delhi please do request Tutu Dhawan to join TBHP and participate. Also Ranjit. After all these gentlemen have been involved with vintage cars for years. I had seen Ranjit's K in TD's garage. He had some interesting cars awaiting work.

these cars were lying in Tutu Dhawans garage basement as of my last visit to his place. He still has some interesting cars in the pipeline.

I shall ask them to join TBHP and contribute to the knowledge.

karlosdeville · 2nd September 2008, 21:53

Can further reference to a Bentley be done in the Bentley thread?

Julian UK · 3rd September 2008, 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Stuckey

Here's a photo of 3AX147 (Maharaja of Indore) from the pages of the V&SCC (Veteran and Sports Car Club of the UK) Bulletin, winter 1963. The name Pesi Shroff I have heard before. What's the chassis number of the Silver Ghost?

Thinking out loud, it looks like a pre 1st world war car but the front mudguards look later,
Out of curiosity I've put these 3 together, but it can't be #1683 which was exported before the photo was taken and the 3rd car #40PK is a later car (radiator mounted higher etc) so its not either of these two.

I notice on the 3rd car 40PK someone has incorrectly fitted the track rod in front of the front axle, it should/must be behind it!!!

Classic Rolls Royces in India-1683-1911-mysore-1.jpg

photos Steve, conceptcarz and team-bhp

2nd September 2008, 05:25	#751
Julian UK BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 709 Thanked: 254 Times	Hear, hear, Better a boat tail than no body at all. Thank you to Steve, Shyml, Park Ward, Karl, Dominator and Tranancore and ...others for your valueable contributions.... .
	() Thanks

2nd September 2008, 10:38	#752
DKG Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 3,711 Thanked: 1,389 Times View My Garage	Here in India there is a tendency amongst owners to distort history. Sometimes the provenance of a car is suitably amended and worse the changes to bodies passed off as original. This car is in a museum thrown open to public. It will get discussed and if altered, commented on. We don't need to hesitate to clarify facts just to appear as being politically correct. This is after all a public forum and if a car is posted here let the historical facts be known. The Nizam's Rolls was altered considerably and I see no reason to not declare the modifications as atrocious. They ruined a most historic car. Let the facts be known please and let this not become a forum where comments are made and withheld selectively. The Poonawala car and its modifications were discussed extensively, elsewhere the K in Delhi has an entire thread questioning its authenticity. So why avoid discussing this car? PS BTW the last car I heard may be subjected to an alteration by its esteemed owner is the 6 1/2 litre Bentley which apparently is in a rare original condition. I guess we should be thankful that atleast the car remains in India albeit a butchered future? Last edited by DKG : 2nd September 2008 at 10:56.
	() Thanks

2nd September 2008, 11:25	#753
DKG Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 3,711 Thanked: 1,389 Times View My Garage	I am happy to learn that a fellow enthusiast has managed to prevail on the Bentley owner to not alter the present body. I am told if at all the owner proceeds with his plans for a Le Man replica body the original body will be retained intact.
	() Thanks

2nd September 2008, 11:50	#754
Steve Stuckey BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 138 Thanked: 264 Times	More on 3AX147 Here's a photo of 3AX147 (Maharaja of Indore) from the pages of the V&SCC (Veteran and Sports Car Club of the UK) Bulletin, winter 1963. The name Pesi Shroff I have heard before. What's the chassis number of the Silver Ghost? Attached Thumbnails
	(2) Thanks

2nd September 2008, 13:17	#755
Julian UK BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 709 Thanked: 254 Times	Lovely photograph Steve, there is another photo of the late Pesi Shroff (who supplied a lot of cars in Mr Bhogilal's magnificent collection) in post #639 on page 43. I am about to return some photos to Raj Seth who was a friend of the Pesi Shroff could I also send him a copy of this photo? It is good to hear that the 6 1/2 litre Bentley body may be preserved. By the way for any serious enthusiasts out there the car is now confirmed as Chassis no #BX 2422 engine no #DH 2202 Hooper Limousine and was owned by the Grand daughter of the Maharani of Travencore.
	() Thanks

2nd September 2008, 21:14	#759
DKG Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 3,711 Thanked: 1,389 Times View My Garage	6 1/2 litre Bentley Speedy could you please request your bro for the pictures of the 6 1/2 litre Bentley and kindly post in the Bentley thread. Also any info on the provenance. Harit kindly fill us in on any info on the life of this car in India Prem its a gorgeous, very original Bentley. It was in Conoor for years before it was sold sometime last year I think and has come to Delhi. Been sold since too I think. Julian would I be correct in referring to it also as a Top Hat Saloon? Last edited by DKG : 2nd September 2008 at 21:18.
	() Thanks

2nd September 2008, 21:32	#760
Julian UK BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 709 Thanked: 254 Times	Its owner lives in Jaipur but the car is in Delhi for repair. As it's a limousine then it will have a division and 2 occasional seats. The records say 4 seats and 2 occasional seats. It was originally blue with black wings. As it is a limousine I suppose it could be called a "top hat limousine".
	() Thanks

2nd September 2008, 21:53	#764
karlosdeville Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 11,976 Thanked: 18,277 Times View My Garage	Can further reference to a Bentley be done in the Bentley thread?
	() Thanks