Prewar Jaguars in India

terry mcgrath · 13th May 2008, 18:41

Prewar Jaguars in India
You will all have seen the interesting thread started by my colleague John Elmgreen titled Jaguar XK120/140/150 in India.
Whilst we are currently working on this book on XKs, I have personally completed a book on the history of pre war SS and SS Jaguars and post war MKIV and MKV Drophead Coupes back in late 2004. The actual title is “The Forerunners of Jaguar in Australia and SE Asia”. For further details on this book visit Paul Skilleter Books - PJ Publishing Ltd - Jaguar related books and magazines - PayPal enabled
The sales of SS Cars in India started as early as February 1932 and by the start of WWII some approx 105 cars had been dispatched to India including several to Indian Royalty eg Maharnioahiraj Kumar Visheveshwar Singh of the Palace Darbhanca Bihor (someone may care to correct the spelling) and to various English people working in India. It is thought one SS1 Airline was possibly purchased by Jawaharlal Nehru India’s first Prime Minister. Some of the 105 prewar cars are known to survive and it is assumed there are a number still to be found and identified.
I have seen an SS advertised for sale in Bhutan and various reports on an SS100 in India that is known to have taken part in a couple of Classic Car events some 20 years ago.
If any listers can provide details including chassis and engine numbers and photos of any pre war SS and SS Jaguar and post war MKIV and MKV Dropheads it would be particularly helpful for a reprint of the book.
If I can work out how to post pictures I will upload some.

regards terry

karlosdeville · 13th May 2008, 20:04

Well, we do have quite a few SS cars running around in India, but never knew there were 105 sold! Id always heard of the Airline saloon of Nehru but never saw anything concrete. The princely state you refer to is "Darbhanga" in Bihar. The family had some of the best cars in the country.

Here are a few SS in India.

These red and white SS's are regulars at Kolkata rallies over the years. I think a relative of the owner of the red car is on the forum as well.

This supposed SS100 belongs to film actor Jackie Shroff. There is another one under restoration soon to be completed in South India.

Exactly which models come under the term "mark IV"? There are many other early jags surviving, but Ill keep those for after you clarify what you are looking for.

Cheers and all the best on the book. If we can help out, dont forget to put in a good work for Team BHP

terry mcgrath · 13th May 2008, 22:08

WOW thanks or posting these great shots, I have seen the white and red SS1 tourers before although we havn't identiied either of them and if anyone can provide the chassis no, engine no, or body number I can cross them of the list of 105
I havn't seen the pics of the film actor Jackie Shroff SS100's before, I would love to be able to identify this car by its chassis number and I would also love to get further details on the other car in south india
thanks greatly or posting

ramie2400 · 13th May 2008, 23:37

Fantastic pictures matey,these beauties are awesome,for the first time i am seeing them buddy.which place are these pictures from?

karlosdeville · 14th May 2008, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry mcgrath

WOW thanks or posting these great shots, I have seen the white and red SS1 tourers before although we havn't identiied either of them and if anyone can provide the chassis no, engine no, or body number I can cross them of the list of 105
I havn't seen the pics of the film actor Jackie Shroff SS100's before, I would love to be able to identify this car by its chassis number and I would also love to get further details on the other car in south india
thanks greatly or posting

Soory, cant help you with ID numbers. Hopefully someone who can will come along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramie2400

Fantastic pictures matey,these beauties are awesome,for the first time i am seeing them buddy.which place are these pictures from?

The red and white SSs were shot at a Statesman Rally in Calcutta, the white SS100 I shot in Pune at a rally going to Lonavala. I took part in an S type Jag

V-16 · 14th May 2008, 15:26

Another SS owned by my dear friend. Wrong choice of colour though.

On the expressway enroute to Khandala where most of his cars are stored.

terry mcgrath · 15th May 2008, 19:35

Did this car get saved??

Of all the things you expect to find in the Kingdom Bhutan, we think you have listed the horrible Snowman, the Yeti higher than a poor lonesome Cat. So you can understand our astonishment when we received this photo from Lang Kidby - a Peking-Paris motorist located in Bhutan. The Bhutan barnfind is a four cylinder OHV, It may not be the most attractive of all SS Saloons, but the story adds to the flavour. Even more when you believe the story that the car once belonged to the Maharaja of Cooch Behar in Bengal. Unfortunately the car comes without any documents so don't shoot us or Mr. Kidby when the story is untrue. By the way the SS was available for free to somebody who is seriously willing to extract the car from this remote location. Info@PreWarCar.com

HarryWeslake · 16th May 2008, 12:53

I wonder why Terry McGrath has forgotten my '37 SS Jaguar Tourer,
which Karloseville refers to as being restored in "South India".
Jackie Shroff's car looks to be a genuine SS100 so why "supposed"
Karlosdeville? There are 2 Mk IV 1 1/2 L saloons in Chennai also.

karlosdeville · 16th May 2008, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryWeslake

I wonder why Terry McGrath has forgotten my '37 SS Jaguar Tourer,
which Karloseville refers to as being restored in "South India".
Jackie Shroff's car looks to be a genuine SS100 so why "supposed"
Karlosdeville? There are 2 Mk IV 1 1/2 L saloons in Chennai also.

So the SS100 in Chennai is yours? We are eagerly waiting to see pics!

My knowledge on SS cars leaves much to be desired, but somehow something looked amiss on Shroff's car, I cant quite place it though. Or possibly the bodywork has been tweaked over the years. Anyways, its just speculation, there's a good chance Im wrong.

Can someone explain to me in detail which models are covered under Mark 4? I have some more prospective cars for this thread, Im just not sure.

terry mcgrath · 16th May 2008, 14:55

I was interesting to see harry weslakes posting I am not sure why I have orgotten harry car as ar as I know I havn't had any details on this car and whilst I know several other SS cars in India until we get details it is hard to know which are which.
Yoiu might like to provide a chassis number, body number or engine no and we can add this car to the records and cross it rom the 10 cars known to have gone there

HarryWeslake · 16th May 2008, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry mcgrath

I was interesting to see harry weslakes posting I am not sure why I have orgotten harry car as ar as I know I havn't had any details on this car and whilst I know several other SS cars in India until we get details it is hard to know which are which.
Yoiu might like to provide a chassis number, body number or engine no and we can add this car to the records and cross it rom the 10 cars known to have gone there

Tourer Chassis # 19102. We have exchanged quite a bit of correspondence on it!

HarryWeslake · 16th May 2008, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

So the SS100 in Chennai is yours? We are eagerly waiting to see pics!

My knowledge on SS cars leaves much to be desired, but somehow something looked amiss on Shroff's car, I cant quite place it though. Or possibly the bodywork has been tweaked over the years. Anyways, its just speculation, there's a good chance Im wrong.

Can someone explain to me in detail which models are covered under Mark 4? I have some more prospective cars for this thread, Im just not sure.

Unfotunately took some max resolution pics which are not uploading.Will remedy soon.Re Jackie Shroff's SS100 the faired in sidelights look odd.
The S/W cover, spare wheel cover & the rubber sheet where the tread strips should be also make it look a little off. Some extra switches &/or instruments in the Dash. Otherwise the car looks pretty good.Probably lacking the personal touch of a knowledgable & caring owner!
The Mk IV s were I think named as such retrospectively after the introduction of the Mk V , the first post war range of Jaguars. The Mk IV s were basically the SS saloons carried over from before the war but with the SS name dropped for their Nazi conotations.The range was similar with saloons in 1 1/2 , 21/2 & 31/2 L as well as the drophead 4 seaters in the 2 bigger engines. The 2 seat SS100 was not carried over as the XK 120 was due for a '48 launch

karlosdeville · 16th May 2008, 19:31

In that case here are a few more assorted cars. Forgive my lack of details, Im posting what little I know of them. Pics courtesy xotiacrs and team BHP

These 2 belonged to xoticars on the forum, though I think only one remains.

This one in a surprisingly similar scheme belongs to vintageman, also on the forum.

This white car is a regular at Calcutta events, and the black car was spotted at a Madras event.

I shot this beauty at the 2006 rally in Bombay.

This car was owned by a friend a few years back in Pune. It was originally from Calcutta I think.

This car has been in long term ownership with a doctor in Nagpur

This black car is also in Madras, I suspect it is different to the black car earlier posted.

These 2 pics were supplied by xoticars, perhaps he knows more about them. UPC 7953 appears to be a newspaper clipping about a rally.

DKG · 16th May 2008, 20:04

Xoticar's APY 3253 originally belonged to Prince Azamjah of Hyderabad, was in green , and had a polo playing horseman for a mascot. My father used to ride regularly and often he'd see Azamjah driveup in this car and sit by the riding field on a sofa enjoying the evening. I think his then current girlfriend used to ride

Later this car was (if I remember what Dad told me correctly) gifted to Azamjah's ADC, later also owned by a Babukhan and eventually with Xoticar, now sold

The grey car with red wheels is a 1936 SS if I remember correctly. Not sure if its still in Chennai. There's a SS100 with the TTK group, formerly owned by the TVS family

karlosdeville · 16th May 2008, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryWeslake

Unfotunately took some max resolution pics which are not uploading.Will remedy soon.Re Jackie Shroff's SS100 the faired in sidelights look odd.
The S/W cover, spare wheel cover & the rubber sheet where the tread strips should be also make it look a little off. Some extra switches &/or instruments in the Dash. Otherwise the car looks pretty good.Probably lacking the personal touch of a knowledgable & caring owner!

One main reason why the car looked odd to me is the design of the fenders. As a child I was in love with the SS100 purely because if those beautifully exectuted front fenders 'dipping down' up front. The ones on Shroff's car appear much shorter and terminate higher up.

13th May 2008, 18:41	#1
terry mcgrath BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: perth Posts: 64 Thanked: 16 Times	Prewar Jaguars in India Prewar Jaguars in India You will all have seen the interesting thread started by my colleague John Elmgreen titled Jaguar XK120/140/150 in India. Whilst we are currently working on this book on XKs, I have personally completed a book on the history of pre war SS and SS Jaguars and post war MKIV and MKV Drophead Coupes back in late 2004. The actual title is “The Forerunners of Jaguar in Australia and SE Asia”. For further details on this book visit Paul Skilleter Books - PJ Publishing Ltd - Jaguar related books and magazines - PayPal enabled The sales of SS Cars in India started as early as February 1932 and by the start of WWII some approx 105 cars had been dispatched to India including several to Indian Royalty eg Maharnioahiraj Kumar Visheveshwar Singh of the Palace Darbhanca Bihor (someone may care to correct the spelling) and to various English people working in India. It is thought one SS1 Airline was possibly purchased by Jawaharlal Nehru India’s first Prime Minister. Some of the 105 prewar cars are known to survive and it is assumed there are a number still to be found and identified. I have seen an SS advertised for sale in Bhutan and various reports on an SS100 in India that is known to have taken part in a couple of Classic Car events some 20 years ago. If any listers can provide details including chassis and engine numbers and photos of any pre war SS and SS Jaguar and post war MKIV and MKV Dropheads it would be particularly helpful for a reprint of the book. If I can work out how to post pictures I will upload some. regards terry
	() Thanks

13th May 2008, 20:04	#2
karlosdeville Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 11,976 Thanked: 18,277 Times View My Garage	Well, we do have quite a few SS cars running around in India, but never knew there were 105 sold! Id always heard of the Airline saloon of Nehru but never saw anything concrete. The princely state you refer to is "Darbhanga" in Bihar. The family had some of the best cars in the country. Here are a few SS in India. These red and white SS's are regulars at Kolkata rallies over the years. I think a relative of the owner of the red car is on the forum as well. This supposed SS100 belongs to film actor Jackie Shroff. There is another one under restoration soon to be completed in South India. Exactly which models come under the term "mark IV"? There are many other early jags surviving, but Ill keep those for after you clarify what you are looking for. Cheers and all the best on the book. If we can help out, dont forget to put in a good work for Team BHP
	(1) Thanks

13th May 2008, 22:08	#3
terry mcgrath BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: perth Posts: 64 Thanked: 16 Times	SS100's WOW thanks or posting these great shots, I have seen the white and red SS1 tourers before although we havn't identiied either of them and if anyone can provide the chassis no, engine no, or body number I can cross them of the list of 105 I havn't seen the pics of the film actor Jackie Shroff SS100's before, I would love to be able to identify this car by its chassis number and I would also love to get further details on the other car in south india thanks greatly or posting Last edited by Rehaan : 13th May 2008 at 22:18. Reason: (ignore earlier PM) Reason : formatting removed.
	() Thanks

13th May 2008, 23:37	#4
ramie2400 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,903 Thanked: 66 Times View My Garage	Fantastic pictures matey,these beauties are awesome,for the first time i am seeing them buddy.which place are these pictures from?
	() Thanks

14th May 2008, 15:26	#6
V-16 Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 4,594 Thanked: 950 Times View My Garage	Another SS owned by my dear friend. Wrong choice of colour though. On the expressway enroute to Khandala where most of his cars are stored.
	() Thanks

15th May 2008, 19:35	#7
terry mcgrath BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: perth Posts: 64 Thanked: 16 Times	1938-40 SS-Jaguar 1.5 litre saloon Bhutan Did this car get saved?? Of all the things you expect to find in the Kingdom Bhutan, we think you have listed the horrible Snowman, the Yeti higher than a poor lonesome Cat. So you can understand our astonishment when we received this photo from Lang Kidby - a Peking-Paris motorist located in Bhutan. The Bhutan barnfind is a four cylinder OHV, It may not be the most attractive of all SS Saloons, but the story adds to the flavour. Even more when you believe the story that the car once belonged to the Maharaja of Cooch Behar in Bengal. Unfortunately the car comes without any documents so don't shoot us or Mr. Kidby when the story is untrue. By the way the SS was available for free to somebody who is seriously willing to extract the car from this remote location. Info@PreWarCar.com Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

16th May 2008, 12:53	#8
HarryWeslake Newbie Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: chennai Posts: 12 Thanked: 3 Times	I wonder why Terry McGrath has forgotten my '37 SS Jaguar Tourer, which Karloseville refers to as being restored in "South India". Jackie Shroff's car looks to be a genuine SS100 so why "supposed" Karlosdeville? There are 2 Mk IV 1 1/2 L saloons in Chennai also.
	() Thanks

16th May 2008, 14:55	#10
terry mcgrath BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: perth Posts: 64 Thanked: 16 Times	'37 SS Jaguar Tourer, Harry Weslake I was interesting to see harry weslakes posting I am not sure why I have orgotten harry car as ar as I know I havn't had any details on this car and whilst I know several other SS cars in India until we get details it is hard to know which are which. Yoiu might like to provide a chassis number, body number or engine no and we can add this car to the records and cross it rom the 10 cars known to have gone there
	() Thanks

16th May 2008, 19:31	#13
karlosdeville Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 11,976 Thanked: 18,277 Times View My Garage	In that case here are a few more assorted cars. Forgive my lack of details, Im posting what little I know of them. Pics courtesy xotiacrs and team BHP These 2 belonged to xoticars on the forum, though I think only one remains. This one in a surprisingly similar scheme belongs to vintageman, also on the forum. This white car is a regular at Calcutta events, and the black car was spotted at a Madras event. I shot this beauty at the 2006 rally in Bombay. This car was owned by a friend a few years back in Pune. It was originally from Calcutta I think. This car has been in long term ownership with a doctor in Nagpur This black car is also in Madras, I suspect it is different to the black car earlier posted. These 2 pics were supplied by xoticars, perhaps he knows more about them. UPC 7953 appears to be a newspaper clipping about a rally. Last edited by karlosdeville : 16th May 2008 at 19:42.
	() Thanks

16th May 2008, 20:04	#14
DKG Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 3,711 Thanked: 1,389 Times View My Garage	Xoticar's APY 3253 originally belonged to Prince Azamjah of Hyderabad, was in green , and had a polo playing horseman for a mascot. My father used to ride regularly and often he'd see Azamjah driveup in this car and sit by the riding field on a sofa enjoying the evening. I think his then current girlfriend used to ride Later this car was (if I remember what Dad told me correctly) gifted to Azamjah's ADC, later also owned by a Babukhan and eventually with Xoticar, now sold The grey car with red wheels is a 1936 SS if I remember correctly. Not sure if its still in Chennai. There's a SS100 with the TTK group, formerly owned by the TVS family Last edited by DKG : 16th May 2008 at 20:09.
	() Thanks