[dominator]

Originally Posted by the mole

hmm intresting could it be a premier?

I would like to believe it is a very rare James, though they always had 2 stroke Villiers engines.
For a second, I also assume it is a BSA, because of the half complete Gearbox, which looks like a Sturmey Archer.

I would still go with the James.

[Julian UK]

Originally Posted by dominator

I would like to believe it is a very rare James, though they always had 2 stroke Villiers engines.
For a second, I also assume it is a BSA, because of the half complete Gearbox, which looks like a Sturmey Archer.

I would still go with the James.

I think you are correct Dominator as James did make many 4 strokes as well including V twins. The cylinder shape is slightly different but they both have the unusual fins, the forks are slightly different but everything else looks identical (frame, primary chaincase tank etc) probably a slightly different model or year. Once again, as with Harit's Norton, the top fork links are missing? Maybe both bikes had been to the same workshop
This is a 1915 model.


2nd photo from Wikipedia.

[dominator]

Originally Posted by Julian UK

I think you are correct Dominator as James did make many 4 strokes as well including V twins. The cylinder shape is slightly different but they both have the unusual fins, the forks are slightly different but everything else looks identical (frame, primary chaincase tank etc) probably a slightly different model or year. Once again, as with Harit's Norton, the top fork links are missing? Maybe both bikes had been to the same workshop
This is a 1915 model.
Attachment 61614

2nd photo from Wikipedia.

Julian : Probably a 350cc, and a very rare bike.
DKG : It should not be difficult to restore this bike in Hyderabad.

[fazalaliadil]

Dear DKG,
It is comendable how well you have narrated a part of history pertaining to the Nizam and his cars, and a good story in pictures. I would like to add here that the 7th Nizam of Hyderabad, Mir Osman Ali Khan was undoubtly the richest man in the world, In todays worth his fortune would make him a 5th richest, (forbes 2008) with over 250 billion dollars, and Bill Gates the 20th in comparassion.
The Nizam had 50 Rolls Royce in his collection, apart from many other cars in his personal garage is a historical fact.
DKG, when I was in my 10th grade way back in 1978, waiting for bus back home from school, at Abids, (remember Vasanth Vihar hotel? where a car dealer Ashraf used to have his office) there I saw a silver rolls Royce rolling out, I mean the whole body in solid silver (Chandi) with rivets all over, the unmistakeable RR, flying lady, sweeping mudguards converting into footboards. It was a convertible and in runing condition, there was a driver and co-passenger, who went around the Abids X circle. I will never forget that sight! Heard it was sold and shipped off abroad at a cost of Rs. 1.5 lakhs, which was a huge amount then. Likewise many other cars that belonged to the Nizam, Salarjung, Paigah's and other nobles found their way out of Hyderabad and eventually out of the country.
What we have left here now is a less than fraction to what was, thanks to guys like you, who make it possible for others to catch a glimpse of the glory of Hyderabad.
Your idea to use the truck to ferry the vehicles from Chirian to Pureni Haveli, was the most brilliant.
WELLDONE.

[Swifty2008]

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

Dear DKG,
It is comendable how well you have narrated a part of history pertaining to the Nizam and his cars, and a good story in pictures. I would like to add here that the 7th Nizam of Hyderabad, Mir Osman Ali Khan was undoubtly the richest man in the world, In todays worth his fortune would make him a 5th richest, (forbes 2008) with over 250 billion dollars, and Bill Gates the 20th in comparassion.
The Nizam had 50 Rolls Royce in his collection, apart from many other cars in his personal garage is a historical fact.
DKG, when I was in my 10th grade way back in 1978, waiting for bus back home from school, at Abids, (remember Vasanth Vihar hotel? where a car dealer Ashraf used to have his office) there I saw a silver rolls Royce rolling out, I mean the whole body in solid silver (Chandi) with rivets all over, the unmistakeable RR, flying lady, sweeping mudguards converting into footboards. It was a convertible and in runing condition, there was a driver and co-passenger, who went around the Abids X circle. I will never forget that sight! Heard it was sold and shipped off abroad at a cost of Rs. 1.5 lakhs, which was a huge amount then. Likewise many other cars that belonged to the Nizam, Salarjung, Paigah's and other nobles found their way out of Hyderabad and eventually out of the country.
What we have left here now is a less than fraction to what was, thanks to guys like you, who make it possible for others to catch a glimpse of the glory of Hyderabad.
Your idea to use the truck to ferry the vehicles from Chirian to Pureni Haveli, was the most brilliant.
WELLDONE.

@Fazal:
The write-up is amazing. I was forced to find the history of Nizam after reading your comments.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

The Nizam had 50 Rolls Royce in his collection, apart from many other cars in his personal garage is a historical fact.

Likewise many other cars that belonged to the Nizam, Salarjung, Paigah's and other nobles found their way out of Hyderabad and eventually out of the country.

Any pictures of these cars would be an invaluable record. If you, or someone you know, have pictures of cars belonging to either the Nizam's family or the nobility please do post them here for the record.

there I saw a silver rolls Royce rolling out, I mean the whole body in solid silver (Chandi) with rivets all over

.

That "silver" car (would be buffed aluminium as was the style in those days) you speak of most probably is 71DC a 1926 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 Barker Tourer. This belonged to Habib Jung, son of Wali-ud Dowla. Here's a picture of the car, presently in a museum abroad.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/923961-post579.html

The family of Dara Chenoy owned a RR which was also in buffed aluminium, for which I don't have the details, or when it was sold and went out of Hyderabad.

[vintagepoint5]

Hi DKG,

It is really a great job, you have done to prepare Nizam's collection of cars
for public viewing. I am looking forward to visit Chowmahala Palace once
it is has Vintage Cars section open for public. I also suggest to add beautiful framed pictures of cars displayed. This will give great impression to the viewers if exhibited B/W or colour pictures of the cars in their hey days with the royals travelling in it. I am sure each cars had its own stories and history.

Also add how the Nizam's car were maintained in those days, I heard
stories that Mr. Taqi Ali, whose job is to start all the Rolls daily to keep
in good condition.

Thanks & best regards,

[DKG]

Originally Posted by vintagepoint5

I also suggest to add beautiful framed pictures of cars displayed. This will give great impression to the viewers if exhibited B/W or colour pictures of the cars in their hey days with the royals travelling in it.

Thanks to Julian I was able to source some very rare pictures of the Nizam's Napiers being readied for shipment to Hyderabad from the Napier registrar Mr. Derek Grossmark. These will be displayed at the museum.

Also add how the Nizam's car were maintained in those days, I heard stories that Mr. Taqi Ali, whose job is to start all the Rolls daily to keep in good condition

One of the Napiers with sixth Nizam in the rear shows a European (most probably a Brit) chauffeur. In those days considering the complexity of the cars, initially (I'm talking around 1906) I am sure both chauffeurs and mechanics would have been British. Under their able guidance eventually the generation of mechanics such as Mr. Taqi and later his son Ali learnt how to not only maintain these cars but overhaul them as well. There was also a drivers program run by RR (from what I gather) which trained drivers on how to drive and carry out routine maintenance

I'm aware that the last few times the Ghost was started it was done by Mr Ali.

[fazalaliadil]

Originally Posted by Swifty2008

@Fazal:
The write-up is amazing. I was forced to find the history of Nizam after reading your comments.

Swifty 2008,
Thanks, but I feel the real source for your intrest in the history of the Nizam is DKG, for initiating this thread.

[fazalaliadil]

Originally Posted by fazalaliadil

The Nizam had 50 Rolls Royce in his collection, apart from many other cars in his personal garage is a historical fact.

DKG,
I will try to get pics of vintage cars of Hyderabad and their owners from sources such as family and friends.
The following reference to the canary yellow Silver Ghost should be the baby you moved from Chirian to Pureni Haveli.
"Automobile historian John M. Faisal states that in all, before 1947, a total of 900 Rolls-Royce cars were sold to Indian princes.
The handbook of the grand 40/50 h.p. Silver Ghost, sent to His Highness the Nizam of Hyderabad in March 1913 by Rolls-Royce, stated that it was a "Semi-State Coach". Actually it was a sort of throne car, painted in a rich canary yellow with gold mountings, upholstered in gold silk brocade with matching curtains and brocade. And this was only one of the Nizam’s 50 Rolls-Royces, many of which still have their original paint. They had barely done one thousand miles when he died in 1967. But it appears that despite his dozens of exotic automobiles (numbering more than 200), the Nizam used only one of his old Buicks to do his circuits of Hyderabad city. The Tribune - Windows - Feature

[dominator]

Originally Posted by DKG

Any pictures of these cars would be an invaluable record. If you, or someone you know, have pictures of cars belonging to either the Nizam's family or the nobility please do post them here for the record.

.

That "silver" car (would be buffed aluminium as was the style in those days) you speak of most probably is 71DC a 1926 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 Barker Tourer. This belonged to Habib Jung, son of Wali-ud Dowla. Here's a picture of the car, presently in a museum abroad.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/923961-post579.html

The family of Dara Chenoy owned a RR which was also in buffed aluminium, for which I don't have the details, or when it was sold and went out of Hyderabad.

Dara Chenoy also owned a Huge Hillman ( not sure of the model ). His brother Rashid also owned a Plymouth,Grahampage,Daimler,DKW and a few other cars.I also remember, till about late 70's, Bombay Bakery on Abids used to be a bikers hang out. If any of you are from HPS, then you should remember seeing a Sunbeam Talbot in one of the Staff Quarters,the car was there till about 1982, the year it got sold. Those were the years.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by dominator

Dara Chenoy also owned a Huge Hillman

Would you have any pictures? Will request the family for pictures when I meet them next

[dominator]

Originally Posted by DKG

Would you have any pictures? Will request the family for pictures when I meet them next

You can ask Soona aunty and also check with Darius. I will dig out more pictures during my trip in December.

[DKG]

I'm delighted to announce that the car display is now open to public. We had a press reveal today.

India's heritage has been depleting at an alarming pace. Please encourage as many friends and family as you can to visit heritage sites. Your ticket money helps in sustaining these magnificent museums and monuments

Enjoy

Originally Posted by dominator

You can ask Soona aunty and also check with Darius. I will dig out more pictures during my trip in December.

Will do

[travancore]

Here is one for you DKG
(source: Automotor Journal 1906 via Google Books)