[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by DKG

End of story

What is important is its a precious car, looked after to the best of the former owner's ability for years and now in the hands of a very capable restorer and a collector who I am sure will not compromise the restoration in anyway. Further please rest assured that the concerned restorer recognises the importance of preservation and will not compromise the car in any way

Wow, Blown away to see such a un-tampered beauty.

Yes sir , i agree totally, some things are better kept that way "undisclosed"

Nice to know, that its found a rightful owner.

This car will surely surface some day in bright colors, just the way it was in its heydays.

Till then best of luck to the restorer.

[wasif]

Originally Posted by DKG

Don't be so sure Harit

BTW Its not totally unheard of in India for cars to get offered for sale without owners consent

Yup I know how that goes. Once I was offered you family La Salle by a broker form the old city called Vijay.

He also brought one of his friends from Bombay who had pictures of the Jodhpur Delahaye. It was up for 15 large if i remember

[awini]

Originally Posted by wasif

Yup I know how that goes. Once I was offered you family La Salle by a broker form the old city called Vijay.

He also brought one of his friends from Bombay who had pictures of the Jodhpur Delahaye. It was up for 15 large if i remember

I was recently informed by a well known collector that my lagonda was for sale. Apparently someone sent him photos taken off the internet.

[V-16]

Originally Posted by harit

there is a tendency by some guys to try to boast and make false claims to the guys in foreign magazines. One contributor to "discoveries" told thos guys that he has unearthed a Lincoln of the 1930's. That boast was made about 4/5 years ago. No such car has surfaced. At an event in Pune he told one German chap of cars he owned, figment of his imagination. ...ng. False credits for discoveries are not helpful to anybody.

come come Harit. Thats hitting below the belt!!

Ok let me admit that i knew nothing of a Stutz in existence in India. I was told a few years ago about a rare American car with a vertical eight engine. The guy said it was probably a 28 Cadillac or a Studebaker lying in Gujarat. The price was crazy even 10 years ago Little did i know that it was a A Stutz..In India!! Wow thats enough to make my hair stand up. Now looking at that condition its obvious it was lying safe as can be seen by the condition of the dash etc. I think one knob is not original- looks like taken from a morris or a British car (but i am also open to correction, a la Harit)

The car was never shipped to the restorer but was bought by the restorer himself and might have been offered to certain high profile collectors with deep pockets (that why it was never offered to me by him. Clever guy knew my limits i guess). So IMHO that makes him the discoverer. One can see where it is lying from the man's pic himself as well as the number plates of the Scorpio and the Fiat.

Yes, i agree that people get carried away by claiming a particular car is their discovery but i think the thread starter's intention was not such. It was IMHO a very general statement sharing that Mr. so and so came to know of it bought it. It might not even be in the knowledge of the owner that so many persons knew about it prior to him.

So many times I have had people coming over and telling me about a certain car not divulging its details and on many an occasion i have filled in the blanks which surprised them, how i knew about it. So there we are. Im not boasting but we all have our own networks here, sometimes common. Many a time we will come to know of an automobile but either cannot afford it, or do not want to buy it, for various reasons. That does not make us any less an enthusiast.

I know that if one wants to but an automobile and is in the know of it, it is best kept to oneself and to a few others whom you trust. I have, like im sure all of you have too, seen cars being whisked under one's nose due to tom-tomming its existence. Cant blame anyone for that can we?

That fact remains that it is quite a discovery...er sorry procurement. Congrats to Mr. Titus and his vast and rare collection. Congrats to Manvendra for finding it and offering it to the right guy/s. Its fallen in good hands o fthe oener and the restorer. One more Cartier show car coming up chaps!!

Regarding cars for sale, my RR's pics were sent to me from a guy in Delhi, claiming the car was for sale with blanked no. plates. I recognized my car of course and also the place. After being told off and being warned of such dubious practices he never calles me again. Thankfully

[S.B.Jatti]

Originally Posted by awini

this is the Gujrat Blackhawk, it was offered to me many years ago, by the late Uday Kasliwal, who was in negosiation through Bhalerao. the price was very high, but that was possibly because the owner didnt really want to part with it, i think i met the owner with Uday at Jodhpur appartments in delhi, but my memory is sketchy on that.

This is a model "M" Stutz and not the Blackhawk, as most people in this Forum are referring to as the Gujarat Blackhawk. The Blackhawk had a much shorter wheel base of 1271/2 " where as the model "M" Stutz the photographs of which I have posted has a wheel base of 134 1/2 ". If you see the Identification plate in the photographs it clearly states model "M".

[S.B.Jatti]

Originally Posted by harit

I beg to differ again with all due respect, and this time strongly.

You are generalising, I am refering only to this car Stutz.
The statement was "Discovery of the year by Mr. Titus". All I pointed out was that this was incorrect. And I said that I knew of the car such a long time ago, never claimed it as my discovery. And all these years I never boasted of knowing about a Stutz, "you do not, so I thumb my nose at you". Short and to the point, it was termed as a discovery which it was not. If you read my post on prewarcar.com about the Packard, I did not claim it to be a discovery as it was known to few, certainly not to all.


Cheers

I wish to clarify that neither Mr.Diljeet Titus nor Mr.Manvinder Singh have made any claims about a find or a discovery. Even I have not claimed that it is a discovery. Since I was not aware of a Stutz's exisistance in the country and at least in the Delhi circuit no one had ever mentioned about this car, I have called it a find.

[awini]

Originally Posted by S.B.Jatti

This is a model "M" Stutz and not the Blackhawk, as most people in this Forum are referring to as the Gujarat Blackhawk. The Blackhawk had a much shorter wheel base of 1271/2 " where as the model "M" Stutz the photographs of which I have posted has a wheel base of 134 1/2 ". If you see the Identification plate in the photographs it clearly states model "M".

this has always been unofficially refered to as the gujrat blackhawk as very few ppl had actually seen the car, and the name has stuck on. Even then no photos came out. Most of us lived on descriptions from those who saw it. In my case it was uday kasliwal. If uday had lived on, the car would have possibly been in delhi over a decade ago. A delhi based industrialist was ready to pay what at that time was not far from the asking price for a restored ex rampur bentley, which was about double of what the minerva fetched at that time.

[wasif]

The title of this thread would be appropriate as Buy of the Year instead of Find of the Year.

I think the only cars that can top this would probably be those from the Faridkote Royal Garage.

Also J-196 and possibly another Duesenberg are out there somewhere waiting to be discovered.

[wasif]

BTW the car seems to be missing the rear windscreen frame and the rear cowl.

This is the body coloured piece that flips up to allow entry into the rear of the car i.e.the rear cowl of the twin cowl body style.

[harit]

A friend of mine has been in touch with an owner of a Stutz in America for sale. Seeing the condition, it comes to about half the cost of the Indian Stutz and this Speedster is more desireable. It has been describes as a Stutz Blackhawk Speedster 1929 aluminium body also by LeBaron, overhead cam and dual ignition.
See the dash in the second picture. A beautiful cluster. Our Indian car seems to have a different arrangement, and rather untidy.
The price of this speedster is $ 115K.
Cheers

[harit]

Originally Posted by wasif

Yup I know how that goes. Once I was offered you family La Salle by a broker form the old city called Vijay.

He also brought one of his friends from Bombay who had pictures of the Jodhpur Delahaye. It was up for 15 large if i remember

Are you sure that the LaSalle was never for sale? Just asking because I believe that indeed the car was for sale. And a few others whom I spoke to confirmed this. Perhaps Awini's car was not for sale, but this LaSalle very likely was. Was at one time, maybe not now.

There is a father/son team from Ahmedabad who were famous for this. They would carry pictures of cars in their album and show what was available. When told that that car belonged to Mr. X and sold to Mr. Y, without batting an eyelid they said that the photo was just to show a similar car to that which was for sale. This team was very cunning, they presented a facade that they had a fight and are separate, actually they were together all along.

I also had this experience and it was a nuisance. I got a call from Jaipur asking why I did not tell him that I am selling my Adler. I was not, called the fellow with whom she was lying. He told me that this guy had come asking to see cars and took photos, my friend ever obliging allowed him to. Then he went back to Jaipur and showed around. Later I got to know some of the people who saw the photos and they asked all sorts of questions on the unrestored cars in the background. Well, this is part of the hazards of having such cars.

BUT, all brokers are not like that, some are very honourable gentlemen!

[DKG]

Originally Posted by harit

Are you sure that the LaSalle was never for sale? Just asking because I believe that indeed the car was for sale.

Do please let me know when it comes up for sale coz first a cousin and then I would be interested in buying it.

[harit]

Originally Posted by DKG

Do please let me know when it comes up for sale coz first a cousin and then I would be interested in buying it.

Sorry, but your cousin and you are too late. This was years ago, apparently wihdrawn from sale. And price at that time was very high compared to current pricing of that time! I dread to think what would be the price today even if it were put up for sale and wonder how many would be able to affort. Not me. And I can still afford to smile as I am content.

Cheers and good night

[wasif]

Originally Posted by harit

See the dash in the second picture. A beautiful cluster. Our Indian car seems to have a different arrangement, and rather untidy.
The price of this speedster is $ 115K.
Cheers

Harit.

The dash as you have pointed out is definitely not original and has a lot of custom instruments which would not normally be found on a Stutz.

The Stutz cars featured very elegent wood framed dash panels like the picture you provided.

Wonder what the story is behind the Titus cars dash. Also the rims are not correct 1929 types and look like from a later vintage. Also the rear deck lid and the rear screen frame are also missing.

[wasif]

Whats up with the find of the year.

Any updates / pics ???