[Ford5]

Na uh. Keeping quiet for sometime reveals the true and ugly side of people. For example rattling off something totally unconnected to the case OR blabbering something which NEVER took place. I agree it's the media who puts out this stuff to read (because thats their business), but the fickle minded (not a bad work) who post irrelevant stuff in desperate attempts to rabble rouse their one sided views.... So immature.

The biker community would not tolerate wrong (color of skin apart). Im sure an apology would come across once JUSTICE is delivered.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by Ford5

Na uh. Keeping quiet for sometime reveals the true and ugly side of people. For example rattling off something totally unconnected to the case OR blabbering something which NEVER took place. I agree it's the media who puts out this stuff to read (because thats their business), but the fickle minded (not a bad work) who post irrelevant stuff in desperate attempts to rabble rouse their one sided views.... So immature.

The biker community would not tolerate wrong (color of skin apart). Im sure an apology would come across once JUSTICE is delivered.

You have still not answered my direct question.

What would you have done in this situation?

Maybe I can learn something from your approach. Because looking at that video and the pictures I honestly cannot think of anything apart from stamping that accelerator and getting out of there.

[E63]

Originally Posted by amit

Once the Range Rover had bumped the bike, the other guys could have parked at the side, called 911 and waited for the cops to arrive and sort out the issue.

Wasnt that what was happening until suddenly the RR guy decided, out of nowhere, to accelerate and run over the now paralyzed.

[lurker]

interview with the guy who started it all by doing a 'brake-check' in front of Lien. When Christopher Cruz brake checked Lien, Lien accidentally bumped Cruz's bike so he stopped like you're supposed to when you have an accident; but then the bikers started to congregate around the SUV and were banging on it, tried to smash the back windshield. That was when Lien decided to escape the situation and plow through the bikers in his way; I would have done the same thing and so would anyone else on this forum. If they say they do, then they are probably lying to themselves.

Ofcourse now he is being all sorry and reasonableness personified and lying through his teeth all the while.
Looking at friends on the other side behind him, while slowing down but not really because his brake-light never went on/off . yeah right .. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3uAnFfX7gU

[E63]

Was what the biker did by bringing his bike in front of the SUV a brake-check?
Lets debate.

I am still trying to figure out how in the holy hell that was a brake check. How can someone on a motorcycle slow down faster than a car when riding one handed and looking over his shoulder?

[Ford5]

Mom and Kid unhurt. Expected and appreciated.

Lien knifed in face. Retributive justice (a very very mild retribution for what he did)

Bikers half dead. Who gives a damn? They're bikers after all.

[Soumyajit9]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

The "truth" or our understanding continues to evolve. Who does one believe? I think dashcams are the way to go.
http://pix11.com/2013/10/04/exclusiv...before-attack/]

Whoever the gentleman (Michael Anthony) was, speaking over the phone, he sure knew that his group by large was at fault.
And hopefully that 4 hours of video is not wiped out due to accidental damage.

The news reporter's questions were clear:
Reporter - Do you want Mr Lien arrested ?
Michael Anthony - Umm, Yaa, I believe he should be charged.

Why was he stuttering ?
C'mon, who is the witness trying to fool ? He knows that Cruz was acting crazy and that's when Lien could not stop his car and rear-ended him.
Mr Anthony claims that they decided to form a pack or group and hence were slowing down. But Cruz, who stops suddenly in the middle of a highway to ask other bikers to gather on a side so that they can form a pack ? C'mon, vehicles moving at 100kmph cannot suddenly stop, just because the bikers decide to group themselves.

The video does not immediately show the reaction of other bikers. Then it shows that the SUV runs over bikes and bikers.
So what happened between the time when Cruz was rear ended, till Lien ran over the bikers ?

A general reaction would be surround the car and start abusing or banging on windows ? We Indians do, Americans also do the same. Its general human psychology. One gets agitated and aggressive when your near and dear ones (here friend biker) are hurt. This must have triggered off panic within Lien and he started running for life. Now the question is, did the bikers simply abuse him and bang his window, or did they take out their deadly knives and do something extra, to threaten Lien ?

All unanswered. The counsel of the biker gang would do his best to save his clients. That's his job. Facts will come out soon, and like everyone said, hope justice is served.

[lurker]

I think ALL of those 100 bikers (or however many there were), including the undercover cops in that group, should be charged and jailed -- or have their bikes confiscated permanently. And bike confiscation would be the best.

[ani_meher]

It pains me to see the video as a biker, but I realize that I do not relate to these scums just because I happen to share a hobby with them. A biker is not a pack dog, he is not the first to pick up fight.

But damn this has started great fights here on team-bhp. I would suggest people to stop taking this personally, as if a scorpio is now going to roll me down while I am waiting at a signal on a motorcycle going to office, or as if on weekends, I and other hooligans on our bikes are going to hunt all the cars in our city. This is just one outlying scenario of a group of dogs barking on the wrong tree, using a tool which happen to be motorcycles. No point in defending what Lien did as well, because he is not 'Batman' to punish a criminal in ways he want.

[Maverick5490]

Seeing the video again, why does it look like the front left tire of the Rover is already flat. Below is a screenshot. Could anyone else confirm that? or is it just the poor resolution.

Edit: it 0:24 seconds onwards, just saw the Team-bhp watermark come up.
Edit 2: The more I look at it, now if you see closely, even the Mirror lens from the driver side is also missing!! So the car might have already been subjected to abuse!

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by E63

Wasnt that what was happening until suddenly the RR guy decided, out of nowhere, to accelerate and run over the now paralyzed.

Originally Posted by Ford5

The biker community would not tolerate wrong (color of skin apart). Im sure an apology would come across once JUSTICE is delivered.

A few years ago, I was involved in an incident that continues to haunt me to this day. Key-in the words 'Victim of extortion' and hit the search button for more info.

Of course, the scale and magnitude of that incident does not hold a candle to this one, but you still could draw parallels. Needless to say, it made me a tougher human being. But when I was in the spot, I was a spineless fool who decided to step out of my car and attempt to reason with the 'biker'. He eventually extorted some 500 bucks after threatening to smash my car and hurt my friends.

Now I want you'll, Ford5 and E63, to answer bblost's question unambiguously. Something you'll haven't done even though the question has been posted repeatedly.

What would you do if you find yourself in a similar situation? Remember, you are driving a SUV and your wife and child are passengers. You hit a biker who brake-checked you and suddenly, your car was surrounded by 30-40 knife-wielding people. The key word here is 'people', NOT 'bikers'.

Would you actually step out and attempt to reason with 30 knife-wielding people? Really?

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by lurker

I think ALL of those 100 bikers (or however many there were), including the undercover cops in that group, should be charged and jailed -- or have their bikes confiscated permanently. And bike confiscation would be the best.

Under what law or which principles of natural justice? I'm afraid this suggestion does NOT stand up to reason. Can we kindly get back on topic?

[pjbiju]

When a crowd (be it bikers/village people/auto-rickshaw drivers etc.) gathers around you threateningly, there is a great chance of it going out of control, with you at the receiving end, whether you are at fault or not. It just requires someone to spark it off and then the rest will join in. There is no point in being a sitting duck in such situations.

If you provoke people, you should be ready to face the consequences that you may not have bargained for. That is what the bikers did in this case. Now pay for it.

[AbhishekB86]

Originally Posted by Ford5

Na uh. Keeping quiet for sometime reveals the true and ugly side of people. For example rattling off something totally unconnected to the case OR blabbering something which NEVER took place. I agree it's the media who puts out this stuff to read (because thats their business), but the fickle minded (not a bad work) who post irrelevant stuff in desperate attempts to rabble rouse their one sided views.... So immature.

The biker community would not tolerate wrong (color of skin apart). Im sure an apology would come across once JUSTICE is delivered.

Really? Are you sure that's the case? So your alternate view is above and beyond the comprehension of the NYPD?

I would suggest you keep words like immature and fickle minded locked away safely. Everyone has an opinion and if you do not agree you don't have to make it a verbal slug fest.

Take any case and you will see that past history does determine and influence cases. This fellow has been charged previously.

Also, so as and when the supposed victimized Hollywood Stuntz is passing by and riding on pavements and taking over times square people should stop being so 'up markety' and give them the right of way, tolerate beatings and back off every time because they're the ones who are called scums?

If that's your idea of how roadways should be I would say reading your previous comments I am not at all surprised.

P.S : Had the rear window broken and those panes landed on the toddler's face would you still call it justified? So an attempt to hurt a child should be pardoned just because the child wasn't hurt successfully by the end of it?

[Ford5]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Would you actually step out and attempt to reason with 30 knife-wielding people? Really?

What I would not do is floor the accelerator in the hopes of being a hero.

Did anyone go and check if 30 people had knifes on them? Why assume things and be the jury?

Kid in the back seat? How is someone supposed to see that with dark tints?

Are people suggesting Lien wife and baby would be cut up into pieces in broad daylight??

Lien could have attracted attention by honking. Putting the hazard lights on. Or as someone said calling 911 (which lien did but to no avail) like the bikers should have done (while lien would supposedly wait) & Sitting tight for half a minute until the public came to his rescue?

What does he do? Drives over "people" TWICE.

The video is ample proof that bikers merely stood by the car. And for Lien to react in that way it would amount the bikers to try and roll over the suv or jump on top of his suv to make apparent their "threat" & "intention" of cutting up Lien and his family.

Was there any such reaction after the supposed brake check? NO.

@AbhiskekB86: I'd rather you pore over your previous posts instead of accusing me of what you just did. Being touchy and flipping away at the keys doesn't invalidate other's pov.