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Originally Posted by black12rr On a sport bike or super bike, this would have been the case, but if you look at the bike the person has, most of the contact patch comes from rear tyre. |
A Fat tyre in a motorcycle has curved lateral cross section this means that the fat rear tyre helps in cornering rather than just increasing the contact patch. Also a Fat tyre doesnot guarantee braking.
In the friction equation friction is independent of area!
Frictional force= Weight x Coefficient of Friction
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Also to note that, he had a pillion in this case, now most of the weight( rider + pillion + bike ) rests on the rear tyre. So if the rear brake was effective ( assuming it was not ) , most the traction would have been provided by rear tyre and it would have slowed down or stopped in time to avoid jumping over the speed breaker .
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Wrong- Just because you have a fat tyre and a pillion seating on it will change the Front:Rear braking force ratio of 70:30 substantially.
Instead I would say a major part of the rider and the pillions weight (W) will be transferred forward onto the front tyre patch which will further increase front tyres braking force
Frictional force= Weight (W) x Coefficient of Friction
In motorbike brake design the rear brakes are purposefully kept relatively weak so that in panic situations even if a person stomps on it, it should not skid at the first instance.
In motorbike braking the skid first starts at the rear than at the front due to the low active normal weight available on the rear tyre.
Reduced weight on the rear tyre due to weight transfer is the major reason why rear wheel skid starts first if the rear brakes are made equally powerful.
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PS: There is a reason the bike ( what ever type it is ) is provided with rear brake and it has to be working at 100 % all the time and also used all the time .
The logic, saying it is not needed is incorrect .
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Yes you are right about the logic that whatever last ounce of braking force one can extract has to be done and so rear brakes are also required but in the importance ratio of Front (70-80%) to Rear (20-30%)
Do you know that in motorbike riding schools where they teach riding one of the technique they teach is first to brake using only the front brakes. Because it is observed that novice people cannot modulate both brakes simultaneously and often land up loosing the rear wheel.
You are right only light bikes will pop up the rear wheel instead the front wheel will skid before that. Then why not concentrate on the front wheel which provides maximum braking and modulate it such that it doesnot skid.
1) Rear motorbikes are designed purposefully weaker to avoid rear end skids.(Drive any disc brake motorbike you will come to know about this)
2) A pillion will not increase braking force at rear wheel as much it will increase on front tyre due to weight transfer. But at the same time due to the weight of the pillion the motorbike would require more braking force (under the limit of skid) to achieve same braking distances.
3) Friction is a complex phenomenon and is not dependent on area so its not necessarily a fatter rear tyre will increase braking force.
Oh! I have not read the link which you provided and landed up explaining the same things nearly again. Sorry for that.
But I agree with GTO that if the guy is complaining about rear brakes I really doubt whether he really applied the front brakes enough. I would have complained more about the front brakes or the poor tyres if god forbid I was in the same situation. Also, did the guy release the front brake just before the speedbraker? If not surely he was doomed to fall.
One more important point. I myself graduated from a 100cc drum brake bike to a bike with disc brake. The first complaint was that the rear brakes are horribly underpowered.
For 100cc bikes which have both front-rear drum brakes the rear drum brakes are made equally or nearly powerful as front brakes to compensate for the weak front drums.
I still feel my 100 cc bike has better rear brakes than my disc brake bike. Is it due to the design or due to weight difference/power of the bike which makes me feel so... hmm