[Sutripta]

^^^
My thinking was in two more or less separate streams:
a) Implementation of a CBS + ABS + mechanical rear brake system.
b) Rationale behind the decisions.

I was under the mistaken notion that in some cases CBS + ABS was mandated. And was wondering how it was going to be implemented here, a very cost sensitive market, where cost pressures would have meant retaining the rear drum brakes. As I now see, CBS + ABS is not being mandated. So "my problem" effectively taken care of!

Regarding rationale: CBS presupposes (actually true) that most of us rely on the rear brakes rather than the front. And now the mandated solution is CBS or ABS. A single channel (low cost) ABS, logically on the front wheel, will not address the problems of stomping on the rear brakes.
So what problem is one addressing?

Regards
Sutripta

[Viju]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Regarding rationale: CBS presupposes (actually true) that most of us rely on the rear brakes rather than the front. And now the mandated solution is CBS or ABS. A single channel (low cost) ABS, logically on the front wheel, will not address the problems of stomping on the rear brakes.
So what problem is one addressing?

Anyone who has some experience on two wheelers will know that the front brake provides most of the braking power. If riders still stomp on the rear brakes during emergency braking situations despite having a front disc brake, no legislation can save them. They need training. And I hope you don't feel that this regulation should cover that as well.

You will be surprised to know that the 'our customers use only rear brakes' condition is given by many Indian two wheeler makers to ABS suppliers.

The way I see it, front wheel locks are much harder to control than a rear wheel lock. Even average riders can mostly control a fish-tailing situation. Front wheel ABS hopes to provide a safety net for this by providing better stability (always), and better deceleration (in most situations). Of course, ABS on both wheels is always better. But we again return to the point of adding a rear disc brake plus a more complex ABS unit to a relatively inexpensive two wheeler.

At the same time, if a front wheel ABS can help meet the requirements of stopping distance and deceleration as set in the regulation (of course by using the front brake), then why not?

CBS in it's own right provides a much better deceleration even for machines with drums at both ends (and even for those riders who use only the rear brakes). But of course it does not prevent wheel lock.

I have been testing two wheelers ranging from 7 bhp auto-scoots to 200 bhp SBKs. And I think the solutions which are available - CBS (mechanical) and ABS (one channel - Eg. RS200, two channel - Eg. Duke 390, and higher end systems with integral braking, as on most BMWs) are adequate to provide safe braking in almost any situation imaginable.

Regards
Viju

[Sutripta]

^^^
As I said, CBS and ABS address entirely separate scenarios.
If I had it my way, I would mandate ABS and extremely weak rear brake + mandatory rider education. Weak rear brakes for a generation:- maybe our collective braking skills would improve!

Regarding CBS: In a full mechanical system (drums at both ends) CBS implementation is surprisingly simple, cheap, and should I say elegant.
In a full hydraulic setup, CBS implementation is pretty straightforward.
In a rear drum/ front disc, CBS implementation is a kludge. And I would think front/ rear brake bias would be extremely sensitive to wear and tear/ on field adjustment.

Bottom line: I think ABS only should have been mandated.

Regards
Sutripta

[Viju]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Bottom line: I think ABS only should have been mandated.

Agree 100%. I hope to see a day when all two-wheelers have disc brakes and ABS on both wheels.

[mvadg]

May be this is not the right forum, but on a different note - how hard is it to retrofit the CBS on a Honda Activa with both cable and on an Aviator with one disc (hydraulic) and one cable link. Has any gotten it done? And by the A S S, or FNG?

I think ABS is a must and costs are primarily exaggerated due to their 'luxury' connotations.

[GTO]

Here's a related infographic shared by Bosch. Gives a good perspective of how things are worldwide:

[Viju]

Originally Posted by GTO

Here's a related infographic shared by Bosch.

Always loved the neat presentations from Bosch, starting from MSIL days. They come up with great statistics as well.

Really surprising to see Japan so late in implementing the ABS rule! Trying to figure out why.

There is a joke in the automobile industry that regulations come into effect when Bosch is ready with their assembly line!

[Omkar]

ABS mandatory on 125cc and above motorcycles from April 2018

ABS will be made mandatory on two-wheelers with an engine displacement above 125cc from April 1, 2018 in India. For vehicles with an engine capacity less than or equal to 125cc, manufacturers have the option of installing ABS or combined braking system (CBS). This has been notified by the Ministry of Road Transport and Highways (MoRTH) to include the scooter segment as well.

Additionally, new vehicle models launched in category L2 (three-wheelers) with an engine capacity equal to or less than 125cc, maximum power equal to or more than 16.09 BHP and power to weight ratio equal to or more than 0.134 BHP/kg manufactured after April 1, 2018 will be fitted with ABS or CBS.

Source: Autocar

[rahulskumar]

ABS should have been mandatory for engines > 100 CC. Majority of two wheeler sales in India consists of activa and splendor. According to two wheeler statics for march 2016, around 11 lakh were sold in this category (nearly 80 % ). Mass production of abs on such a huge scale should bring down the prices too and ensure safe travel during rains and on roads with gravel .

My concern is for the families whose main mode of commuting is a two wheeler.

Does Taiwan sell more bikes below 125 category ? I believe no one can beat Indian sales

[rajshenoy]

How feasible would this be in terms of economics ? ABS would definitely increase the cost of the two-wheeler which are mostly bought here as a means of transportation than for aspiration or adventure.

It could also mean auto makers will focus more on the 100-125 cc segment, may be better technology to generate more performance oriented bikes, like we are seeing with cars with compact engines now.

[WhiteFang]

Any update on this?
I'm in market looking for a scooter which will be mainly used for daily commute to office. At present apart from CBS available in couple of Honda scooters, there is nothing much to look out for when it comes to safety. If the deadline 04/2018 is seriously considered to be followed, I won't mind waiting.

[dotz_13]

Originally Posted by WhiteFang

Any update on this?
I'm in market looking for a scooter which will be mainly used for daily commute to office. At present apart from CBS available in couple of Honda scooters, there is nothing much to look out for when it comes to safety. If the deadline 04/2018 is seriously considered to be followed, I won't mind waiting.

Same question here. I am planning to pick one up this month, but would not mind waiting for a couple of months if its being made mandatory in April 2018.

The confusion from multiple news sources is:
- Is it being made mandatory for all 2 wheelers > 125cc manufactured after April 2018 or
- Is it being made mandatory for all NEW model 2 wheelers manufactured after April 2018?

If this applies to only the NEW models, means that none of the existing models, even though manufactured after April 2018 will get ABS (not mandatory till April 2019).

Need some clarity please!!

[AtheK]

As far as i understand,

Any new launch after 1st April 2018 with capacity greater then 125 cc has to have abs.

All vehicles after 1st April 2019(including existing models) to have abs.

[dotz_13]

Yes, the *new* is the confusion here. Because that means, even if you plan to buy any existing model post April 2018, you may not have ABS, unless the manufacturers decide to provide it in *existing* models manufactured post April 2018.

[V_Gupta]

I am looking for new Royal Enfield Stealth Grey 350 cc model as replacement for my 2014 CL 500 DS due to EFI system failure and chances of recurring the same fault again.

After reading articles regarding introduction of ABS in 2 wheelers I hoped for RE to introduce this feature. Although they introduced much needed rear disc brakes in Classic series but I was disappointed with the absence of ABS even though they are giving this feature in export model.
I contacted the local showroom of RE and they were surprised when I asked them if company is going to provide ABS after April 2018 and if so I'm willing to wait. They have not received any information for the same, so now I'll go ahead and book a stealth grey with 2018 VIN number. Atleast company fitted rear disc brake will be an improvement with considerable improved reliability of Carburetor system and by the time ABS become common I'll look into ways to properly installed on the motorcycle.

It is disheartening to see the companies still cutting corners and waiting for government to make the norms compulsory rather than leading the market by providing such safety measures especially when the hype of Royal Enfield is at an all time high with people willing to pay extra for these safety features.