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Old 23rd January 2018, 14:35   #31
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Originally Posted by ksameer1234 View Post
How difficult would it be for manufacturers like MT, LS2, SOL to get ISI certification in addition to DOT, ECE, Sharp etc. certifications.
I'm guessing these manufacturers have considered this, and have come to the conclusion the cost/benefit equation is not in their favour. BIS itself has a scheme by which this is possible: http://www.bis.org.in/fmcs/aboutFMCS.htm

On the other hand, many BIS standards are aligned to something corresponding in Europe/USA/ISO etc. I tried locating the helmet standard (BIS 4151:1993) but it costs money (a small amount) and the purchase website is not working for me. The second-best option is this draft from 2013: http://www.bis.org.in/sf/ced/CED22_7887.pdf

Thankfully, it says that it is aligned with "EC Regulation No. 22, Revision 4 incorporating 05 series of amendments to the extent possible, keeping in view Indian conditions". That is the familiar ECE R22-05. So if that made it to the final version ECE helmets are probably compliant (subject to local modifications to the standard) with Indian requirements.

Last edited by binand : 23rd January 2018 at 14:36.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 14:43   #32
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Originally Posted by swissknife View Post
All that it may need is some kind of a homologation vis-a-vis the ISI. If the ISI spec is matched against, say, DOT, it could serve as being equivalent.
Yes, But who will do it. Theoretically speaking, it must be MORTH and RTO. But how fast will they do it? let's see...

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
On the other hand, many BIS standards are aligned to something corresponding in Europe/USA/ISO etc. I tried locating the helmet standard (BIS 4151:1993) but it costs money (a small amount) and the purchase website is not working for me. The second-best option is this draft from 2013: http://www.bis.org.in/sf/ced/CED22_7887.pdf
A quick search for standards gave me the standards document (it's a draft copy I guess)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Helmet ISI.pdf (1.79 MB, 144 views)
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Old 23rd January 2018, 14:49   #33
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Quote:
Originally Posted by binand View Post
The second-best option is this draft from 2013: http://www.bis.org.in/sf/ced/CED22_7887.pdf
A quick search for standards gave me the standards document (it's a draft copy I guess)
They are the same draft. :-)

The BIS website is working for me now, but it is asking me to install some sort of Acrobat Reader plugin to read the standard. I have given up since I don't want to do that. If anyone is interested, the website is www.standardsbis.in and the standard to search for is IS 4151.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 14:52   #34
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Originally Posted by Divya Sharan View Post
Respite for the time being. Let's hope some sense seeps in.
While this is good for the time being, I just hope that better sense prevails.
This announcement is not there in the papers yet and the other one which states Non ISI helmets do not comply with the law is already published. Given this, there will be a few smart ones out there, trying to harass & fine someone who has invested heavily in protecting is head

Putting an ISI sticker on your helmet is not the right thing to do and its certainly unlawful. I for one will ride with my helmets as it is, all of them are ECE rated and I strongly believe that they will protect my head in case of any eventuality. If BTP wants to fine me for wearing them, I will pay it and move on. But I sincerely hope that it doesn't reach that stage.

Last edited by Vishnuk : 23rd January 2018 at 14:59.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 15:09   #35
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

Rushlane article on this -

https://www.rushlane.com/ece-dot-sne...-12129708.html

I sincerely hope this short-sighted nonsensical move is being adopted by the other state policemen as well.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 15:14   #36
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

For a moment, lets forget what the cops say. What worries me more is the High Court in one of the road accident cases in Karnataka said the victims can not claim insurance as they were not wearing ISI mark helmets. Am more worried about this statement being generalized and used by the cops until some one goes to the court to prove that there are far stricter and safer standards than ISI so please rephrase the statement / judgement to say that compensation only if ISI or other such international safety certified helmet. This could takes weeks or months.

Last edited by Nilesh5417 : 23rd January 2018 at 15:15.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 15:21   #37
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Originally Posted by Vishnuk View Post
Putting an ISI sticker on your helmet is not the right thing to do and its certainly unlawful. I for one will ride with my helmets as it is, all of them are ECE rated and I strongly believe that they will protect my head in case of any eventuality. If BTP wants to fine me for wearing them, I will pay it and move on. But I sincerely hope that it doesn't reach that stage.
I hope it is limited to just fines at the most, but the real issue I'm worried about is these idiots confiscating my $500 Bell and crushing it along with other sub 500 rupee 'helmets'. If they start doing that, I don't think there is any way out other than sticking ISI stickers.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 15:31   #38
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

Not sure how these petitions work, but i have signed it.

https://www.change.org/p/r-hitendra-...term=triggered

Now coming to the topic of certifications, as a proud Indian I don't have doubts on the standards we have, but I really doubt the implementation of the same. Are there stringent tests done to validate products are complying to the set standards? before that sticker is put on? This is where an imported piece offer 'relatively' better consistency in quality, due to the heavy penalties they have to cough up if things are not adhered to in other countries. Next issue to deal with is, how do cops determine these international certification stickers are authentic and NOT some cheap chinese maal? So yes it is going to be a long drawn one to find a solution and to come out with a reasonable settlement.

Having said that I am quiet amused that no one realized how silly all this sound, since all these certifications means nothing at the end of the day, when the rider inspite of wearing helmet, decides to buy an ill fitting one OR when they don't put that safety buckle on and keep the helmet tight.

After the whole fiasco shot up in social media today morning, I was counting helmets on my commute to office, atleast as and when the traffic slowed down or stopped, I was. Did this to see how many of the helmets had ISI mark? Not sure if it is due to the media hype or not, but at 9:30am almost 45 of the 50 helmets I counted on the Inner Ring Road had ISI mark. Most of them were old but that sticker was still there, and yes there were some useless polo helmets (often in shining color scheme) that had just the name of the manufacturing company printed. But the reality is apart from ~4-5 DOT ECE helmets and ~5 illegal polo helmets, rest all were ISI mark ones. Now comes the fun part and I kid you not, just one person wearing a vega helmet was strapped in! Rest all had left the straps unhooked!! This is as good as NOT wearing helmets, once the speeds go beyond say 20-30 Kmph. Imagine keeping seat belt on but not hooked into the locking systems? Outcomes would be similar. So god save these riders and help all the authorities who are genuinely trying to make a change...

Unless proper information is shared on safety gear, even the best of certification wouldn't make a dent on our infamous road fatality figures. If I were the authority watching, I would first implement safe usage, educate people on what to get and how to select, then jump into the band wagon of what certification. To me an unbranded un-certified but well fitting and properly strapped helmet is anyday better than a branded ISI helmet that is left unsecured to ones head, in the event of a road accident.

Last edited by navin : 25th January 2018 at 13:46. Reason: typos.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 15:42   #39
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Default Re: No DoT or ECE approved Helmets allowed, only ISI - Bangalore Traffic Police

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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
I hope it is limited to just fines at the most, but the real issue I'm worried about is these idiots confiscating my $500 Bell and crushing it along with other sub 500 rupee 'helmets'. If they start doing that, I don't think there is any way out other than sticking ISI stickers.
Going by the response given by BTP so far on this topic, I don't think we will end up in a situation where our DOT / ECE certified helmets will be crushed.
I am pleasantly surprised to see that they understand our point of view.
And the biggest positive, is their latest post stating that they will be writing to the transport department on their own to seek clarification on this. I can't recollect many incidents where BTP has taken the initiative on a topic, which doesn't affect a majority.

Last edited by Vishnuk : 23rd January 2018 at 15:50.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 15:47   #40
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

While I do not disagree with absurdity of preventing people from adhering to higher standards such as DOT, SNELL etc., is this not the case of shooting the messenger?

Leaving aside all the other desirable things we would want the traffic cops to do, here they are enforcing the law as written. We cannot complain about them not enforcing some laws when they do enforce laws we do not like. I do not see how the police can recognise an alternate, albeit better, standard when the laws specifically prescribes a standard. So we should be petitioning the government and not hauling up the cops.

On a separate note, not only do the Karnataka rules specify the requirement for the ISI mark to be present, it also requires:
" the headgear shall have minimum three adhesive type retro-reflective red colour stripes on the back of the headgear which will illuminate during the night. The stripes should be of the size of 2 cm x 13 cm and affixed horizontally to the headgear". So I wonder when they will start enforcing this.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 15:54   #41
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Default Re: Which Helmet? Tips on buying a good helmet

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Originally Posted by jpcoolguy View Post
I sincerely hope this short-sighted nonsensical move is being adopted by the other state policemen as well.

I sincerely hope you meant to say that this short-sighted nonsensical move is NOT being adopted by the other state policemen as well.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 16:06   #42
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
But in Karnataka i hope they atleast use ISI helmets. I see construction helmets, casual hats and even AAP Cap used as make shift helmets and every where around Bangalore.

So if this helps to atleast make them wear ISI helmet I will be happy to not put ISI sticker over the DOT helmet of mine.
Intention might be great - but why force me to wear a unsafe ISI helmet versus DOT/ECE helmet ? Sorry but i am not willing to become a sacrificial lamb for some supposedly good to society. Especially as i see what sorts of helmets have ISI mark.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 16:42   #43
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

I've read some posts in this thread mentioning ISI standard helmets are unsafe. Let's not convey that wrong message. It's not the case.

Helmets manufactured according to the IS 4151:2013 is safe and is almost inline with the US DoT's FMVSS 218 standard or Europe's ECE22.05 standard.
Infact the ISI standard document clearly mentions ECE22.05 and the extra requirements added for Indian conditions. If not anything else ISI standard are supposedly better than ECE 22.05 standard. Similarly FMVSS 218 is almost same as ECE 22.05

If we buy a good branded helmet (Vega and the likes) certified with ISI, we can be sure of our safety. The issue of helmets with a fake ISI stamp is different. Those 100 rupees "Ferrari" helmets with fake ISI stamp is not safe i agree

Again, I'm in no way supporting this blanket rule of "Only ISI" as someone wrote, all we need to do is to show (MORTH or RTO or Police) that helmets made according to foreign standards are equally safe and should be allowed
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Old 23rd January 2018, 17:04   #44
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
Helmets manufactured according to the IS 4151:2013 is safe and is almost inline with the US DoT's FMVSS 218 standard or Europe's ECE22.05 standard.
=====
If we buy a good branded helmet (Vega and the likes) certified with ISI, we can be sure of our safety.
First part (highlightened in my post also) I completely agree.

The second part is where I have a different opinion, Indian companies are good in misleading .

Scenario 1 - An ISI mark for a product can be obtained for n number of reasons (including production standards) and they will put that on a helmet, and general public / authorities get misled with that believing it is compliant for safety.

Scenario 2 - It is a well known fact in manufacturing to make test samples 'special', and once the production starts standards can 'vary', since the tests and liability process are tedious and time consuming, many of them gets off easily with such malpractices. This is where i am slightly better off with a reputed international brand, where the brand has lots more at stake and are careful with what they claim OR stick on their helmets.

Again not saying all are upto these mischiefs, but peace of mind is definitely better with well know imported brands.

Where the imported products score high is with finish, weight, sound insulation (that is very important on longer and faster rides) and overall longevity of the product. Somehow best of Indian helmets are still a notch below at these.

Last edited by navin : 25th January 2018 at 13:47. Reason: typos and formatting
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Old 23rd January 2018, 17:14   #45
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

Would anyone know which Indian brands of helmets come with a double D ring fastener? Personally, I prefer this to the clip type ones that I have come across in the Indian market.
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