[aargee]

Originally Posted by ArchitectIT

Hello Gurus,

Need your help in selecting riding gears for myself...comments about them please?
I will be riding in Delhi, thus have to consider summers as well.

Thanks in advance

Jacket - For Delhi's weather, it's hard to stick with just one jacket because of intense heat in Summer, where mesh jacket is recommended & cold weather where Textile jacket is good enough. Water proof...beware the Summer, you'll be soaked in sweat to complaint its non water proof lol

If you want water proof, I would strongly suggest you to buy one or two piece rain coat & wear it over the riding gears...saying this with my very limited experience of riding through rains the whole day from Jaipur to Bombay, Thrissur to MVPA, Kholapur to Pune.

May be a mesh jacket with inner lining during Winter & without inner lining in Summer will be good enough.

Riding pants, once again, I would opt for mesh jacket & use the rain coat pant even in Winter to protect from cold air hitting the legs (and Jeans ofcourse) & avoid textile, as it will certainly soak legs with sweat in Summer

Riding Boots...again, no one type will fit; water proofs are bound to soak legs with sweat; so I would suggest getting riding shoes with Goretex make, something like this - http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/s...gore-tex-boots

And if you allow me to suggest few more essentials which are often ignored...
- Gloves; get 2 pairs, one for Summer & other to ride in rains - Waterproof
- Balaclava; try getting the one made with coolmax material
- Socks - a highly ignored product, something like this - http://www.alpinestars.com/federation-sock#.U-hIzOOSySo

[ebonho]

Guys please suggest a good jacket. Available readily here. Its a stop gap replacement for my current imported waterproof touring one which is too big for me and hence lying unused.

Budget 6-7K or thereabouts.

Snug Fit, armor (quality, placement, and anchoring in place), ventilation (zippered vents vs mesh), and waterproofness (treated outer shell vs internal zip-out detachable layer). A zip-out detachable warm thermal layer would be great too, though its a good to have and not a must-have.

Please let me have your suggestions, pros and cons.

Thanks!

[the VTEC guy]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Guys please suggest a good jacket. Available readily here. Its a stop gap replacement for my current imported waterproof touring one which is too big for me and hence lying unused.

Budget 6-7K or thereabouts.

Snug Fit, armor (quality, placement, and anchoring in place), ventilation (zippered vents vs mesh), and waterproofness (treated outer shell vs internal zip-out detachable layer). A zip-out detachable warm thermal layer would be great too, though its a good to have and not a must-have.

Please let me have your suggestions, pros and cons.

Thanks!

Doc I would suggest you can just walk to the Planet DSG shop near your house and look at the new DSG jackets. DSG Genesis, DSG phoenix water proof. And last I spoke with Planet DSG they were about to get new designs of AStar jackets by first week of August. You can check those as well.
Also try the SPG jackets at Moto101 at Dhole Patil road. I guess you must already aware of Cramster and Zues jackets retailers in Pune.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by the VTEC guy

Doc I would suggest you can just walk to the Planet DSG shop near your house and look at the new DSG jackets. DSG Genesis, DSG phoenix water proof. And last I spoke with Planet DSG they were about to get new designs of AStar jackets by first week of August. You can check those as well.
Also try the SPG jackets at Moto101 at Dhole Patil road. I guess you must already aware of Cramster and Zues jackets retailers in Pune.

Thanks bro.

Tried out the DSG ones (Triton, Genesis, Phoenix, and the Nero as well). I do find the DSG stuff overpriced for what they offer.

Tried out the Cramster Breezer and K2K as well at the Cramster outlets.

The K2K fits well, looks well built and is perfect as a touring type enduro style jacket (like the Triton), but the fact that its not waterproof (lots of complaints as well) is putting me off. The Triton is supposed to be waterproof but I guess you never really know till you actualy get wet (or not) in the real world. Once you've already bought it .......

Also checked out RJays Swift but found it too basic.

Checked out Zeus stuff with a friend of mine. The armor says CE but looked suspect to me at least.

Did not get to check out the Rynox jackets. I hear they have a mesh one only now (Tornado). The old textile one (Stealth) looked so mch better to me, but has been discontinued.

Now waiting to try out the AGV Sport Solare at Paddock (heard they closed down?) and for the Spartan stocks to arrive at Pro Biking/Moto 101. Wanted to especially see and try out the Helios and the Icarus (not so much the entry level Atlas).

[aargee]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Guys please suggest a good jacket. Available readily here. Its a stop gap replacement for my current imported waterproof touring one which is too big for me and hence lying unused.

Budget 6-7K or thereabouts.

I would suggest getting one from abroad; anyway local makes, SPG has Knox armor & is known to do its job dutifully. Helios + inner lining makes it water proof for sure, but not sweat proof

Please check Zeus brand, you might find something useful, though I've no first hand experience with any of them.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by aargee

I would suggest getting one from abroad; anyway local makes, SPG has Knox armor & is known to do its job dutifully. Helios + inner lining makes it water proof for sure, but not sweat proof

Please check Zeus brand, you might find something useful, though I've no first hand experience with any of them.

I heard you can get a thermal layer extra also directly from the company for 500 odd bucks? Is that a zippable layer or a separate garment like the rain layer? How waterproof is the rain layer? What is the basic difference between the Icarus and the Helios? Just the armor mainly?

[aargee]

Originally Posted by ebonho

I heard you can get a thermal layer extra also directly from the company for 500 odd bucks?

Yes, if you can get one; I've been trying to get for last 3+ months & they always keep saying, there's none in stock

Originally Posted by ebonho

How waterproof is the rain layer?

Rain layer? I meant the inner lining, yes, its good for the money we're paying; but personally, I've been using the inner lining from my Joe Rocket & Power Trip which is extra awesome

Originally Posted by ebonho

What is the basic difference between the Icarus and the Helios? Just the armor mainly?

Helios - I've been using it since 37K Km on CBR, right now its what...73.5K, so that makes about 37K km; when I bought it, I bought it with Helios + Knox upgraded (peanuts, Rs 600 or so for upgrade); except for the elastics at the arms that has elongated like a thread & the long sleeve hanging; additionally the zipper has worn out at the top, so the zipper unzips itself within 5-7 Km ride. The inner water proof pockets...super awesome, I've torture tested it till date & firmly believe it does its job. Other than this, I've no issues. Review the Joe Rocket Reactor 2.0 & replace the leathers with codura material = Helios!!

Icarus - From what I've been told is, Icarus + additional features (like hook under the jacket, collar liner etc) = Helios. Icarus was bought to fill in the gap of an affordable mesh jacket between textile jacket & Helios; other than this, I do not know anything else as I don't own this product.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by ebonho

What is the basic difference between the Icarus and the Helios? Just the armor mainly?

Mostly the armour, yes (Knox vs "regular"). Some creature comforts though like microfiber collar to avoid chafing, pockets for phones, sunglasses and what not. Also, the material used in the impact area seems to be a mash up of Cordura + Dynatec in Helios (more abrasion resistance?) vs only Cordura in Icarus (not sure of the denier, tightness of the mesh weave etc)

Plus, Helios is available in a whole array of colours. Between the 2, I would pick the Icarus if I can upgrade the armour to Knox (and obviously get a proper back protector too). To me, lesser the pockets (especially the waterproof ones) in a mesh jacket the better. Putting in huge pockets that dont allow a lot of air movement kind of defeats the purpose of a mesh jacket for me

Hope this helps

[bik1906]

Hi since someone mentioned Zeus I thought Id do a quick review of my Zeus Apollo first ride impressions and upgrades!!

Before someone opens a can of worms about how I could have got the Helios at 1500 more, I wanted a longer jacket on a pet peeve of mine so the Helios was out of the running.

In terms of the cordura itself no problems and the 800D seems up to spec. Had no problems in terms of being water resistant with a light rain on the way to Ambur. As you can see in the pics the number of pockets provided (8) seems to aim at eliminating saddlebags completely!! The vents worked well in the humid aftermath of the drizzle as well as when the sun showed up on the way back to Bangalore. All the velcro adjustment straps as well are pretty decent quality and stay put. YKK zips seems to be the standard these days on any half decent apparel so I dont think that should even be quoted as a feature.

A couple of small niggles is firstly the lining inside the jacket keeps getting caught on the velcro overlap outside and this results in the lining fabric shedding a bit. Secondly as an extension of this the zip to hook up to the zeus pants has been sewed onto the lining fabric itself so I dont know how this will hold up once a pant is hooked up to it.

Now for the major one...on the zeus website they claim CE level 1 protection for the shoulders and wrist and then for some odd reason say level 2 for the spine. I was skeptical and on pulling out the foam it definitely doesn't spec up to anywhere near what was claimed. A mail to the manufacturer went unanswered and as I was pretty happy with the jacket itself I did a few measurements and managed to source a RS Taichi spine protector on Ebay which fits like a glove in place of the original. While being an expensive upgrade the Taichi is Level 2 so I can ride in a peaceful frame of mind. Therefore a shout out to those looking to pick up a Zeus is to open up the jacket and check the Armour before making a decision. After all protection is the primary reason you buy a jacket in the first place.

[mobike008]

Here are a few pictures of jackets that I bought from the US for really VFM prices

X-Element Jacket

I wanted a high visibility secondary jacket with lot of reflective material and high-Viz color that can be used both in day and especially at night

Since my current jacket is X-Element, I was happy with its quality so got this one. It's heavily meshed, light weight and has CE approved armour on shoulder and elbows

Overall, its not a heavily protective jacket but, meant for short rides







AGV Sport Laguna Jacket is going to be my primary jacket as its fanastic built quality, heavily armoured with lot of protection around and has good reflective material and perfect for long rides

[aargee]

Originally Posted by bik1906

Before someone opens a can of worms...a pet peeve of mine so the Helios was out of the running

Yes, the one you bought is proper touring jacket & SPG doesn't have one & neither Helios will satisfy it.

Originally Posted by bik1906

In terms of the cordura itself no problems and the 800D seems up to spec

Not to offend, but to bring few things to lime light...Pls see the description in the website it says "800 D Ballistic Cordura" & the word "Ballistic" makes the difference; as mostly Ballistic goes with Nylon & not with Cordura.

Anyway, if you know how to identify the difference between Cordura & Ballistic Nylon & can share here...much appreciated.

[SunnyBoi]

Originally Posted by bik1906

Hi since someone mentioned Zeus I thought Id do a quick review of my Zeus Apollo first ride impressions and upgrades!!

Before someone opens a can of worms about how I could have got the Helios at 1500 more, I wanted a longer jacket on a pet peeve of mine so the Helios was out of the running.

Nice choice. Can you give me pointers on how much the jacket and the spine protector cost and where I can source them from Bangalore?

[ebonho]

Thanks for the details aargee.

Originally Posted by aargee

Yes, if you can get one; I've been trying to get for last 3+ months & they always keep saying, there's none in stock

How much does it cost? Can it be worn as a separate garment like the rain liner?

Rain layer? I meant the inner lining, yes, its good for the money we're paying;

I meant the inner rain liner that can actually be worn like a separate garment (like a windcheater). How waterproof is that in heavy-ish rains?

Helios - I've been using it since 37K Km on CBR, right now its what...73.5K, so that makes about 37K km; when I bought it, I bought it with Helios + Knox upgraded (peanuts, Rs 600 or so for upgrade)

This was when the Helios did not come with Knox armor - like the Icarus today? So the Icarus too can be upgraded in just 600 bucks?

; except for the elastics at the arms that has elongated like a thread & the long sleeve hanging

I did not get this part. Which arm elastic? The one at the cuff? I thought that has a zip and velcro.

additionally the zipper has worn out at the top, so the zipper unzips itself within 5-7 Km ride.

Thats the main fastener of any jacket. That is not a small issue bro. Its a serious issue if you have to keep pulling it up every 5-7 kms. Its as good (bad) as riding with a front open jacket, protection wise (forget wind).

like hook under the jacket

Did not get this. What's that?

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Between the 2, I would pick the Icarus if I can upgrade the armour to Knox (and obviously get a proper back protector too).

I would too. But can you? And for how much more?

Hope this helps

It does. A lot. Thanks Urban.

To both of you, what are your opinions on the Breezer 4S against these two Spartans (Helios and Icarus)?

Cost wise at around 6K its somewhere in between the two (4.8K and 6.8K). Has CE rated shoulder and elbow armor. And has both rain layer as well as thermal layer already in built as features.

Originally Posted by bik1906

Hi since someone mentioned Zeus I thought Id do a quick review of my Zeus Apollo first ride impressions and upgrades!!

Before someone opens a can of worms about how I could have got the Helios at 1500 more, I wanted a longer jacket on a pet peeve of mine so the Helios was out of the running.

Thanks for the detailed review buddy. You say you could have got Helios at 1500 more. Considering Helios's MRSP is 6800 bucks, did you get the Apollo at 5300?

Had no problems in terms of being water resistant with a light rain on the way to Ambur.

Is it water resistant or water proof? From the photos it seems as the inner rain layer here too can be worn as a separate windcheater style garment without zippping to the jacket - true? Have you tried it yet in heavy rains? Does/did water get through?

The vents worked well in the humid aftermath of the drizzle as well as when the sun showed up on the way back to Bangalore.

Just to confirm, they are on the sleeve forearms (2), on the upper chest (2 horizontal and 2 vertical), and the back (1 horizontal across the upper back) right?

Now for the major one...on the zeus website they claim CE level 1 protection for the shoulders and wrist and then for some odd reason say level 2 for the spine. I was skeptical and on pulling out the foam it definitely doesn't spec up to anywhere near what was claimed. A mail to the manufacturer went unanswered and as I was pretty happy with the jacket itself I did a few measurements and managed to source a RS Taichi spine protector on Ebay which fits like a glove in place of the original. While being an expensive upgrade the Taichi is Level 2 so I can ride in a peaceful frame of mind. Therefore a shout out to those looking to pick up a Zeus is to open up the jacket and check the Armour before making a decision. After all protection is the primary reason you buy a jacket in the first place.

Can you please post photos of the elbow and shoulder armor here for us? That would be great.

Overall, I do find this jacket feature rich, though like for the All Terrain of their (which I did try on) I found the armor suspect and uncomfortable (pinching into my forearm). Also it seems to not be well fitted from the photos - don't know how it fits you in real though.

So the obvious question here - in this class of riding jackets we have two more established competitors - the Cramster K2K and the DSG Triton. Can you give us some pointers on why you did not go with either of them instead?

[aargee]

Originally Posted by ebonho

How much does it cost? Can it be worn as a separate garment like the rain liner?

Sir, no idea about the cost, but yes, it can be work like a separate garment; basically it's called the QUILT in RJays riding jackets

Originally Posted by ebonho

I meant the inner rain liner that can actually be worn like a separate garment (like a windcheater). How waterproof is that in heavy-ish rains?

I don't know about SPGs, but the one I use is from Joe Rocket, its super protective. But from my minuscule experience, I tell you, nothing, absolutely nothing beats 2 or 1 piece rain coat.

I'm saying this after...
1. Using rain liners with Jacket with good protection in mild rains
2. Tourmaster single piece raincoat (I still have it; only problem is wearing & removing, but once worn, its awesome); provides excellent protection in heavy rains...to an extent
3. 2 piece rain coat, it's trade off between 1 & 2

Though haven't used (and not intended to buy), get a goretex material one piece rain coat & you'll have all smiles when you ride.

Last but not the least, if the intention is to stay dry during rains...please use car. No riding gears can provide 100% dry & nothing can stay against the force of Mother Nature. I'm saying this after riding through rains day after day for over 12 days (got tired & its irritating to ride in rains now)

Originally Posted by ebonho

This was when the Helios did not come with Knox armor - like the Icarus today? So the Icarus too can be upgraded in just 600 bucks?

Yes, when I bought Helios, Knox was available as upgrade; CONFIRMED that, Helios is now available with Knox ONLY & Icarus comes with standard armors with NO option to upgrade to Knox (called & verified)

Originally Posted by ebonho

I did not get this part. Which arm elastic? The one at the cuff? I thought that has a zip and velcro.

Elbow; elastic & velcro

Originally Posted by ebonho

Thats the main fastener of any jacket. That is not a small issue bro. Its a serious issue if you have to keep pulling it up every 5-7 kms. Its as good (bad) as riding with a front open jacket, protection wise

I don't think so; I have had JR & Powertrip & JR still holds good today & zipper stays right there.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Did not get this. What's that?

Under the jacket, there's a small hook, basically to hang up gloves or keys

Originally Posted by ebonho

To both of you, what are your opinions on the Breezer 4S against these two Spartans (Helios and Icarus)?

Any day, I don't favor Crapster; after having used their MX3, that lasted only 5 months (while DSG Revive refused to give up after 25K+ & SPG Aries after 37K km), Stallion burnt by Rx's exhaust & Colt burnt by CBR's exhaust, I simply will not recommend their product to anyone. Thankfully both the saddles got burnt when returning to Madras, otherwise...

And remember, Zeus Apollo is pure TOURING JACKET, like I said, almost no one makes that in India for now; and if you look at the features of a touring jacket, nothing, absolutely no jacket beats in terms of creature comforts of any touring jacket.

[ebonho]

Doc is fine bro. No Sir please.

Originally Posted by aargee

Sir, no idea about the cost, but yes, it can be work like a separate garment; basically it's called the QUILT in RJays riding jackets

It can only be worn as a separate garment if the zipper can actually zip together (as against zipping against the one on the inside of the outer shell.

I have seen this only in the rain liner of the RJays Octane mesh jacket. Which does not have a quilted layer.

I don't know about SPGs

Wanted to know about the SPG specifically.

Last but not the least, if the intention is to stay dry during rains...please use car.

That's like saying please add two wheels to the bike if you do not want to go down.

Do you want to go down? I'm guessing No.

Do you still ride a bike and do your best not to go down? I'm guessing Yes.

So yes, like any other rider, I detest that moment when the first cold drop of water reaches my chaddis and will always try all I can (and can afford) to prevent (or delay) that.

Yes, when I bought Helios, Knox was available as upgrade; CONFIRMED that, Helios is now available with Knox ONLY & Icarus comes with standard armors with NO option to upgrade to Knox (called & verified)

Thanks for confirming.

Elbow; elastic & velcro

As I mentioned before, I prefer snap-on adjusters compared to strap and elastic and velcro for exactly this reason. The Icarus (and even the Atlas) score over the Helios here.

I don't think so; I have had JR & Powertrip & JR still holds good today & zipper stays right there.

Exactly what I meant. The main front zip going (regardless of usage and kms) is NOT acceptable. It is a major issue, not a minor one.

Under the jacket, there's a small hook, basically to hang up gloves or keys

Aaah ok.

Any day, I don't favor Crapster; after having used their MX3, that lasted only 5 months (while DSG Revive refused to give up after 25K+ & SPG Aries after 37K km), Stallion burnt by Rx's exhaust & Colt burnt by CBR's exhaust, I simply will not recommend their product to anyone. Thankfully both the saddles got burnt when returning to Madras, otherwise...

So you've never tried a Cramster jacket yet and your feedback is based on a pair of gloves and two saddlebags. To be fair, aside from the gloves, both the saddlebags got burnt. They did not give way. Or any other malfunction. So yes, it could be a design issue. But not a manufacturing one. Or maybe they simply slipped to one side. Or were overloaded. Either way, I have no reason to defend Cramster. Its just another company whose product I am loking at and evaluating based on the information and experiences out there.

And remember, Zeus Apollo is pure TOURING JACKET, like I said, almost no one makes that in India for now; and if you look at the features of a touring jacket, nothing, absolutely no jacket beats in terms of creature comforts of any touring jacket.

As I mentioned and asked in my earlier post - the DSG Triton and the Cramster K2K are proper touring jackets in the classic/long 3/4 "frock" style (gathered at the waist) mould. With all of the same features and pockets and liners and stuff as the Apolo. Both also lok better cut/fitted than the Apollo does. K2K is supposed to be water resistant, while Triton is supposed to be water proof. Would like to know the reality based on user experience. That's always the litmus test.