[Swanand Inamdar]

I agree with the others on this. Such feature rich cares simply take out the driving pleasure from one. I for one would not opt for such a system, regardless of the cost invloved.
As fellow member Dot mentioned, even if my future car came with such features, I am highly likely to disable those. I would never like the feeling of just holding the steering and letting the car do the rest. Not my piece of cake. NO.

[DKG]

Appreciating the intent behind this thread I have a suggestion to make and perhaps you could design this device. What we need is all roads to have speed control towers installed that emit a signal that can be picked up by a car. The device on the car then can apply the speed limit to the throttle and prevent road users from crossing the recommended speed limit. This alone will dramatically reduce incidence of accidents.

The second recommended device I'd like to see developed is a super sensitive sensor that picks up traces of alcohol in air in the car and automatically immobilises the car. This will prevent people who have consumed alcohol from driving. With multizone climate control possible within a car's cabin surely the weightage on alcohold content in air around the driver's seat can be given.

A third element is monitoring eyelid movement of driver. If a sensor picks up notice of eyes being shut for more than a few seconds the car should shut down.

Basically Vina the future of vehicle safety devices I feel is communication between roads and vehicles and vehicle to vehicle. Electronics taking control of a situation to avert a disaster is a bit dicey as the parameters in an accident situation are too varied to have any set of algorithms appropriately interpret a situation and accurately determine a control response.

For the next generation of navigation systems I'd like to see a virtual map of the road ahead get created with an image of cars up ahead. That should provide drivers with some forewarning

[brraj]

I would love to have those features at max price of 50k.

[niranjanrvce]

Originally Posted by vina

how I wish, but alas !

some years ago I was with a company and they were doing a some collision detection stuff for Visteon (we were doing AI/imaging/sensing/algorithms, not mechanicals) - I helped the guys with some modelling problems (for like two days - they may not even remember but I was intrigued).

FYI, GOI has allotted a budget of around 10 lakhs to do research and build a prototype of an anti-collision system. This research is being carried out by a bunch of people who are seeking investment from private parties as well. I don't really know how useful this will be or what GOI intends to do with such a prototype. I saw your thread and thought it was you doing this!

[MaserQ]

10 lakhs is a measly amount to be spending on anti-collision research. GOI must be looking ahead, like 10-15 years into the future, as that is the usual gestation period from the planning stage to actual implementation.

For now, ABS, airbags, traction control and sleep detection is what I would put my money on. All this for an extra 50-60k in a Rs.10lac car.

[selfdrive]

To answer your question, I would not pay for a device such as this if it controls only my vehicle, which I should anyway be alert enough to do.

I would pay upto 30K extra for such a system if it also prevented other vehicles from hitting me/ my car (from the sides/ rear). Let me know if my assumptions about this system are off the mark

Normally I can anticipate things happening in front of me, but there are "blind moments" at the rear when any moron can zoom in within the exact nano second (pun unintended) that I dont look in the ORVMs

[mb_jg]

I would really like these security\safety systems in my next car. But what bothers me more is that, where at one hand we are becoming safety conscious on the other hand we are becoming more aggressive with our driving. So where is the trade off?
Good to have collision avoidance system, but I am thinking, with the huge number of distractions on the road (people walking\cutting infront of vehicles, dogs, cats, cattle, etc, etc) the car will probably get fed up of braking & walk away on you.
I would love the blind spot warning system that the Q7 has, I have faced numerable instances where I have missed judging another car's presence just because it was in my blind spot.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by vina

so between 30k to 50k?

Yes, ~30k for a 10L car. ie, about 2-3% of cost.

Originally Posted by vina

... A collision avoidance system can easily save 0.3s ....

Originally Posted by dot

The reason is there are way too many parameters that goes in determining whether a particular situation demands a emergency response or not. How will the car computer determine how severe is the situation to deploy the "collision avoidance" system.

Vina, I agree that if everything goes fine, and is according the algorithm, the system will save precious milliseconds. but, as dot suggested, arnt there way too many parameters in evaluating a situation.

Here's a useful read on a similar topic. BMW Car-2-X Communication improves pedestrian safety , but I doubt, it can be implemented for 30k or 50k.

Originally Posted by DKG

The second recommended device I'd like to see developed is a super sensitive sensor that picks up traces of alcohol in air in the car and automatically immobilises the car....
.... weightage on alcohold content in air around the driver's seat can be given.

I doubt the practicality of this. Neverthless, highly useful if someone actually manages to implement it. IMO, 75% of road accidents happend due to drunken driving.

Originally Posted by DKG

A third element is monitoring eyelid movement of driver. If a sensor picks up notice of eyes being shut for more than a few seconds the car should shut down.

I believe this feature is currently implemented successfully in some high end cars?

[vina]

Originally Posted by niranjanrvce

FYI, GOI has allotted a budget of around 10 lakhs to do research and build a prototype of an anti-collision system. This research is being carried out by a bunch of people who are seeking investment from private parties as well. I don't really know how useful this will be or what GOI intends to do with such a prototype. I saw your thread and thought it was you doing this!

I got it from your first email - what I meant was I'm not the sarkari daamaad enjoying the cash !

Thanks for the information BTW.

[vina]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Yes, ~30k for a 10L car. ie, about 2-3% of cost.

Thanks for the numbers.


Vina, I agree that if everything goes fine, and is according the algorithm, the system will save precious milliseconds. but, as dot suggested, arnt there way too many parameters in evaluating a situation.

well actually there may not be in a majority of accidents. statistical analysis of accidents (insurance companies and automobile companies both do that) repeatedly throws back some patterns. And if you can eliminate some scenarios, you get huge gains.

Here's a useful read on a similar topic. BMW Car-2-X Communication improves pedestrian safety , but I doubt, it can be implemented for 30k or 50k.

see the technology will get cheaper some day, but do you even appreciate such a feature, and if you do how much money are you willing to put on it. but you've already answered.

I doubt the practicality of this. Neverthless, highly useful if someone actually manages to implement it. IMO, 75% of road accidents happend due to drunken driving.

It has been done - there are problems.

I believe this feature is currently implemented successfully in some high end cars?

The last one is also implemented in several cars (I'm not sure whether it is mandatory yet in US).

Also lane departure warning is implemented too.

[vina]

Originally Posted by DKG

Appreciating the intent behind this thread I have a suggestion to make and perhaps you could design this device. What we need is all roads to have speed control towers installed that emit a signal that can be picked up by a car. The device on the car then can apply the speed limit to the throttle and prevent road users from crossing the recommended speed limit. This alone will dramatically reduce incidence of accidents.

Thanks, and what you tell is a good idea. However this is a little too complex right now - measuring the speed is straight forward, the implementation has issues of compatibility, fitting into old cars etc. On top of that there are are political and regulatory problems.

The second recommended device I'd like to see developed is a super sensitive sensor that picks up traces of alcohol in air in the car and automatically immobilises the car. This will prevent people who have consumed alcohol from driving. With multizone climate control possible within a car's cabin surely the weightage on alcohold content in air around the driver's seat can be given.

It is in fact surprisingly easy and people tried that - problem is if you are trying to get your drunk brother home, car wont start. If somebody dropped some alcohol on your car, car wont start (this can become a prank and can get really dangerous)....

The next extension of the idea was to measure the alcohol content on the driver and there is no reliable way there. e.g. breath analysers can be fooled (you are drunk I'm not, I use the analyser you drive) sweat analysers are fickle ....

Believe me on this - the day anything reliable is found it'll almost immediately become mandatory.


A third element is monitoring eyelid movement of driver. If a sensor picks up notice of eyes being shut for more than a few seconds the car should shut down.

There are detectors for this - they measure not just whether the eyes are shut, but also whether the eyes have not been shut for too long (this is a test of mental state). Most of them are found on commercial vehicles.



Basically Vina the future of vehicle safety devices I feel is communication between roads and vehicles and vehicle to vehicle. Electronics taking control of a situation to avert a disaster is a bit dicey as the parameters in an accident situation are too varied to have any set of algorithms appropriately interpret a situation and accurately determine a control response.

You are right - the first thing you started with is a part of the future you are talking about here.
One the second part - there are common sense things that are known that can work in most accidents - however the driver just can not have the attention span and reaction time to deal with them. That's the part these guys are trying to deal with.


For the next generation of navigation systems I'd like to see a virtual map of the road ahead get created with an image of cars up ahead. That should provide drivers with some forewarning

that'll definitely provide you with info on where not to go to avoid a traffic jam

[kaushikkrishnan]

Originally Posted by vina

such systems exist only on very high end car right now (ABS/ESC/Airbags all existed on high end only in their initial phases).

In India Vovle XC60 has it, and so do Mercedes E-class and S-class

I don't know the price but the components are expensive (at the moment) and fast processor (unlike the plain-jane microcontroller that makes up the ECU) is needed for processing.

At the moment all systems are different, so they behave differently but some features (may not exist in all systems) are:

1. continuous monitoring of distance to front obstacles (including vehicles in front)
2. continuous monitoring of vehicle speed, environmental conditions and driver behaviour
   1. 1. different algorithms when system deems driver is doing something risky - e.g. overtaking, sudden speeding, turning ... scenarios where driver attention is likely to be narrowly focused and unseen hazards can exist
      2. Fog, lighting conditions
3. ...

these are intelligent systems - the algorithms are not simple.

for example if you are driving and somebody comes in front, the most you can do is brake, if it is risky to swerve (ditch on one side, oncoming traffic on the other), and hit the front vehicle.

What collision avoidance system will do is it'll apply brakes partially at first before you can even notice (human vision processing delay) and if you don't do anything at all then it'll apply brakes fully. HOWEVER if it calculates that high speed collision is unavoidable (slippery roads for example) then it'll pitch the nose of your car down just before impact (front brakes engaged, rear brakes released) - making the accident less severe for the passenger.

Very good feature list and i am sure that i will buy these at some point of time

I bought a Zxi Swift in 2006 paying almost a lakh more at that time due to the safety features which existed in it and do not regret it.

I personally will not buy any safety feature such as the ones that you have mentioned without it being factory integrated and tested well. Yes i am willing to pay for such features

What i would at this point like to have the most is night vision, anti collision, ABS, Airbags and traction control

For all these put together on a good entry level sedan i am willing to pay a lakh

At the end of the day you can drive a bit more confidently and human life whether mine or any one else's is invaluable

[gsb350]

I Agree with kaushikkrishnan that i would pay over a Lakh if the system was factory fitted and not as an after market. If you look back 10-15 years ABS was available on high end cars only and it was an option. The scenario right now is different.

Originally Posted by kaushikkrishnan

Very good feature list and i am sure that i will buy these at some point of time

I bought a Zxi Swift in 2006 paying almost a lakh more at that time due to the safety features which existed in it and do not regret it.

I personally will not buy any safety feature such as the ones that you have mentioned without it being factory integrated and tested well. Yes i am willing to pay for such features

What i would at this point like to have the most is night vision, anti collision, ABS, Airbags and traction control

For all these put together on a good entry level sedan i am willing to pay a lakh

At the end of the day you can drive a bit more confidently and human life whether mine or any one else's is invaluable

[vina]

Originally Posted by gsb350

I Agree with kaushikkrishnan that i would pay over a Lakh if the system was factory fitted and not as an after market. If you look back 10-15 years ABS was available on high end cars only and it was an option. The scenario right now is different.

Great.

either way great - the point is are you willing to put serious money where your mouth is - and you say you are.

[vb-saan]

I am definitely willing to pay a premium for the said safety systems. I saw some views like 'I am confident of my driving and hence I don’t need extra assistance from any fancy systems’. Well, if the other party involved in an accident is faulty, or does not have enough skills, nothing much can be done.

That said, I will prefer these systems to be factory fitted, and not aftermarket additions. And at this point, only a selected few expensive cars have this option. I remember reading in Volvo website that the XC60’s insurance premium is way below its competition (they have mentioned BMW X3 and Audi Q5) because of its additional safety features.