[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by freewheelburnin

1)Comfort on bad roads
2)Ground clearance should be good
3)Diesel(cheaper fuel)
4)Should not be very expensive to maintain.

Is any car available presently which can meet these needs?

Oh yes, certainly and the Bangalore based owners are enough proof of its performance. Try the Ikon TDCI. It sits high, drinks diesel meagerly and is a decent performer along with good comfort. Need something better, try a used Laura. It can manage most speed breakers at Bangalore.
But your Safari is already in, so.....next time probably.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Correct, very true. Which is why I use public transport on a daily basis to office, try to use my Bullet only for weekend/highway drives and hardly use my Cielo.
Thank you for letting my publish my personal "Carbon FootPrint". I take pride in it.



RE:Here comes the "Wow" again.Habits-something we get away with very easily. Throw garbage on the road-habit-cant change easily, Misuse electricity-habit-cant change easily. Stand too close to people and push them around-habit-cant change easily so lets be the way we are-the "Chalta Hai" factor, "Wow".
Bad habits need to change and the sooner we do it the better, for others and for us. And we have been taught this since school.

America and Americans have faced and are facing the consequences of this one word-Lifestyle-. It is something which the entire world is witness to. The sooner we make our lifestyle efficient, greener and socially responsible, all the better for us.

Hats off to you, and Hear Hear, to the rest of your post. Please figure out how to use the quote feature to make it as readable as it deserves to be.
On a separate subject of Americans. There is lot that is wrong with them, and even more with their government, but should we not look to see what is good in them that we can emulate? For instance they do treat individuals as unique, and worthy of respect on that basis, and do provide them with space - physical and otherwise. As do people in many other countries that we look down on in our "we are a 5000 year old civilization when you were living in the jungles" mindset.
Indeed, our entire road culture is just a subset/mirror of our generally atrocious public behaviour.

[freewheelburnin]

Devnath,
The ikon diesel is more expensive to maintain than a safari and comfort on bad roads is pretty decent i must say.But if you take the ikon to the kind of roads around my place the dampers will need replacement very often.
Laura is definitely good and yes a used one for sub 10 lakhs is a good choice for a car(if spares are not cosidered).But how will i afford the exhorbitant repair bills?When skoda does not warranty even a new car how can i expect my old car to be under warranty(Experiences on the forum say so)?A neighbour of my uncle owns a laura, a lancer and a BMW(3 series i think.While BMW is used by his son, he uses lancer diesel for all long drives as Laura back seat is not as comfortable as a lancer's.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Oh yes, certainly and the Bangalore based owners are enough proof of its performance. Try the Ikon TDCI. It sits high, drinks diesel meagerly and is a decent performer along with good comfort. Need something better, try a used Laura. It can manage most speed breakers at Bangalore.
But your Safari is already in, so.....next time probably.

[Sawyer]

I happen to be reading a book at this moment, that suggests that all humans first make up their minds on an issue, and then look around to construct a set of arguments in support of that decision. While believing themselves to be creatures that do just the opposite.
How very true is apparent from the behaviour of people in this forum, on this thread. I include myself in that, let me say that right away.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by freewheelburnin

Devnath,
The ikon diesel is more expensive to maintain than a safari and comfort on bad roads is pretty decent i must say.But if you take the ikon to the kind of roads around my place the dampers will need replacement very often.
Laura is definitely good and yes a used one for sub 10 lakhs is a good choice for a car(if spares are not cosidered).But how will i afford the exhorbitant repair bills?When skoda does not warranty even a new car how can i expect my old car to be under warranty(Experiences on the forum say so)?A neighbour of my uncle owns a laura, a lancer and a BMW(3 series i think.While BMW is used by his son, he uses lancer diesel for all long drives as Laura back seat is not as comfortable as a lancer's.

As far as the Skoda subject is concerned it is certainly debatable as quite a few of us at the forum have had issues, yet the Laura continues to sell like hot cakes. It is indeed expensive, I agree.
Coming to the Ikon Diesel, there was an extensive comparison of the spare part prices done by a mag around 6 months ago and the new Ikon diesel spares (service, accidental damage and routine replacement) are much cheaper than most sedans in its segment, forget the SUVs. I can send you the details if you need them.
Also, it has come out as among the most reliable entry level cars in the JD Power Survey for 2009, hence is certainly a proven product.

Also, its better fuel efficiency will not only save your pocket but also the earth.

[diabloo]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I happen to be reading a book at this moment, that suggests that all humans first make up their minds on an issue, and then look around to construct a set of arguments in support of that decision. While believing themselves to be creatures that do just the opposite.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes.

BTW, people have seen more SUV overturned than sedans. Hence the perception that SUVs are unsafe than sedan.

[amitoj]

Isnt the answer to the title of the thread quite simple? Although the recent posts seem to have nothing to do with the title.

In a collision between an SUV and a sedan, an SUV is marginally safer, mainly due to its height and bulk. But in case of standalone accidents (like losing control and falling into a ditch), a sedan is safer than an SUV, again for the same points for which an SUV is safer in a collision with a sedan.

[ravibhat]

There is rule to drive any type of automobile and every one has certain limit. So If we drive by studying the Sedan/SUV one can avoid many accidents.

According to me SUV is safer than Sedan and more comfortable too provided we drive with 60-80kmph range and Sedan 80-100kmph range. Anything beyond 100kmph is not advisable at least next 5 or 10 years untill Indian 4 lane highways get scientific design.

I remember my driver's max speed in Omni (2003-04) was around 60to70kmph but still we reached 650km drive in 13 hours with mor than 2 hrs break. Santro and Swift reached around 90kmph where Innove touched 90kmph in good roads. My other drive touched 130kmph in Innova and he said its is super stable but I am comfortable untill 100kmph in Innova and 120kmph in Swift or Sedan in really good roads.

Ravi.

[freewheelburnin]

Devdath, I am not defying your J.D power survey, but Ikon diesel as a new car is a strict no no for me.It's looks are quite aged.In that case i could have retained my lancer.It gave me zero problems except for an oil sump break due to a large stone, which was covered by insurance.The service was simply splendid and a lancer in my opinion looks better than an IKON(looks are subjective).If ford phases out the Ikon following the launch of the new Fiesta then spares will be hard to find. For me a car is also a matter of a balance between your heart and your head.The only cars which appeal to me are
1)Mitsubishi Cedia(Handling ,Handling,Handling, EMI + fuel =high running cost)
2)Optra Magnum( Good engine,Bad handling ,oil sump design is bad)
3)Honda civic (Low g.c,higher cost)
4)Fiat Adventure(Out of production)
5)Tata Safari(Good looks,Ground clearance,Comfort,relatively lesser running cost than a petrol sedan)
6)Skoda( was not considered at all not because i don't like the car but because of the service costs.A friend of mine who happens to be a Realtor uses Octavia as his only car.He likes the car a lot but hates the A.S.S.If he is finding it so expensive to maintain then forget about me)
7)Honda city(C segment car with non independent suspension and no diesel option)
8)Ford Fiesta (I liked the petrol sport version but felt the diesel a bit underpowered).

[freewheelburnin]

If you have travelled between bangalore to cochin anytime recently you will understand the need for an SUV well.Last time we traveled the route in my wife's Santro as we had bought a safari and wanted to return the car back to my mother in law.The same roads where the Safari had glided through so comfortably, the santro scraped.It was so horrible that we had to go dead slow through long stretches.The same road a week back was comfortably travelled on a Safari and I did not even realize it was so bad.That's when i really thanked myself for not buying any other car.If a Ford ikon could travel those bad stretches comfortably i think it would be the best car in India then, cos when i was in the safari i could spot a C class struggling while i was travelling at around 60 Kmph and staring down at the poor car

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by freewheelburnin

If you have travelled between bangalore to cochin anywhere recently you will understand the need of an SUV well.Last time we went in my wife's Santro as we had bought a safari and wanted to return the car back to my mother in law.The same roads where the Safari had glided through so comfortably, the santro scraped.It was so horrible that we had to go dead slow through long stretches.The same road a week back was comfortably travelled on a Safari and I did not even realize it was so bad.That's when i really thanked myself for not buying any other car.If a Ford ikon could travel those bad stretches comfortably i think it would be the best car in India then, cos when i was in the safari icould spot even a C class travelling dead slow while i could travel at around 60 Kmph and stare down at the poor car

A C-Class would obviously slow down buddy. One scrape to its underbelly and the owner would be poorer by a couple of lacs. It is cars with good GC that should be compared here.

[freewheelburnin]

The car you buy is need based.If city drive is all that is needed then buying an S.U.V does not justify.But for long drives on our Indian roads where the road conditions are not certain, there is nothing to beat an S.U.V to reach your destination comfortably and faster.

[freewheelburnin]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

A C-Class would obviously slow down buddy. One scrape to its underbelly and the owner would be poorer by a couple of lacs. It is cars with good GC that should be compared here.

I agree with you on the poor comparison , but i happened to notice this particular car as it was a C-Class.There was a certain Verna which was going at high triple digit speeds and overtook me.I caught up with him easily just cruising at 100 without even competing against him.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by freewheelburnin

The car you buy is need based.If city drive is all that is needed then buying an S.U.V does not justify.But for long drives on our Indian roads where the road conditions are not certain, there is nothing to beat an S.U.V to reach your destination comfortably and faster.

Well, first of all, thank you for understanding the idea of this post. SUVs being unjustified for city and good roads was the point a few of us were trying to drive home.
Coming to bad roads, depends how bad the road is, but if it cannot be called a road, then you have no option but to go for an MUV/SUV.

And the race between you and the Verna, I would refrain from commenting on it for the sake of road safety and bruising egos.

[KITE RUNNER]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Correct, very true. Which is why I use public transport on a daily basis to office, try to use my Bullet only for weekend/highway drives and hardly use my Cielo.

The point is very simple. This whim of the SUVs being safer in the city just because they "Tower" over smaller automobiles needs to be broken. They are a menace if not driven responsibly. They are good, like I mentioned for semi-urban areas and the like where the roads are really bad.


RE: Which is exactly the point here. We, as a forum need to arrive at justifiable opinions because we are viewed, analyzed and to a certain extent, emulated by many. Lets us understand that we have a social and environmental responsibility and not shirk from it on the basis of "to each his own"theory.


RE:Here comes the "Wow" again.Habits-something we get away with very easily. Throw garbage on the road-habit-cant change easily, Misuse electricity-habit-cant change easily. Stand too close to people and push them around-habit-cant change easily so lets be the way we are-the "Chalta Hai" factor, "Wow".
Bad habits need to change and the sooner we do it the better, for others and for us. And we have been taught this since school.

I fully agree with your views. If the public transport system in some areas are not good, we can at least try car pooling.

As responsible citizens, each and every one on this forum has the resposibility to spread awareness regarding road discipline and civic sense.

Let us initiate a change, where ever we are.

There is only one thing that makes a dream impossible to achieve: the fear of failure - a famous quote from The Alchemist.

Sawyer, we may be still in the 'jungle mind set', there is still a lot of hope left. A change is slowly happening. Highly appreciating your 'straight from the heart' discussions.