[themonster]

Hello, everyone.

This is regarding the below accident.

http://Youtu.be/fzQKLckksfE

I usually don't post on this thread, but I use this thread as a reminder that I am mortal and that the roads are dangerous.

A big shout of thanks to all the members who usually decipher the cause of the accidents and who always never fail to mention good driving habits on every page. It really helps to be reminded time and again about various methods of being safe.

Coming to the above accident; I do not want to judge whether they (the boys in the Maruti 800) were going fast and rash or not, but ideally, they should have braked and let the Creta driver go. The Creta driver appears to be trying to overtake the vehicle in front, but in the last moment (Must have not looked ahead). The Creta driver also failed to listen to the constant honks of the Maruti 800 and also appears to not have checked his Right ORVM. He had also started changing his lane without using his indicator. The Maruti 800 might have swerved to the right into the divider to avoid the Creta scrapping them in the final moment.

I am not sure whether the Creta driver had road rage or whether he was in a hurry (emergency), but it looks like he had shown the attitude of "Bigger vehicle". (Considering that he zoomed past them from the circle/roundabout/crossroad)

I have seen similar incidents before, but usually one of the parties involved have the sense of applying brakes.

I hope I would have added some useful input into the above scenario.

Also, my heart goes out to the families of the students who had passed away, truly a deep loss.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by Divya Sharan

The driver thankfully is alive and escaped with minor injuries.

I rarely consume aerated coo-drinks, but whenever I do, this is how the can will end up in my hand after I finish drinking it.
At 150+ speeds no car is safe, How could any human survive from this mangle!

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by Vik0728

Well paragsachania, I will not stir the "Hornets Nest" here about the speed, build quality, what was the driver thinking, etc.

Absolutely. Let the nest rest where it is .

I can vouch for the Build of these Europeans and have seen the worst of accidents where the driver comes out unscathed!

But since there is a mention of 150 KMPH, I made a point to say there will be specific discussions around that. In reality we all know what happens at 150 KMPH!

[Divya Sharan]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

150+ --> Waiting for another wonderful debate to start with details like speed at the time of accident and during the time of impact .

Originally Posted by Vik0728

Well paragsachania, I will not stir the "Hornets Nest" here about the speed, build quality, what was the driver thinking, etc.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

At 150+ speeds no car is safe, How could any human survive from this mangle!

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Absolutely. Let the nest rest where it is .

I can vouch for the Build of these Europeans and have seen the worst of accidents where the driver comes out unscathed!

But since there is a mention of 150 KMPH, I made a point to say there will be specific discussions around that. In reality we all know what happens at 150 KMPH!

I too agree with all members here. Determining speed from the mangled remains or word-of-mouth through locals is wrong. Hence I mentioned that it was a nasty accident at very high speeds (and put the guess-timated speed in brackets).

Also, IMHO; while Fiats are well built and heavy, such accidents cannot determine the safety of any car, be it a Punto or an S class because the forces involved at high speeds, angle of impact etc are big unknown variables to determine if the occupant comes out alive or not. This bloke was simply lucky!

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by Divya Sharan

Received the following pics over Whatsapp about a Fiat Punto Abarth having a nasty crash at super high speeds (150+ as per the message) somewhere along NH-2 on Sunday.

The driver thankfully is alive and escaped with minor injuries.

I know this guy and knew the specifics of the accident quite a while before it went viral on WhatsApp. There was no role of luck here. Fiat's build quality, airbags and seatbelts saved my friend.

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Waiting for another wonderful debate to start with details like speed at the time of accident and during the time of impact .

This is what most folks do, without the specifics, pass judgements on the vehicle, driver and cause unnecessary headache to the guy .

Originally Posted by Vik0728

Well paragsachania, I will not stir the "Hornets Nest" here about the speed, build quality, what was the driver thinking, etc.

I think this is a lesson for all of us here, rather than speculation on matters we won't ever know unless crash tests are introduced in India, its best if we advocate usage of the given safety features - eg. usage of rear seat belts, not having kids on lap (and on the front seats), etc.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

At 150+ speeds no car is safe, How could any human survive from this mangle!

The speed he was doing was around 80 km/h. The incident happened while overtaking a truck. The truck changed lanes without indicating. At 150 km/h I doubt he would have shared the pics / talked with me post the incident.


Here are some more pics he shot when he came out of the car:



I think what we can learn from this incident-
1. Seatbelts save lives
2. Indian highways are unpredictable

I am 100% sure that the next car he gets will be a Fiat. While many of us will comment about the safety of Fiats vs others, let me first put in that there are other cars out there that are equally safe, but here on our Indians roads, its best to err on the side of caution. Thats also a reason why I cruise at speeds on 80 km/h despite having an Abarth.

[Vysakh]

Originally Posted by themonster

I do not want to judge whether they (the boys in the Maruti 800) were going fast and rash or not, but ideally, they should have braked and let the Creta driver go.

Originally Posted by themonster

The Creta driver appears to be trying to overtake the vehicle in front, but in the last moment (Must have not looked ahead). The Creta driver also failed to listen to the constant honks of the Maruti 800 and also appears to not have checked his Right ORVM. He had also started changing his lane without using his indicator.

So, everybody is at fault?

[Rahulkool]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

I know this guy and knew the specifics of the accident quite a while before it went viral on WhatsApp. There was no role of luck here. Fiat's build quality, airbags and seatbelts saved my friend.

Thanks for the clarification mate. I also know the guy involved in accident and when i first saw the car pic i was really worried but not only he survived crash but walked out of this with very minor injuries. I just couldn't believe it, IMO he was also lucky as you can see the passenger side of the car has taken maximum damages of the impact.

[themonster]

Originally Posted by Vysakh

So, everybody is at fault?

I cannot point fingers at anyone, but I have given my comments as per my observations on the video footage. But, as it is said quite a number of times of on the forum, defensive driving could have prevented this mishap.

[Axe77]

On a very general note, I have often noticed that even disciplined drivers who are in the right sometimes firmly hold their line or not yield against aggressive wrong drivers trying to cut in or similar situations.

The unfortunate reality is that you need to drive defensively even if it is not fair to you very often. At the end of the day, if there is a contact, whether it's a light scrape or bad crash, even the driver in the right is going to suffer. Who is wrong or right becomes irrelevant.

The other related point is you have to be very very aware to predict the unfathomable. People are stupid enough to squarely beat a red light and stare aggressively at you even if you are passing through a green. That's what we're dealing with in this country.

Assume the worst / most ridiculous and manage your movement accordingly I feel.

[SVNY]

Originally Posted by themonster

I am not sure whether the Creta driver had road rage or whether he was in a hurry (emergency), but it looks like he had shown the attitude of "Bigger vehicle". (Considering that he zoomed past them from the circle/roundabout/crossroad)

In my opinion i think the Creta was slowly merging into the right lane and it didn't swerve into the right lane rapidly. From the looks of it the Maruti driver had a very clear view that the Creta was moving towards the right so he should have braked much before and should have not gone ahead with the overtaking as there was no response from Creta to the honks. Moreover looks like the Maruti driver panicked not sure if the Creta actually touched the Maruti or not

[chevyman]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Some braking might have helped, but honestly in this case I think the outcome was excellent.

Braking could have also made things worse by leading to skidding (especially considering it would be panic braking by one or both parties AND the road was wet). Note that the centrifugal force of the turn was also pushing the oncoming car further into Balenoed_'s lane. Skidding (due to hard braking) could have increased the chances of a head-on collision.

Even a small head-on collision could have been disastrous, given that the other car was an Omni!

We can have myriad of opinions in the hindsight but what we do in the heat of the moment matters the most, and I agree Baleno_ did the best he could in his situation.

Let me share my experience.

I have driven over 2.5 lakh KMs on Indian highways, almost all of that in my Optra Magnum, by God's grace never had any bad incident, except once in April 2014 when I was cruising along merrily on the Hyd-B'lore highway, around 3 PM, my parents fast asleep in the car. Suddenly an Innova from the opposite road took a u-turn and entered my road hastily, instead of making a sharp u-turn he took an almost 90 degree turn in a bid to move to the left lane of my road; as a habit I always drive slightly right off the centre line. I panicked for a moment but then decided to brake hard as my intuition said the car would stop safely before intercepting the Innova. By God's grace my car stopped safely, but my parents woke up and as I furiously tried to get off the car my parents stopped me and asked me to keep going. There were two guys in the Innova and there was "sorry" written all over their faces and looked like the driver was a learner.

An year ago, in April 2013, in a similar situation my father resorted to panic swerving to the left resulting in the car (Maruti 800) falling off the highway killing his co-passenger on the spot. Even today when I ask my father why he didn't resort to panic braking instead of panic swerving, he says he doesn't know and just did that as a knee jerk reaction.

Here are some points of contention:

1. I believe panic braking is safer than panic swerving (or atleast brake first and then swerve safely) when faced with an unexpected vehicle in your path. I believe if we brake, the other vehicle will have more of a chance to take corrective measures. A moving vehicle may further confuse and panic the driver ahead.

2. If we brake hard, I believe the other vehicle too will brake and the chance of head on collision is minimised and even if the vehicles do collide the damage will be lesser than that of colliding in motion.

3. I have observed that overwhelmingly high number of people resort to panic swerving because subconsciously they are not confident about their brakes (fear of skidding, not stopping in time etc). Recently there was a video on this thread of a Swift swerving to the left and crashing on the Delhi-Sonepat highway in a bid to evade a bike crossing the road. And there are many more such cases.

Would like to know opinion of fellow BHPians.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by chevyman

Here are some points of contention:

1. I believe panic braking is safer than panic swerving (or atleast brake first and then swerve safely) ... if we brake, the other vehicle will have more of a chance to take corrective measures. A moving vehicle may further confuse and panic the driver ahead.

2. If we brake hard, I believe the other vehicle too will brake and the chance of head on collision is minimised and even if the vehicles do collide the damage will be lesser than that of colliding in motion.

Would like to know opinion of fellow BHPians.

Agree whole heartedly with your assessment. To this I will add - keep our ego and pride at home when driving. At my age I still find it hard to swallow my ego at times and I can well imagine who difficult it is for a younger person with different hormones. Also when you have, say, 0.4 seconds to observe-think-react in it is better to do one thing (brake - get the kinetic energy out). The ultimate protector is to drive at moderate speeds. At 60 kmph we travel at ~17 metres/second. An incident that pops up 8 metres ahead leaves the driver with half a second to go from observe to act. The grief of the parents of these 3 youngsters is hard to imagine. How often will they look at that FB video and wonder 'what if'.

[Torqy]

Originally Posted by Divya Sharan

Also, IMHO; while Fiats are well built and heavy, such accidents cannot determine the safety of any car, be it a Punto or an S class because the forces involved at high speeds, angle of impact etc are big unknown variables to determine if the occupant comes out alive or not. This bloke was simply lucky!

People who are out on the roads to test Fiat's (or any other make's) build quality and safety features always forget an important aspect. "The Others' on the road. While a car might be safe for it's occupants, somebody driving the safest car can ram it into a Maruti Alto being driven by his friend's father and instantly kill him....or a bunch of school kids waiting at the bus stop.

[Rahulkool]

Originally Posted by Torqy

People who are out on the roads to test Fiat's (or any other make's) build quality and safety features always forget an important aspect. "The Others' on the road. While a car might be safe for it's occupants, an idiot driving the safest car can ram it into a Maruti Alto being driven by his friend's father and instantly kill him....or a bunch of school kids waiting at the bus stop. But, why should we think of others when we have ABS, airbags etc?

No offence, but accident can happen to anyone, no matter how safe or defensive driver you are, specially on Indian roads. There is no need to call someone idiot for that

[Torqy]

Originally Posted by Rahulkool

No offence, but accident can happen to anyone, no matter how safe or defensive driver you are, specially on Indian roads. There is no need to call someone idiot for that

Exactly, but there are people who swear by the safety features in their car and that's all that matters to them. "The Others" don't matter. Just like you mentioned, in my post, that Maruti Alto driver who got killed could've been the defensive driver. :(