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Old 9th October 2020, 15:51   #31726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy
If you facing up-hill, park in reverse gear, and in the case facing down-hill, park in forward gear.
Shouldn't it be the opposite ? That is, in forward gear when facing uphill and in reverse gear when facing downhill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalin1
This is why it is so important to have the mandatory mechanism of starting the car only with the clutch pressed.
While my cars don't have this feature, from the time I saw it years ago on a friend's Getz, I just made it a habit to depress the clutch before starting any car, irrespective of which gear it might be in. A good feature to have.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 9th October 2020 at 15:55.
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Old 9th October 2020, 16:23   #31727
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Me too. But I just cannot turn the key without waggling the gear lever (checking in neutral). Even when I have my foot on the clutch! Which I always do when starting normally.

It's something I really am manic about.

If I park the car in gear, I'll choose the gear opposite to the direction I really don't want the car to go if I make the mistake. But also, Reverse is a lower gear ratio than any forward gear, so, technically, the best to choose for holding the car.

I do the exact same thing, even in my modern cars. Old habits are always the best.

I always waggle the gear leaver to check if it is neutral when I have to use the DC 12v socket for car vaccum cleaner and tyre air inflator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Shouldn't it be the opposite ? That is, in forward gear when facing uphill and in reverse gear when facing downhill.
You're right. If it is on an incline, put the gear in opposite direction of the car. I remember reading post on this forum, There was an accident involving a parked scorpio in first gear, and a rat chewed up the ignition wires, making them fuse and the car started and rolled forward on its own and hit other vehicles in front of their cars.

Quote:
While my cars don't have this feature, from the time I saw it years ago on a friend's Getz, I just made it a habit to depress the clutch before starting any car, irrespective of which gear it might be in. A good feature to have.

Depressing the clutch while starting the car will save battery life too. The starter spins only Engine crankshaft, here the gearbox is not engaged and takes less power to start the engine meaning less load on battery and starter motor.


The above is from my experience, but I've also googled if this is correct or not, I found two different statements on this theory.

Statement 1:

Quote:
Starting the engine in Neutral (manual gearbox) without depressing the clutch means the starter will have to get the engine parts moving, but also the main (input) shaft on the gearbox. Cold temperatures affect not only the oil in the engine, but also the lubricant inside the gear box. Thus the starter motor will have to contend with the slightly thicker oil within the gearbox at lower temperatures.

As you drive, the gearbox oil heats up progressively due to friction between moving parts and also the oil itself getting into motion. As it heats up, it also thins out, giving better lubrication and making it easier for the driver to change gears (the gears enter better). Transmission oil also has the double viscosity grading system, such as "EP 75W/90": 75 when cold, 90 when warmed up.

When both the engine and the gearbox oils are at working temperature, the engine may be started in Neutral without depressing the clutch.

Statement 2:

Quote:
When I learnt to drive in the 1960s, British engines were not as powerful and batteries were nowhere near as good. I was taught to start in neutral with the clutch out and later, as a driving instructor, I passed this on. I don't know about now, but back then, depressing the clutch put MORE strain on the motor. This was easily established by listening to the motor, or watching the tachometer. If I had the car idling in neutral, and I depressed the clutch, the engine revs would go DOWN. Of course, living in coastal suburban Australia, I did not have to deal with the kind of cold temperatures that would be experienced in the USA or Europe.

Quote:
There are two sides to this topic: 1) As you depress the clutch the input shaft is disconnected from the crank -> Less strain on the starter and the battery/electrical system.

This is all nice and dandy, HOWEVER: 2) By pressing down the clutch pedal you put an axial load on the crankshaft. This will lead to increased wear on the thrust bearing (The one crank bearing that also limits/sets the axial play of the crankshaft) as there is no or not enough oil pressure yet.

Personally, I use the clutch out neutral start. However, I never drive my cars for such short times where an increased strain on the battery can't be recharged. If the starter should at some point fail from the added stress, it is easier and cheaper to replace.

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...ng-winte/25660

Last edited by WhiteSierra : 9th October 2020 at 16:25. Reason: formatting
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Old 9th October 2020, 16:43   #31728
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RIP to the departed soul.
I dread this. I experienced this first hand on our family's first car - dad's company provided M800. I had just learnt driving and I used to drive my dad upto the main road. One day dad was late for office and asked me to quickly get the car out. In the hurry, I jumped in and twisted the key, not knowing 1st gear was engaged. The car surged ahead, just stopped before hitting the compound wall. Was saved by God's grace that time. That was in 1999.
Now in my own car since 2012, everytime I get in it's always check for neutral, seatbelt, clutch, crank.
This incident also reminded me of when just an year after I bought my car, in 2013, I had to go abroad on a business trip for one month. My wife, who has a valid driving licence but does not drive was entrusted with the task of starting the car once in a week. Before leaving I handed her a quick check list to be followed. She followed it diligently and thankfully nothing untoward happened.
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Old 9th October 2020, 16:52   #31729
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Slightly

I am curious to understand based on the Bangalore Incident being discussed which are the car manufacturers who have brought in the feature of mandatory clutch press?

From the articles above it looks like Hyundai has it across their range now. Any idea when they introduced this?

My relative has a Ciaz Manual and he confirmed that his 2017 Ciaz does not start without a clutch press. Do all Maruti Manual cars follow this standard now?

On the Honda side, I understand they have made it mandatory to press the clutch for all cars that come with Button Start from the 2017 facelift onwards but the Ignition Key ones still jump.

What about the other brands like Toyota, Ford etc?
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Old 9th October 2020, 18:17   #31730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post
Slightly

I am curious to understand based on the Bangalore Incident being discussed which are the car manufacturers who have brought in the feature of mandatory clutch press?

From the articles above it looks like Hyundai has it across their range now. Any idea when they introduced this?

IIRC, it started with Hyundai Accent, Hyundai Verna (1st generation) and Hyundai Getz. I don't remember if it came with 1st generation Santro or 1st generation Sonata. (oval shaped headlight, the Mercedes E-class rip off model)
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Old 9th October 2020, 18:39   #31731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSierra View Post
IIRC, it started with Hyundai Accent, Hyundai Verna (1st generation) and Hyundai Getz. I don't remember if it came with 1st generation Santro or 1st generation Sonata. (oval shaped headlight, the Mercedes E-class rip off model)
I have owned a Accent CRDi 2004 model in the past and the car used to jump in gear - there was no mandatory clutch required. Maybe you are referring to the Accent Executive which Hyundai was selling in parallel to the Verna. So if the 1st Gen Verna had it then Hyundai seems to have adopted it from 2007 or so itself.
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Old 9th October 2020, 20:02   #31732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSierra View Post
I remember reading post on this forum, There was an accident involving a parked scorpio in first gear, and a rat chewed up the ignition wires, making them fuse and the car started and rolled forward on its own and hit other vehicles in front of their cars.
https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...ng-winte/25660
It was a Suzuki swift, not a Scorpio
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Old 9th October 2020, 21:55   #31733
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Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post
Maybe you are referring to the Accent Executive which Hyundai was selling in parallel to the Verna.
I have a 2009 Accent Executive and it does not have this feature. It starts without depressing the clutch.
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Old 9th October 2020, 22:09   #31734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post
So if the 1st Gen Verna had it then Hyundai seems to have adopted it from 2007 or so itself.
My 2011 i20 magna petrol didn't have it so I think it might be specific to models.
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Old 9th October 2020, 23:14   #31735
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Originally Posted by WhiteSierra View Post
Hyderabad: Engineering student dies after hair gets tangled in go-kart
......in a complaint to Hyderabad police, have alleged negligence on the part of organizers of the go-kart zone in Gurram Guda under the limits of Meerpet police station in Hyderabad.

Hope she rests in peace.

As for the allegations, I don't really think it will go anywhere.
I've been to these go-karting places and it's mandatory to sign an indemnity form that frees the organisers of any liability in case of a mishap.

Another lesson for all of us to focus safely on the experience instead of jumping at an opportunity to take pictures and share, it can all wait.
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Old 10th October 2020, 00:43   #31736
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Originally Posted by beingyukeit View Post

This is what is wrong with the world. Next time you think of hitting a dog on the road to save a human, see this attachment.

In panic situations, I assume most of us would try to save the life which is in direct line of danger with our car. It's just an impulse.

I wish the government and people involved paid attention not only to human accidents and deaths on road, animals too.
I had seen this cartoon when I was younger and it made me extremely sad and mushy.

A while ago, I was on the activa doing 40kmph on a road with 4 lanes, 2 up and 2 down.
But it was a busy place and as i accelerated after a speed breaker a dog crossed my path, and I instinctively braked. I could not stop in time and ended up hitting the dog. The dog toppled and then it got up and ran away. My friend who has several dogs since two decades told me that if the dog could run away as fast as it did, maybe it wasn't that badly hurt.

But that didn't stop me from feeling extremely guilty. The only thing I told myself was that if I had swerved, the bike next to me with a couple and their little kid, could have been hurt , the kid, maybe fatally. They were travelling without helmets, as typically seen.

Comparing lives is not fair. We cannot weigh lives. But only after several instances and scenarios do driving schools and people certified to train others impart certain knowledge. Similar to V.Narayan and Thad E Ginathom my father taught me not to swerve and brake, skidding and falling is fatal. just brake in a straight line, IF YOU CAN AND IT IS SAFE. He was in the armed forces and has driven on duty in several extreme conditions, it saddens me that I hurt an animal, but I take peace in knowing that it could have been worse and I helped prevent it.
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Old 10th October 2020, 09:25   #31737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post

If I remember correctly, the Honda Jazz & Amaze will not start unless you press the clutch pedal. Why not the City?
I own a 3rd generation MT Jazz. This feature is not in Jazz.

I faced a similar situation couple of years back,I had to park my car on blazing sun on a visit to a friend's place. The road was bit a downwards slope, So I engaged 1st gear also as added safety to handbrake. When I came back it was very hot I couldn't even touch the steering, So I thought of running AC for couple of minutes before getting into. I completely forgot the first gear(as it is not a usual habit), when I turned on ignition, Due to the inclination of road, and the RPM will be higher for first couple of minutes the car started moving forwards in jerky motion. I froze in shock for couple of seconds, Ran with the car and removed the ignition key to stop car.
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Old 10th October 2020, 10:05   #31738
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er sorry but why is not a habit to park in gear?
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Old 10th October 2020, 10:46   #31739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktisarangi View Post
When I bought my Skoda Yeti in 2012 and realised that I have to depress the clutch every time I want to start the car, I found it annoying and unnecessary, however I then understood why it was important and today I have a very strong appreciation for these little features which can be lifesavers. My current car, a 2018 VW Tiguan, needs the brake to be depressed for starting, despite being an automatic. I believe these safety features should be made mandatory for all cars.
This one is truly a very unfortunate accident. I appreciate car manufacturers incorporating safety features that help avoid such situations without you being able to understand it. I have an automatic car and it not only requires you to press brake while starting, it also shifts to P from D or R if the driver's door is open, and seat belt is not engaged. I read somewhere that a famous person fell under tires of his own car and died while reversing with the driver's door open. Since then, this feature has been incorporated in many German cars. I feel annoyed though, that on other forums, there are people who keep discussing about disabling such safety features.
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Old 10th October 2020, 15:15   #31740
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I don't think she pressed the clutch or, tried to press the clutch. She bent down to reach the ignition switch. If she was pressing the clutch, her weight would have been on the one leg on the ground. And when the vehicle lunged backward, she would've been pushed to the ground by the door. It's not easy to press the clutch with a diagonal and oblique application of force. And, without holding onto something for stability. Let's not discuss super light clutches now!

I think the hand was still twisting on the ignition; frozen in panic. That's why the vehicle stopped after her hand stopped twisting, and the key returned to its rest position. If it was in gear and vehicle did start, the vehicle would've continued to move backwards. The resistance of the door hinges had already given away.

We are going on a tangent discussing clutch linked starting feature, and the makes and models that support this feature. Anyways, I can't watch that video again to 'analyse' it. This was an accident. One of the very freaky ones.

May she rest in peace.
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