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Old 12th March 2023, 16:38   #37501
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Originally Posted by sj_koova View Post
If you watch closely, Xylo also crossed the yellow line. So the mistake is on both sides. Yes the KSRTC was doing an offensive driving. But there was absolutely no defense from the Xylo except trying to brake.
From what i can see from the video, the xylo braked and braked hard (see rubber marks on road) well in advance but lack of abs (?) caused wheels to lock and the car's momentum did the rest and took it straight.

Seeing a KSRTC hurtling towards you in your lane can cause all of sorts of panic!
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Old 12th March 2023, 16:41   #37502
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Horrific accident from Pune, Maharashtra.
What was the doctor thinking, jogging right in the middle of dark road

https://twitter.com/sirajnoorani/sta...CgLx-R1rg&s=19
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Old 12th March 2023, 18:24   #37503
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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
Xylo was not overspeeding.
I am not arguing the speed or the speed limit, but want to add this...

There is more to "overspeeding" than simply exceeding the legal limit. The speed limit is not necessarily the safe speed. Very often it is not. It is our responsibility to drive at a safe speed for the location and conditions.

I learned this lesson the hard way.
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Old 12th March 2023, 18:44   #37504
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I am not arguing the speed or the speed limit, but want to add this...

There is more to "overspeeding" than simply exceeding the legal limit. The speed limit is not necessarily the safe speed. Very often it is not. It is our responsibility to drive at a safe speed for the location and conditions.

I learned this lesson the hard way.
This is what I am also trying to conclude.

It was mentioned that the car was overspeeding.

Looking at another car doing the same stretch, it appears that this is an acceptable speed for that road.

Hence, concluding that the car was overspeeding is incorrect. Now, both the cars can be overspeeding as we do not know the actual speed. However, as one of them made it safe, the other is not expected to get into trouble.

But, due to this bus driver, things took a drastic turn for the car driver.
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Old 12th March 2023, 18:49   #37505
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Originally Posted by ransomware View Post
Horrific accident from Pune, Maharashtra.
What was the doctor thinking, jogging right in the middle of dark road
Indeed. Its suicidal to run, right in the middle of the road. The footpath seems to be desolated.
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Old 12th March 2023, 19:16   #37506
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Theres a Speed breaker right before church and i see the ksrtc driver overtaking the white car right on speed breaker.
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Old 12th March 2023, 19:50   #37507
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Originally Posted by tiagoatrix View Post
Bus drivers driving license should be canceled, at least that would make other arrogant bus drivers a bit more cautious on road.
Lack of enforcement has reached levels of criminal negligence. Bus drivers in Kerala, either KSRTC or private, need to feel the sting of law if they drive with no respect for life.

MVD and highway police in Kerala are the most friendly and least corrupted enforcement I have seen in India. But they need to focus more on buses and tipper trucks, which is another menace on Kerala roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetee View Post
XYLO was driven much faster than the bus and hence Xylo driver didn't have enough reaction time to slow or turn away.

Xylo hit the bus with much larger momentum which pushed the bus off its track.

So, the larger part of the blame lies with XYLO driver who was driving much faster and failed to adjust his direction away from collision.
Don't you think it's unfair to deduce so much from that video? 'Probably' the Xylo was over speeding, but for me, it didn't appear he was faster than the bus or even over speeding. Of course, he was driving fast and less defensively. But, say if a car is on a highway within the speed limits and vehicle lands in front, jumping the median, we cannot put the blame on the car driver saying he should have driven slower.

Bus had already swerved towards the wall before the Xylo hit but changed its direction by a few degrees on the collision. Its hard to say whether the bus would have avoided running into the wall otherwise. Also, a Xylo can never have a 'higher momentum' at those relative speeds, albeit it doesn't matter in this case.

There's limit to human judgement and several factors affecting it dynamically. Accidents do happen but needn't amount to negligence. So, I would refrain from saying it's the fault of the Xylo driver unless I have some good data.

Last edited by impala : 12th March 2023 at 20:13.
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Old 12th March 2023, 20:55   #37508
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An image that would help us infer a little more for the accident.

Even if the car swerved, there was only a little chance of avoiding impact as the rear of the bus was still blocking the road and a xylo cannot pass through; this even when the bus swerved quite a lot against the imagination of the Xylo driver.

Hence, to conclude, the bus was the only one to blame.

Xylo started braking the moment it entered the frame (see the tyre marks). Hence, Xylo did the best it can in this situation, but the brakes/tyres were not as effective as were needed.
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Old 12th March 2023, 21:16   #37509
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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
Hence, to conclude, the bus was the only one to blame.

Xylo started braking the moment it entered the frame (see the tyre marks). Hence, Xylo did the best it can in this situation, but the brakes/tyres were not as effective as were needed.
Judging by the length of the building and position of the cars parked next to it, XYLO covered a distance of approx 55-60m under 2 secs even after braking hard and skidding along. That translates to approx 100kph.
Imagine the speed it would have been driven before braking. Where as the bus driver started braking early (he spotted XYLO even before it entered the frame of camera) and has covered approx half the distance within the same span of under 2 secs.

Brakes were not effective, understeer happened, driver froze - all these are lame excuses after driving beyond the capabilities of the vehicle and driver.

The bus did err + Xylo also erred = Accident .
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Old 12th March 2023, 21:41   #37510
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Originally Posted by deetee View Post
Judging by the length of the building and position of the cars parked next to it, XYLO covered a distance of approx 55-60m under 2 secs even after braking hard and skidding along. That translates to approx 100kph.
Imagine the speed it would have been driven before braking. Where as the bus driver started braking early (he spotted XYLO even before it entered the frame of camera) and has covered approx half the distance within the same span of under 2 secs.

Brakes were not effective, understeer happened, driver froze - all these are lame excuses after driving beyond the capabilities of the vehicle and driver.

The bus did err + Xylo also erred = Accident .
How was the 55-60m distance deduction made ?
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Old 12th March 2023, 22:01   #37511
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Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
How was the 55-60m distance deduction made ?
It's an approx calculation. Actual number may be 40-45 I think,looking at it again.
White i10 is parked at the far end of the shops building. It is 3.8 m in length. There is about 4 cars length space behind it till end of the building. That is about 20meters length. This building ends opposite to the Church Arch. The camera angle cuts of portion of the space adjacent to the building but looking at the remaining portion of the church wall til where the frame ends it is atleast another 25meters to the point where XYLO enters the frame skidding the brakes. Hence the figure of 45 meters.
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Old 12th March 2023, 22:49   #37512
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Originally Posted by deetee View Post
Brakes were not effective, understeer happened, driver froze - all these are lame excuses after driving beyond the capabilities of the vehicle and driver.

The bus did err + Xylo also erred = Accident .
Unfortunately, I don't analyse accidents like you do.

There is usually one causative factor and there are other factors which may have prevented an accident.

For example, in this above case, the white car was too slow for a highway. It may or may not be using indicators. Because of this car, the bus had to move towards the median. Should we blame this car for the accident? No, as this is expected on a highway.

Some vehicles will move fast, some slow. It was the responsibility of the bus driver to remain planted in its lane and overtake the vehicle at a suitable opportunity.

A fast car at around 100 km/h is not unexpected on such a highway, I would say even a random 120 is business as usual. But a bus covering 60% of your lane is not expected. Bus driver not expecting an odd 120 km/hr vehicle is another fault of the bus driver. He left the space for just a motorcycle to pass.

It was the responsibility of the bus to maintain its lane. Blaming the car for not being able to avoid an accident is justified, for that, the brakes, the tyres, and non abs vehicle are some of the reasons, but the accident was 'caused' by the bus.

Someone got malaria from the bite of an aedes mosquito. What is the causative factor and what is a preventive factor?

You can blame improper clothing of the child which exposed body parts to the mosquito. But, I will blame the mosquito.

The same is with terror strikes etc. There is one terrorist who caused the bomb blast. Police not keeping proper vigil is part of sub standard prevention measures.

Last edited by MT_Hyderabad : 12th March 2023 at 22:57.
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Old 12th March 2023, 23:01   #37513
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A very interesting discussion.
Just curious to know if the tyres of xylo had adequate grip. Personally I have seen too many cases where the driver / owner tries to use the tyre till it is fully worn out, potentially endangering others.
The bus driver is at fault for having crossed the double yellow line; being a driver of a public carrier, no excuses for him. But perhaps the xylo driver could have driven more defensively and this was one preventable accident.
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Old 12th March 2023, 23:04   #37514
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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post

You can blame improper clothing of the child which exposed body parts to the mosquito. But, I will blame the mosquito.
.
If you are living in a land of mosquitoes and malaria, you should either get rid of the mosquitoes or take as much preventive care. The later is easier and you are to blame if you caught malaria.

If KSRTC driver is mosquito, this Xylo driver went half naked and caught the malaria .
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Old 13th March 2023, 08:41   #37515
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Imagine the Xylo either braked on time or sweved. There would be no accident, and it'd be just another normal day at work for the ksrtc.

The Xylo would sit there at the roadside as a loser. Everyone moves on and there'd be no forum posts. This is what the ksrtc hopes for. They like to think that their judgment is perfect to the inch, and would argue that this collision is solely the Xylo's fault for not matching up to that genius.

Sure, Xylo maybe an unsafe car and this one may have had bad tires, but tomorrow it'll be a Nexon or whatever.
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