[xcentrk]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Don't be sorry, think again.

Ideally what you mentioned is the best solution, but I feel in our country it is not that straight forward to do such thing right now. As a first step, what we can do is to do medical test every 2-3 year once the license holder's age is 70 (Only at authorized hospitals with no corruption). It may sound like a lot for both the government and for the license holder but this I feel will be for greater good. At least considering how may lives lost or damaged in that recent accident.

[Jupizire]

Originally Posted by jigar1791@gmail

Sheer irresponsible driving mannerism exhibited by the Carens driver (if his signal was really RED). God knows when can we see atleast 1 single day where we do not come across blatant refusals in accepting the law while on the road

Many times I see 2 wheelers jump the red signal, but then they would be going at slow pace after crossing the signal. If one really jumps a red signal, then at least do justice to it by going fast. Else, what's the use of disobeying traffic rules?
I am not at all supporting/justifying breaking the rules, but it's very irritating to see someone jump a signal and then go slow as if there is no urgency.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Jupizire

If one really jumps a red signal, then at least do justice to it by going fast. Else, what's the use of disobeying traffic rules?

It's never acceptable to jump that red signal!

But there are other examples where what you say is very true. If you are going to pull out in front of somebody, at least accelerate and try not to make them slow down. If you overtake somebody, do not slow down in front of them. I recall being told off for doing the latter by one of my driving instructors.

Essentially, it boils down to driving/riding with some consideration. Sure, I know: that is too much to expect from many!

[Gennex]

https://www.eenadu.net/videos/playVi...erabad/1/54071


As you can see , patience for few seconds could have prevented the accident. Silver lining, No casualties, all of them survived.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by Sphere

I feel its a high time and there needs to be an upper limit for a license holder. I feel 65-70 is an ideal age to stop driving.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Please declare your age when making such comments. It is essential to know your point of view, and how skewed it is.

Thad - you are 70+, Sphere is 20-21 and the future of Indian road user. Obviously he may be biased towards uncles like you and I on the road.

Sphere, by the end of this 18th Govt of India, 18-20 yrs will call you uncle too

(PS - Big fan of Thad here!, do not get me wrong here, just some friendly banter here)

[ashkamath]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Actually, this is sensible: medical certification above a certain age. This does exist, but you know as well as I do the situation here: I did not even see the doctor who did mine for me, it was done through an auto-driver friend. I do agree that that is wrong

I agree with you, Thad. Govt fixing an upper age limit for drivers infringe upon some basic rights the constitution of India bestows upon its citizens.

under Article 19(1)(d) and (e) of the Indian Constitution to move freely across India's territory and to reside and settle in any part of it.

According to Article 21: “Protection of Life and Personal Liberty: No person shall be deprived of his life or personal liberty except according to procedure established by law.” This fundamental right is available to every person, citizens and foreigners alike.

Article 19 is in a different context, but anyways protection of personal liberty is guaranteed in our constitution and to be able to drive is an expression of this liberty.

Regarding medical certificate, It's same story in Goa. I turned 60, a few months ago and hence renewed my DL and I had to undergo a medical test that covered eye test, general health, mental health etc..Ofcourse if you go through an agent, you get to skip it as the agent will manage it.

Ashkamath, 60.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by Sphere

I feel it’s a high time and there needs to be an upper limit for a license holder. I feel 65-70 is an ideal age to stop driving.

Blanket bans don’t make sense considering everyone ages differently. Having senior citizens above a certain age pass a fitness/driving exam every 2 years to keep their license would be better.

[Sphere]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Please declare your age when making such comments. It is essential to know your point of view, and how skewed it is.

It is a ridiculous idea, or, at least, a ridiculous age limit to choose.

Actually, this is sensible: medical certification above a certain age. This does exist, but you know as well as I do the situation here: I did not even see the doctor who did mine for me, it was done through an auto-driver friend. I do agree that that is wrong.

You know I read your post while leaving office and during my drive home, I was thinking about how will I reply to your post with a long paragraph on 'how this is a public forum and I put out my point of view, how there is a better way to call my opinions skewed etc etc.'

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Thad - you are 70+, Sphere is 20-21 and the future of Indian road user. Obviously he may be biased towards uncles like you and I on the road.

Sphere, by the end of this 18th Govt of India, 18-20 yrs will call you uncle too

(PS - Big fan of Thad here!, do not get me wrong here, just some friendly banter here)

But then I reached home and read this post, and laughed out loud. I see you took my words to heart uncle.

Mind me but I still feel that driving after 70 or maximum 75 is a risk to your own lives and others on the road, and it needs to be stopped. You proved my point in your own post about how the Indian laws are so easy to find loopholes or bribe your way into.

I feel RTO's are the biggest scamsters. In Pune (and most of India), 18 year old's can get a permanent license by paying 10k through agents standing inside the RTO premises. I paid 11k as my driving school fees. Gave the test (completely controlled by the driving instructor, I just had to control the steering), and got my license lawfully.

You will find minors riding bikes and driving high end cars, giving 200-250 bribes to cops and just escaping. They cause accidents too (Pune Porsche accident) and they need to be stopped too. I am also guilty of riding a bike for short distances underage with the mentality that 'India me sab chalta hai, 200-300 deke choot jayenge).

As you mentioned, you yourself never even saw the doctor who gave you the green flag to drive, imagine how many other people must be using such tactics to get behind the wheel, and how many such cases will we get to hear, where an elderly man caused an accident or death.

@svsantosh - Yes I sometimes do feel angry and irritated against elderly drivers, sometimes its just the frustration towards their riding/driving (Creta incident) or their behavior on the road. I was chased for 4 kms, stopped in the middle of the road and abused by a guy in his late 50s because I just told him "Aur Ghus Jaa" when he cut me. He was on the wrong side and still abused me.
But trust me I won't be called uncle at least till the 20th government forms.

Sphere, 19

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by Sphere

Gave the test (completely controlled by the driving instructor, I just had to control the steering), and got my license lawfully.

That was lawful? And that idiotic test not only equips you to drive, but also determine the age at which folks should stop driving.

Originally Posted by Sphere

But trust me I won't be called uncle at least till the 20th government forms.

Hmm. You will be proven wrong here too. Been there, seen it.

Originally Posted by Sphere

I feel 65-70 is an ideal age to stop driving. It is a harsh statement but old people are a danger on the road, either they drive extremely slow and many times can't handle their scooters, or they might cause an accident in a situation like the one mentioned above.

You mention “driving” then talk about scooters, which is “riding”. Which of it is your concern ?

I don’t think 65-70yo qualifies as “old”, but yes old people (75+) are slow, be it on a scooter or on the pedestrian crossing. That’s why sensible folks slow down for them. Maybe the problem is with you.

Btw, please do post a few dashcam videos of your & your Dad’s driving.

[neon115]

Originally Posted by GeneralJazz

Also, no self respecting Cruise Control is going to work in this absolutely chaotic sad excuse of a junction.

I think you are getting confusing AEB with something different.
This is: AEB.

It detects presence of an obstacle and applies brakes automatically. It even works at slow speeds in bumper to bumper traffic situations.

[Quaser]

Only way to stop malpractices for driving tests & issue of licenses is to make them in such a way that they are fully computer monitored & without any manual intervention, with retrievable records.

Automated traffic signal monitoring & fines has reduced corruption & similarly, automated driving tests will also reduce corruption.

[sarathlal]

As many others had already opined in this thread, Driving License is not an entitlement, rather a responsibility earned after proving your worthiness of driving in public road.

Just because the infrastructure is poor or system is corrupt, it's incorrect to shift blame based on gender or age.

The accident video that triggered this conversation is an apt example. That particular accident is one of the real 'accident' in this thread, whereas a majority of the other videos are much closer to 'murder attempts' than accident.

People (again irrespective of age or gender) driving vehicles on our roads, who have no idea of what driving is, is the actual problem for all the mishaps that happen on road.

Somehow you manage to overtake a slow moving vehicle riding on the right most lane on the highway, you can see the driver chilling away on phone, with his headlights on high beam.

Unfortunately, the general public will think that such a person is safe (because he is driving slow), whereas the chaos such a person create will be blamed on someone else.

It is these entitled ones that need to be removed from our roads, and not the other way round.

[ashkamath]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Essentially, it boils down to driving/riding with some consideration. Sure, I know: that is too much to expect from many!

Thad, when you mentioned 'some consideration', I remember an incident. This was many years ago. We have a biker's group in Goa and we go on week end rides, practice riding techniques, chill out and talk bike stuff etc. I started a whatsapp group for our biker's group, so that we can interact and share our thoughts. It was a great group and our discussion always revolved around bikes and there was always something to share. There was mutual respect and decency in the group and all was good.

I had made other members as admin of the whatsapp group and they would induct newbies into the group. One day, I noticed that a newbie had posted some images of a very gory accident in the group. The images were of a biker whose head had severed and body crushed and it was extremely distressing to see those images.

I replied in the group that the members should abstain from posting gory images of dead riders and if his actions are indicative of his respect (or disrespect fot that matter) for other people’s privacy and personal space – whether they’re still breathing or not? Or is he uploading the photos mainly for shock value?” I also asked him "Haven’t you asked yourself why newspapers and media outlets usually don’t show the bodies and faces of the deceased, and instead blur out the most violent parts?".

These honest queries immediately was retaliated with a barrage of abusive and vulgar by the member. He laughed it off, made more sly comments that I don't have the courage to see such images, I am a chicken and stuff like that. Infact he also called out my parents and family members.

I just called the friend who had inducted this newbie to the group and asked him about this boy. He said "He is a rich kid who rides a super bike and I shouldn't bother much about it and present age kids are hyper and brash and that's how it is". I left the group and that's the last I heard of the group and I kept my distance from them.

Interestingly, the person from the biker group who advised me to stay cool and payed it down is also a long standing member of Team-Bhp. It will be interesting to hear his reply, if he reads this comment.

Some consideration from youngsters in their langauge and attitude towards elders is always a nice thing to expect. Some day they will be old too and will be at the receiving end of the stick. Or considering the attitude, some may never reach that age.

I also remember a discussion I had with a friend about riding / driving safely and follow road rules. He rode fast, took some risks and had that " I reached first" " I am a better rider than you" complex.

While having a cup of coffee in a group meet,
I asked him "Man, please ride carefully, don't take unnecessary risks"

He: "I am good, I know how to handle speed"
Me: "How many people in your family have died in a road accident"
He: Annoyed that I asked him a sensitive question replied " None, why?"
Me: "Well, I have lost a younger brother, a younger sister and a young maternal uncle to road accident. I have seen their mangled bodies in front of my eyes" Do you know how painful it is to see your brother and sister dead?

Unless you have an accident and a dead body in your house, you may never know". So learn from my experience. You don't commit that mistake and get to know first hand. Shove down your brashness and overconfidence and have some humility and drive carefully. There are lot of idiots driving on the road and you may not be lucky every day.

I am sure he got his lessons that day. Probably sobered a bit in his riding. May be. May be not.
(This is a true incident and I have indeed lost many family members in road accidents)

Thad, we both are senior citizens, we have been driving for 4 decades or more. That we are in one piece and still driving is a testimony that we must be doing something right (and also a bit lucky considering the number of lunatics on road). Drive safe and as long as your body and mind are sound, keep driving and hope no Govt regulations will thwart your spirit of being free and ability to drive. Take care

[Jeroen]

There is a lot of data about age versus (fatal) accidents.

An interesting sniiper from US data:

Based on the data, millennials are the worst drivers in America. People between the ages of 25 and 34* (as of 2021) accounted for the most car accidents, most fatal car accidents, and the second highest percentage of distracted drivers.

The next age group for the worst drivers in America bridges the gap between Millennials and Gen Xers. People between the ages of 35-44* rank second in our study of the worst drivers by age group and this group is attributed with the second most alcohol-related speeding crashes.

Source: https://www.fltlaw.com/worst-drivers...er%20100%2C000.

So if we want to make an impact on the (fatal) number of accidents we had best ban all 25-44 year old drivers!

Older drivers are not inherently less safe on the road than younger driver. However, very often their injuries are a whole lot worse. As we get older our bodies become more frail, our bones become brittle. Relative small impact accidents can have a pretty devastating effect on an old body.

In many countries there is a mandatory health check when you pass a certain age. Here in the Netherlands it is every five years after 75 for a regular driving license. For a HV license you need a medical check every five years, irrespective of your age and you need to pass a medical prior to taking your HV driving test.

There are also certain medical conditions that might prompt an actual annual Driving test. E.g. For people suffering from MCI, dementia, Parkinsson etc.

Jeroen

[Sphere]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

That was lawful? And that idiotic test not only equips you to drive, but also determine the age at which folks should stop driving.

You mention “driving” then talk about scooters, which is “riding”. Which of it is your concern ?

I don’t think 65-70yo qualifies as “old”, but yes old people (75+) are slow, be it on a scooter or on the pedestrian crossing. That’s why sensible folks slow down for them. Maybe the problem is with you.

Btw, please do post a few dashcam videos of your & your Dad’s driving.

You tell me, is there any other way of getting a license, other than applying on your own through the RTO website and paying an agent?

I wanted to learn how to drive responsibly and safely, thus I chose a driving school, and they did the RTO formalities for me. I went for the test and told him (driving instructor) to let me drive during the test, he didn't budge. His words were "Itna time nahi hai, aur bhi log hai line me."

And at least I did not pay an agent to get a license without even seeing the RTO once, and spent more on learning from a professional. That seems lawful enough to me.

Driving and riding both of them are my concern, driving is a risk to others and riding is a risk to themselves. My point is licenses should be suspended after a certain age, (everyone ages differently, they need independence, medical checks every 2 years - all understood, but these don't work in India because everything can be bought).

Okay, I agree 65-70 might be be 'old'. I slow down for elderly too, be it on a crossing, if they are on a scooter or a car and I am very respectful to them, so its definitely not 'MY' Problem.

Both our cars don't have dashcams installed, but if they had I would have no problem to share the videos here.