[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Lol. Neither am I.

I took this thread OT to discuss the quoted statement below, that did not make much sense to me:
"But the question was for those people who think motorcycling is unsafe only because of the vulnerability of the vehicle. No. It's not just that."

Thanks for the explanation, I understand your viewpoint now. I agree that a rider is far more susceptible to accidents in a bike rather than a car, and making a choice of picking up a bike or a car for a longish drive I will always choose my car. If a rider feels that by having all the gear on, he/she can be as safe as in a car, its a mistake, that's why I advocate defensive riding and riding to enjoy the bike and the scenery and not riding for records as that lady was supposedly doing. Pushing for records on open roads, with all the associated risks, is increasing one's chances for accidents and sometimes a fatality.
One must also not try for records or stunts in a car as well, if its done in controlled conditions with backup vehicles, ambulances, fire tenders etc, it makes sense, not otherwise. I especially hate that nonsensical farce called iron butt where in a rider rides for 1000kms within 24 hours on public roads. On a related note: Insurance companies have the standard disclaimer about not honoring insurance if the vehicle is used for racing or public demonstration. If they find out about the riding for records idea, they would be right in rejecting insurance in case of a crash.

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by hemant.kamat

4 Goans including Mr & Mrs Dhananjay Narvekar from Amona Bicholim, Santosh Naik from Panaji, Ertiga vehicle owner Girish killed at Sankeshwar on Belgavi - Pune NH on early Saturday

Where is the "body structure made of higher tensile steel and carefully positioned reinforcements" that Maruti advertises? It's high time that Maruti was made liable for false & misleading advertising.

Originally Posted by Acharya

To be fair to Maruti, they may actually be doing what they are advertising.
Maruti never claims that if you hit a 5-10 ton monster head on, Ertiga will be able to save you.
As a matter of fact, accidents in India are so unpredictable that one cannot rely on safety features of our modern cars.
Moreover, judging a car's strength on how is handles real life accident is quite unscientific (& un-bhpian) way, in my humble opinion.

Originally Posted by Vik0728

Absolutely anupmathur you are spot on about that fact and there are no 2 ways to this.

It is quite vague and too very assumptive to say that had this been an Audi Q3 or BMW X1, we could have had survivors. It is not clear the speed of impact, impact source, etc.
That impact is so sever that I really doubt if even seat belts or air bags would have been of little use here.

Condolences to the family. But the brighter side of all this is here:

Originally Posted by KiloAlpha

By the looks of it, the Innova rear-ended a truck. By any chance, did you notice a truck standing on the side a few metres ahead? There may or may not be visible damage to the truck.

If the Ertiga hit a truck, at highway speeds, then no amount of the much touted structural safety engineering is going to help. As mentioned by others in this matter, the Ertiga would have taken a hit very high up, close to the A-pillar, so the crumple zones would not have functioned as designed in such an impact.

Originally Posted by LordSharan

Please give up on brand bashing unnecessarily. Cars, in that matter, all vehicles are meant to be driven responsibly following traffic rules and accounting for safety margins.

You know, despite doing all these, one's luck may run out and he crashes because of someone else's mistake. Good luck to him suing god knows who!

Best,

Now, now guys. You people are looking at this from the wrong direction. This is not about Maruti or any other brand. It's about the seriousness to be understood about the consequences and resulting forces causing crushing damage in the event of a CAR COLLIDING WITH A MOVING TRUCK!

Now brands make very little difference here, except, maybe in some circumstances where the truck was stationary. Here Beemers and and mercs may have an edge upto a large extent. That too in particular scenarios only.

Other than that, listen up, any way you look at it, YOU CANNOT EXPECT A CAR TO NOT GET SMASHED UP, LIKE THE CASE IN QUESTION, IN EVENT OF A COLLISION WITH A TRUCK. Period. You just have to understand the amount of forces at play behind something coming at you weighing in the area of at least 10-15 tonnes or more. At speed. The sheer weight seems to multiply the resulting momentum and damage. It's not imaginable I guess, until you witness how damaging it can be in front of you. Even in a diagonal collision.

The only vehicle I can imagine here which wouldn't buckle up completely is, yes you guessed it right, A TANK!! The tank will survive, can't say the same about the occupants though.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by pixantz

Other than that, listen up, any way you look at it, YOU CANNOT EXPECT A CAR TO NOT GET SMASHED UP, LIKE THE CASE IN QUESTION, IN EVENT OF A COLLISION WITH A TRUCK. Period.

Many of us have tried to get this message across before. We have had little success.

I just hope that it doesn't mean that there people driving around thinking that their car would be ok in these accidents, because no, it wouldn't. Not even the Mercs and BMWs etc.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by pixantz

Now, now guys. You people are looking at this from the wrong direction. This is not about Maruti or any other brand. It's about the seriousness to be understood about the consequences and resulting forces causing crushing damage in the event of a CAR COLLIDING WITH A MOVING TRUCK!

The only vehicle I can imagine here which wouldn't buckle up completely is, yes you guessed it right, A TANK!! The tank will survive, can't say the same about the occupants though.

Well summarised. And to add to this, if it were really a tank, the truck would have ended up like the Ertiga. Simple physics. Lets not convert this Accidents In India with Pictures to a debate on sheet metal thickness and brand since thats for a different thread. Yes it does matter, but that doesnt make you totally unscathed in an accident.

The structure is designed to take the impact and sacrifice itself, but the passengers inside should also adhere to rules like wearing seatbelts and following proper loading guidelines. Many a times even in well built vehicles people die because they are thrown around in the car or smash up each other if the car is overloaded. Ideally a frontal collision force is transferred along the pillar and the running board area all the way to the rear of the car. So a heavily damaged car doesnt necessarily mean its unsafe.

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Many of us have tried to get this message across before. We have had little success.

I just hope that it doesn't mean that there people driving around thinking that their car would be ok in these accidents, because no, it wouldn't. Not even the Mercs and BMWs etc.

There are people who hate few brands to the core. So, whenever they see these brand involved in a accident, they jump in to action and start cribbing about its built quality even without understanding about the impact that it has gone through.

So we will keep seeing such statements till those people start thinking sensibly on such impacts.

[suresh_gs]

Originally Posted by hemant.kamat

4 Goans including Mr & Mrs Dhananjay Narvekar from Amona Bicholim, Santosh Naik from Panaji, Ertiga vehicle owner Girish killed at Sankeshwar on Belgavi - Pune NH on early Saturday

http://www.navhindtimes.in/4-killed-...at-sankeshwar/

Where is the "body structure made of higher tensile steel and carefully positioned reinforcements" that Maruti advertises? It's high time that Maruti was made liable for false & misleading advertising.

We do not know details like at what was the speed of the Ertiga at the time of impact and the details of the other vehicle involved.
Not correct to blame Maruti for this. I do accept the fact that Maruti cars build quality is poor when compared to Fiat cars.

[racerdabba]

Just as I thought of posting that someone will come and compare the build quality of Maruti vs Fiat, I saw its already been done. And no, my dear Fiat fans, a Fiat wouldn't have survived that crash with a broken bumper. It'd have been smashed as bad if not worse. Fiat cars are not made of titanium alloys.

As for me, I had my early days of motorcycling when I though riding lidless and cutting through cars like a maniac was cool. I'm not happy about it today, but then I cared two hoots. After multiple crashes in front of my eyes, some involving friends who died, I am a changed person.

Someone commented he was surprised. Yes sir. I do not cut lanes. Not unless I have enough space and use blinkers for the same. I stop at signals. Even the long, really long ones. I have had instances where I was bang before the stop line, cars on both sides way ahead of me. And cars behind me honking like crazy telling me to move ahead.
People make fun of me as to why I am all jacketed up in peak summer. I am given long hard stares as if I've committed some kind of crime. And everyone assumes I ride so hard and fast that I need gear all the time.

Just like good drivers exist, good bikers do too. I never enter a wrong Lane. I'll go and take a u turn at the next intersection even if it means me driving a km ahead. Car or bike. My friends seem pretty pissed off with me regarding these. But when you learn, you learn. You live by your rules, no questions asked.

I've been involved in a lot of OT posts in this thread, I apologise for that. Now that the debate is pretty much over, you guys carry on.

[ramzsys]

From facebook:

"Today on the Kanchipuram bypass, at around 120km/hr. Collision between a truck and Ford Fiesta top end variant. Not a single scratch on the car's occupants. Airbags save lives. So always buy the top end."

[honeybee]

I went through several FB posts discussing the accident involving Veenu Paliwal. I am guessing the recent debate here about inherent safety of bikes and cars probably is born out of this incident. I also came across a post involving a smashed up Maruti car and the manufacturer being slammed for making unsafe cars.

Some questions:

When you have your own kids to return to, who depend on you and are waiting for you to return, do you feel the need to let off the accelerator and slow down? When traversing the length and breadth of the country where roads and hazards are unknown, shouldn't one be much more careful than just be wearing protective gear? All we are discussing here are chances of injury or chances of survival. Given a different setting, if all of us were to take the chance, I am sure a majority would just prefer not to take any chances. So why this madness?

Second: For every fool proof system, there is a system proof idiot. Next time we see a mangled vehicle, shall we wonder, 'Wouldn't it have been better if the driver had let off the speed or aggression and kept to saner speeds or had had a power nap?' If we do not have the sense to know our own limits and the vehicle's limits, perhaps we ought not to drive, instead of blaming the manufacturer.

[LoneRidder]

Originally Posted by ramzsys

from facebook:

"Today In kanchipuram Bye pass Around 120km/hr speed straight to straight lorry and Ford Fiesta topend car crashed."

Happy that all the occupants came out alive. Looking at the car, it is definitely not head-on collusion. I guess the car had brush passed the lorry. Was it while overtaking? Those roads are two way roads, or may be someone come on wrong direction!

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by ramzsys

"Today In kanchipuram Bye pass Around 120km/hr speed straight to straight lorry and Ford Fiesta topend car crashed.

But single scratch not happen to car passengers. Air bag saves life. So always buy a top end model car"

From what I see, the car has not sustained any damage that suggests a head-on collision. The so-claimed lorry might have brushed the car (or the other way) at speed and the Fiesta driver ended up swerving the car and into the bushes. Looks more plausible than a head-on.

[LoneRidder]

Originally Posted by honeybee

Some questions:
When you have your own kids to return to, who depend on you and are waiting for you to return, do you feel the need to let off the accelerator and slow down? When traversing the length and breadth of the country where roads and hazards are unknown, shouldn't one be much more careful than just be wearing protective gear? All we are discussing here are chances of injury or chances of survival. Given a different setting, if all of us were to take the chance, I am sure a majority would just prefer not to take any chances. So why this madness?
.

Well, we all live in circumstance; there is no option to deny this! Your situation and my situation vary and we take decisions and act/react in different ways. Accidents do happen, and it will happen.

Now the question is how to minimize the number of accidents. The answer is in your statement: Being aware of hazards roads, practising safe driving, being considerate to fellow member on the road etc. If, yes if, we all practice this, it would become habit and habits make culture! Pew! Simple it is!

Originally Posted by honeybee

Second: For every fool proof system, there is a system proof idiot. Next time we see a mangled vehicle, shall we wonder, 'Wouldn't it have been better if the driver had let off the speed or aggression and kept to saner speeds or had had a power nap?' If we do not have the sense to know our own limits and the vehicle's limits, perhaps we ought not to drive, instead of blaming the manufacturer.

Well, if we build that "culture" may companies would run out of business. We would not require ABS, Airbags, ESP etc. Unfortunately we all human beings are not alike and will not behave alike. So there would be always a small percentage that would always try to jump the gun. So to be safe from those small numbers "we all" require the safety features, just in case an Accidents occur!

There are many specimens on the roads. Yesterday, I came in two wheeler to my office. I was trying to move from left lane to right lane as I had to take a 'U' turn 200 meters ahead. I had almost reached my right lane. Suddenly I see in my RVM a maniac in Amaze come with full speed honking, I ensure I did not go to full right and give him space to overtake me. To my disbelief, after overtaking this guy now moves from right to left lane (3 lanes to the left). This he would have easily done without even overtaking me. From the car badges, I understand that he works for a reputed IT company and he is in his early. What do we do with him?

[GTO]

Mod Note: Please don't go off-topic anymore. We have other threads to discuss motorcycles & safety. Thanks!

Lets stick to discussing specific accidents here. Any other off-topic discussions will be deleted.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by hemant.kamat

http://www.navhindtimes.in/4-killed-...at-sankeshwar/

Where is the "body structure made of higher tensile steel and carefully positioned reinforcements" that Maruti advertises?

No such thing as a 'death proof' car, pal. People die even in what is considered the safest car in the world. Whether you are in a Maruti 800 or a 'tank', safe driving & having lady luck on your side is the only way to survive on our roads.

Related Thread

[racerdabba]

Originally Posted by honeybee

When you have your own kids to return to, who depend on you and are waiting for you to return, do you feel the need to let off the accelerator and slow down?

Let me just narrate an incident related to this. I was driving from Bokaro(Jharkhand) to Angul(Odisha) alone, about 600kms. The roads are two Lane highways from start to end, wide roads, good surface, but undivided. Just before Jamshedpur, there is this railway crossing in the middle of a village. The road gets narrower and the houses are almost on the road. I knew that route so I used to slow down to 50-60 in that stretch. While waiting at the crossing, an duster comes up to my right, blocking the oncoming Lane. ( I hate such people) a guy in late 30s with his wife were visible. As soon as the crossing opened, the guy jinks and cuts in to my Lane and rushes away accelerating like no one's business. I follow, about 500 mtrs ahead, a small child darts across the road, the guy swerves and hits a tree nearby. I race to the spot, find the guy half conscious, open the door somehow, pull him out. No one was belted, guy broke his arm on the steering and was in shock. His wife hit the dash and was unconscious.

The real shock awaited me. A two year old kid, who was in the middle row, was thrown forward and was not breathing. With the help of some others, I load them in my car, rush to a hospital in Jamshedpur, where the doctors declared the kid as dead and wife in coma because of internal injuries.

I called up the guys brother, and left the place as his family arrived. I was left thinking. Would I ever do something this stupid with my family with me? He was a local who had been on that route numerous times. He knew the roads better than I did. I sometimes drive fast on empty streets too. I don't anymore.