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Old 8th May 2018, 10:47   #26311
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by Acharya View Post
I wonder why Innova driver didn't try to make any maneuver after hitting the person and end up running over the guy with both front & rear wheels.
Either he was shocked, didn't know how to react or it's case of poor driving, he could have avoided running over the person.
I believe that the damaged windscreen also played a role by reducing visibility. Yes, I am sure that the driver would have been shocked.
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Old 8th May 2018, 10:47   #26312
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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
The airbag sensors are located at the bottom of the chassis. The chassis might not receive a direct impact force but was probably bent due to the body distortion.
Airbag sensors are not something physical that someone needs to hit hard or press. They are a tried and tested technology much like accelerometers in a mid to high end phone.

To my knowledge and whatever I could gather from the web, the airbag sensors are accelerometers that are located within the vehicle at different locations depending on the make and model. These devices work by detecting sudden change in motion and convert that input as a signal to inflate the airbags, tighten seat belts and a bunch of other things again depending on the car and model. Most modern cars will have a seat weight sensor (the stuff that restrict acceleration and signals to put the seat belt on) and older cars will detect if the seat belt was locked.

Coming to the Fortuner, it seems the tow truck end has just cut through it like a knife (which is expected given the sharp end they usually have) bringing the Fortuner to a sudden stop. Ergo, airbags should have deployed. If they have not then either Toyota did something terribly wrong in calibrating them or the service folks screwed it up somewhere down the line. I suspect the later.
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Old 8th May 2018, 10:52   #26313
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Originally Posted by Acharya View Post
I wonder why Innova driver didn't try to make any maneuver after hitting the person and end up running over the guy with both front & rear wheels.
Either he was shocked, didn't know how to react or it's case of poor driving, he could have avoided running over the person.

There is no doubt it's a mistake from pedestrian, however there was a possibility of not running him over and perhaps, saving his life.

Unfortunate!
These things happen in a blink of an eye. The windshield could have been shattered with no visibility and shock is another reason. I have seen so may crash videos on youtube channels and always wonder why do cars keep rolling after an accident and not break. May be experts can shed some light.
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Old 8th May 2018, 11:14   #26314
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Originally Posted by tazmaan View Post
I have seen so may crash videos on youtube channels and always wonder why do cars keep rolling after an accident and not break. May be experts can shed some light.
One reason could be the driver is unable to control the vehicle. Maybe the driver was dislodged from his seat, was shocked or otherwise incapacitated to take any action to control the car.
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Old 8th May 2018, 11:59   #26315
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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
I read the pdf, vehicle pools were considered between 1980 and 2005 with average model year being 1997. We all know how far crash safety has come since then. Even up until 2014 small cars were not capable of doing well in small frontal offset impacts. This includes relatively heavy small cars as well. It is very easy to come to such conclusions based on a few numbers but without fully reading how those numbers have come to be, it is premature to make statements.
Just read up theory of elastic and in-elastic collision when you get time. All things remaining equal in a collision the lighter object always receives a higher impulse compared to a heavier object. Hence in a head on collision all other things being equal a heavier vehicle will be safer.
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Old 8th May 2018, 12:00   #26316
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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
.. vehicle pools were considered between 1980 and 2005 with average model year being 1997. We all know how far crash safety has come since then.
Its a fact that structural safety has increased by leaps and bounds in older vs current models.
However, in the event of a collision between a heavy-well built-high-safety-rated car and a light-wellbuilt-high-safety-rated car, the occupants in the heavier car are at a safety advantage, just simple physics.
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Old 8th May 2018, 12:30   #26317
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Seeing the new Swift/Dzires' accident pics really makes me warey for the upcoming Ertiga, which has a weight reduction of 100kg despite growing by 10cmx 4cm! Is a few KMPL worth the risk of totaling the car by a rickshaw/tempo?

A curious finding for comparison of Kerb weights of Maruti Diesel vehicles:
S-Cross: 1215kg
Brezza: 1170Kg
Swift: 985Kg
Baleno: 985 Kg
Dzire: 990 Kg

If Brezza is same in length as Dzire/Baleno, then where did the additional 180KGs go? Its panel quality is not as thick as Ecosport, so is this weight all in chassis?

Looking purely at the weight, I feel S-cross and Brezza are good weighty cars (though brezza feels inferior in quality to S-cross). The heartech platform gets praises for being light weight and wide and higher mileage, but the pics in this thread are not confidence-inspiring.

Last edited by ajmat : 8th May 2018 at 14:34. Reason: typo
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Old 8th May 2018, 13:16   #26318
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Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
Just read up theory of elastic and in-elastic collision when you get time. All things remaining equal in a collision the lighter object always receives a higher impulse compared to a heavier object. Hence in a head on collision all other things being equal a heavier vehicle will be safer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by for_cars1 View Post
Its a fact that structural safety has increased by leaps and bounds in older vs current models.
However, in the event of a collision between a heavy-well built-high-safety-rated car and a light-wellbuilt-high-safety-rated car, the occupants in the heavier car are at a safety advantage, just simple physics.
+1. This is what I was referring to. In case of an accident between two cars with same NCAP ratings, chances of the occupants being safer are higher in the car with more bulk, weight.

Consider the case of a 1.5/2 ton SUV(irrespective of NCAP ratings) T-boning a hatchback with weight 'x' vs a european hatchback with weight '1.2x' with same NCAP rating. The passengers in the heavier car are much more safer, at least theoretically.

Besides, correct me if I am wrong, the NCAP tests primarily simulate inelastic collision's, which are valid in case a car hits a stationary object (eg. a truck, tree etc.). Which is one reason one should solely not rely on NCAP ratings only.

Last edited by jetsetgo08 : 8th May 2018 at 13:19.
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Old 8th May 2018, 13:19   #26319
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Originally Posted by samaspire View Post
But here it looks...the impact speed would have reduced to less than the threshold for Airbag deployment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
The chassis might not receive a direct impact force but was probably bent due to the body distortion.
Sam and Ajeet, let us for once put all the science, engineering and logic behind and discuss a very simple aspect. I, you and everyone else here on this wonderful forum drives on the roads. Here are the pics of a Yeti from this very same forum which had met with a 'minor' accident.

Just look at the pics of Fortuner and the Yeti and simply tell me, which car anyone here in this forum would want to be into in case of a crash of same magnitude as of Fortuner?

My vote goes for Yeti, because insurance will cover that extra cost even if the airbags are deployed when not required to, but having them not deploy even when required is what I won't want to afford.

Yeti in question:
Name:  Yeti 1.jpg
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Size:  555.1 KB

Name:  Yeti 2.jpg
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Size:  530.1 KB

Member VBN's car
Source: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2798559


Quote:
Originally Posted by Acharya View Post
Toyota better explain this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acharya View Post
If the speed was high enough to bend the metal bar of frame, then the impact should result in airbag deployment.
No two ways about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
recall and fix the problem if it exists.
Same are my thoughts, the safety components like tyres, airbags, brakes etc don't require any kind of explanations if they fail in spite of being properly maintained. IF a car has hit anything strong enough that the impact force has reached the cabin - the airbags should deploy; they can make a difference between life and death after all and people pay for life saver technologies because they ARE expected to work they way they are supposed to.

Pics: Accidents in India-fort.jpeg

As we can see in this image, the steering column of the car is collapsed (It is collapsible after all - for crash protection), by no ways it is acceptable that the airbags didn't deploy here.

Toyota is definitely answerable in this case at least!

Quote:
Originally Posted by for_cars1 View Post
There is a reason why cars like VWs, Mercs, BMWs are structurally strong with crumple zones et-all yet are built heavy. Its not that they don't have the expertise to build flyweight yet strong cars.
Indeed, the crumple zone is something that is supposed to crumple in case of a crash and dissipate a lot of kinetic energy - simple! But, they are not supposed to be made of paper that they will simply crumple - they have to be strong enough to crumple only when the impact is actually strong enough which they should actually 'absorb' giving the required deceleration and energy dissipation.

Simple, if you have a 2 tonne load coming down an elevator - the springs at the base will be the ones which can handle that load - not the springs of namesake which will simply depress themselves to the full even if the elevator is empty and made to rest on them.

In other words, either the Maruti R&D is too smart or the R&D engineers in the companies which have higher R&D spending than probably the entire value of Maruti itself, are fools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktisarangi View Post
Maruti has wilfully ignored the safety of Indian customers.
You are talking about the same company whose head wants the BNVSAP tests to be conducted at a speed of 20 km/hr.

This statement itself says everything about how much they actually value the safety. They saw that people have started demanding ABS and airbags - they happily gave it - not for safety, but for addressing the new demand in the market.

Quote:
The Indian customer unfortunately does not understand the concept of safety and is more than happy shelling out money a Maruti car due to mileage and resale values.
  • Nimbu - mirchi is the biggest safety
  • "Don't talk about accidents, we will not meet one - our God is in the car"
  • "Buy on right date and time as per pandit ji, it will never crash"
  • "Put those black threads type things on the frotn and rear bumper (Yes, that ugly one), no evil eye - full safety"
This way safety is taken care by these things, rest is mileage and resale which the Maruti car delivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayanksabharwal View Post
New Dzire after colliding with a tempo. There is no damage to the tempo.
Those are crumple zones at work. don't you know? The car has crumpled protecting the occupants. No matter if the bumper of the truck even reaches the dashboard and hits directly the passenger, crumple zones are still working.

Last edited by VKumar : 8th May 2018 at 13:20.
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Old 8th May 2018, 13:49   #26320
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People have gone mad is all I can say. The guy could have moved his bike to the side or the bus driver could have waited a bit. But no the bus driver had to almost run over the riders left foot to prove a point.
Extremely stupid on part of the biker. In such scenario, the first thing to do is to get out of the way and then assess the damage. I have seen numerous incidents where the accident itself didn't damage as much as speeding traffic mowing people/ vehicles down. Not defending the bus driver but had the bus been cruising, it would be hard to brake and stop in time.
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Old 8th May 2018, 17:10   #26321
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Originally Posted by chandra1 View Post
A had an accident a few days back when as driving from Noida to Hyderabad. The place was near Seoni, MP. These were smooth ghat roads, the traffic was sparse and I was cruising at a speed of 90-100. It was drizzling that morning and the roads were wet.
There came this turn with good slope angle and I started applying brakes. I suddenly felt like the car was not in control and was was going to left. I tried to control it with steering while applying brakes but to no avail. I thin two quick turns, slope, slippery roads and sudden braking and steering input led me to lose control of the vehicle.

The car skidded, took a 180 degree clockwise turn and the left corner hit the divider hard. The impact caused the car to take another 90 degree clockwise turn while it also caused the rear of the car to jump a little and land on the divider. Luckily the divider had loose gravel and moist soil on it which stopped the vehicle right there.

Chandra, check todays TOI. seems some problem with balenos and dzires being recalled. Sue Maruti left right and center for this.

Service campaign has been launched to inspect and fix a possible issue with the brake vacuum hose which is a part of the brake booster system
The brakes of the affected vehicles will still work but the fault reduces the braking force significantly

Last edited by ajmat : 8th May 2018 at 22:26.
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Old 8th May 2018, 20:56   #26322
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Chandra, check todays TOI. seems some problem with balenos and dzires being recalled. Sue Maruti left right and center for this.
He has already isolated the cause of his mishap: wet road with breaking on a curve. No need to sue anybody.

Whilst there may be abbreviations on higher-end cars that try to help a person in this situation, it can still end up being just physics.

I remember a salesman who had managed to brown-stuff his way to having the most powerful car on the fleet. He wrote it off. Credit where it is due, he sheepishly admitted: "I just found out the hard way not to brake on a corner." And I recall part of one of my journeys being sideways along the roadside when a bend turned out to be a lot sharper than expected. No harm done: nothing was in the way, and my speed was slow. In fact, too slow for skidding sideways, but it still happened.
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Old 8th May 2018, 21:04   #26323
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Originally Posted by mayanksabharwal View Post
New Dzire after colliding with a tempo. There is no damage to the tempo.
Someone has uploaded the cctv footage of the Dzire accident on YouTube. See from 00:20 minutes.

Last edited by Sherlocked : 8th May 2018 at 21:15.
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Old 8th May 2018, 21:22   #26324
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Originally Posted by mayanksabharwal View Post
New Maruti Swift first crash reported. .
It looks like Swift toppled at high speed and fell on Auto deforming the Auto like a sandwich. This is in no way a T-bone hit to swift, since impact would have crushed Auto is a different way.
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Old 8th May 2018, 21:46   #26325
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Originally Posted by Sherlocked View Post
Someone has uploaded the cctv footage of the Dzire accident on YouTube. See from 00:20 minutes.
No need to talk about the quality of the car: lots of need to talk about the quality of the driver. Straight into stationary mini-truck. And then the Skoda (?) was too close to stop... and number three was a near miss.
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