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Old 25th July 2018, 22:01   #26791
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by ecenandu View Post
The video complaints about the MVD vehicle not stopping by to help the accident victims.
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Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
As for the MVD, their attitude must have been 'this is not our problem, why get involved'.
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Originally Posted by darklord View Post
Police released a video showing the MVD vehicle stopping just beyond the first camera (but covered in another cam) and officers walking back to the accident site.
It was refreshing to see the news house which was vociferously blaming the MVD personnel, having to eat their own words. Sensationalizing the incident to score brownie points is nothing new, but this one has happened in quick succession.

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Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
The bus driver needs to be given an award for not having hit that rickshaw. Unfortunately, his efforts to save the rickshaw put his and his passengers lives in danger. I hope there were no serious injuries to any of them...
The bus driver, though traumatised, has escaped from being the scapegoat, thanks to the footage.
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Old 25th July 2018, 22:22   #26792
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
I also hope the auto driver is behind bars and is never allowed to drive again. Heights of stupidity.
I do not think it is legal for him to cover/blackout the entire side of his auto. While on our Kerala vacation, I saw several autos do this during rains. Staying dry should not be at the cost of driving partially blind. Had he not blacked out the side, he would have seen the approaching bus. They need to use transparent plastic/window at the least for the part that covers the driver. This is the cost of bad juggad.
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Old 25th July 2018, 23:17   #26793
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon View Post
I do not think it is legal for him to cover/blackout the entire side of his auto. While on our Kerala vacation, I saw several autos do this during rains. Staying dry should not be at the cost of driving partially blind. Had he not blacked out the side, he would have seen the approaching bus. They need to use transparent plastic/window at the least for the part that covers the driver. This is the cost of bad juggad.
If you ask me, the very contraption called the autorickshaw should be banned. They are probably the most unsafe means of transportation in India. The driving position is absolutely flawed. The drivers have to rely entirely on the mirrors with very limited peripheral vision. And how many of them actually use the mirrors? How many of them have the mirrors positioned to give them a good view of what is happening behind them? How many rickshaws have a well designed mirror considering they are the most important item for the driver? And, added to all this, I think sitting in the middle of the vehicle gives them a feeling that they are driving a Formula 1 car, and so they drive like they are on a race track. Plus, they are pesky because they squeeze into the tiniest of gaps.

Have you seen those 3 wheelers with the box shaped goods container fitted? The mirrors are way inside the extremes of the box that I am sure that the driver can see nothing other than his own cargo box on them. You only move into his view when you are parallel to the driver seat.

Coming back to the topic, I think these rickshaws have factory fitted tarpaulin curtains. Mostly I have seen them only for the passengers and rarely for the driver. So in all probability, this is a jugaad. Whatever it is, blacked out or not, his primary tools are his mirrors, which he should have checked. But in this case, I think even the mirrors were blocked by that tarpaulin, and he decided to take a blind turn, without an element of doubt that he could be running into someone's path.

Well, it's a really sad state of affairs on our roads. When will people learn? Forget obeying the rules, when will people at least start using their common sense?
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Old 26th July 2018, 10:43   #26794
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
If you ask me, the very contraption called the autorickshaw should be banned. They are probably the most unsafe means of transportation in India.
And then replace it with what? The rural India is not that developed where everyone can afford a taxi. Unsafe, well - you do not see as many auto rickshaw accidents on the road as that of the cars. Not as many people have died compared to car accidents. It may have its limitations, doesn't mean it is unsafe. By that logic, even walking on a road side is unsafe.
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Old 26th July 2018, 10:57   #26795
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Accident in Nainital claims one life. Reports say that the occupants were shooting videos and selfies while driving which probably distracted the driver leading to the accident.
https://www.ndtv.com/others-news/in-...home-topscroll
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The police have found the phone on which the video was shot. In the video, the three can be seen smiling and talking, while the man behind the wheels, was looking at the phone camera intermittently said the police. After a while, the video goes hazy. And probably at that moment the driver lost control and the vehicle rolled down the mountain slope, the police told NDTV.
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Old 26th July 2018, 11:50   #26796
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Similar incident in Bangalore.

Riding with two pillion members and a unbuckled helmet.
When will people learn to value their lives.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...campaign=cppst

Last edited by navin : 26th July 2018 at 13:58. Reason: fixed URL
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Old 26th July 2018, 12:58   #26797
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
And then replace it with what? The rural India is not that developed where everyone can afford a taxi.
A family of 5 (2 adults and 3 kids) cannot afford a car, so they pile on to a 100cc 2 wheeler and do a circus on the road. They cannot afford a car, so is their action justified? Similarly, just because people cannot afford a taxi, doesn't mean the rickshaw is the only other option. There are so many 4 wheeled options now like the Tata Magic, which are slightly more safer than a 3 wheeled rickshaw that are inherently more unsafe and unbalanced.

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Unsafe, well - you do not see as many auto rickshaw accidents on the road as that of the cars. Not as many people have died compared to car accidents. It may have its limitations, doesn't mean it is unsafe.
What makes you think there are not many rickshaw accidents and that not many people die in them? That is highly debatable because the number of cars are far greater than the number of rickshaws. Even in the slightest collision with another rickshaw, a car, or a bigger vehicle, the occupants of the rickshaw are bound to suffer. Why, I have seen several cases where the auto was decimated by two wheelers at high speed.

Let me list out a few of the reasons why, IMO, the rickshaw is a very unsafe contraption in today's times:

1. No safety systems whatsoever - not even a seat belt nor the scope to fit one effectively.

2. You are sitting within the crumple zone all the time. No structural strength to talk about.

3. Absolutely nothing to protect the driver even in a minor collision.

4. Absolutely no protection for the passengers in the event of a collision. Everything is solid iron. You bang into solid iron even if it is a minor collision.

5. Inherently unstable. All the weight is concentrated on the rear axle, especially the RE ones. Weight of the engine + weight of the passengers who are mostly packed like sardines and hence way over loaded. Makes the rickshaw ready for a take off. Any sudden manoeuvres, even at slow speed, and it is bound to topple.

6. Poor handling characteristics with thin, small diameter tires, aggravated by point No.5. Inadequate brakes with very little contact patch in relation to the mass of the over loaded vehicle.

7. Ergonomic disaster. The seats must be pretty uncomfortable for the driver, making them fidget and shift weight all the time.

8. Flawed driving position with very little peripheral vision. Driver has to rely entirely on the ORVMs.

9. Crudely made with sharp edges every where with no attempt to cushion an impact.

10. Mostly driven very badly, annoying others on the road. Pesky in nature. Squeeze into the slightest of gaps - this is more to do with the drivers - but then, that makes the rickshaw a danger.

11. Very poor lights, wipers and offer no protection from the elements except for the thin roof on top.

12. No doors to keep the occupants inside in case of a topple. The driver and the passengers get thrown out and many times land under the rickshaw.

I think I will stop here.

Quote:
By that logic, even walking on a road side is unsafe.
Yes, walking on the road in India IS unsafe. You have to exercise caution all the time. You cannot ban people from walking on the road, but you can ban these dangerous rickshaws, now that you have other (slightly more expensive) alternatives. Why do you think there are no 3 wheeled rickshaws in the developed world?

Last edited by SCORPION : 26th July 2018 at 13:08.
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Old 26th July 2018, 13:00   #26798
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
And then replace it with what? The rural India is not that developed where everyone can afford a taxi.
IMHO, the auto rickshaw has these inherent problems (many more to list down, but I stop at these for the time being):
- unstable, because it has only 3 wheels
- blind spots, due to the position of the driver seat
- unnecessarily too nimble, again because of 3 wheels
... not talking about the nut driving it.

Alternatives, there are a few:
Tata Magic Iris
Tata Magic
Mahindra Gio
Mahindra Maxximo
Force Trump

All the above have 4 wheels, so better stability than the auto
Car-like driving position and cabin, so blind spots can br reduced
Not as nimble as a 3 wheeler, combined with a lower PTWR, they're never contenders for signal light drags.

Things boil down to the initial investment and running costs. The autos win by a huge margin, and this is where legislation can help. For example, a rule that bans autos combined with a subsidy or a discount on the purchase of a relatively safer alternative in lieu of the auto that has to be junked.

The Tata Magic Iris is a popular alternative to the auto in rural Kerala. They cannot be driven as maniacally as an auto.

Last edited by silversteed : 26th July 2018 at 13:05.
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Old 26th July 2018, 13:08   #26799
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
And then replace it with what?
Just because a replacement may not be available, it should not automatically equate to letting people do as they wish. It may actually be detrimental to other lives. I would not want that on my conscience, should that ever happen while I am driving.

For example, in Maharashtra everyone was using plastic a lot till the ban came along. Now people are forced to look for alternatives; and believe me it is not that difficult. A little inconvenient or more expensive in the short term, but overall beneficial in the long term.

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Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
Yes, walking on the road in India IS unsafe. You have to exercise caution all the time. You cannot ban people from walking on the road, but you can ban these dangerous rickshaws, now that you have other (slightly more expensive) alternatives. Why do you think there are no 3 wheeled rickshaws in the developed world?
In a developed country, roads are for travelling. We are not considered as a developed country for poor infrastructure. Our roads are used for walking, commodity trading, parking, protesting, celebrating, mourning, drying agricultural produce and multiple other things. Travelling on roads is almost frowned upon.
It can be compared to how we treat rivers. In India, they are used for multiple activities; in developed countries they usually only carry water and sometimes transport people.

Last edited by selfdrive : 26th July 2018 at 13:10.
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Old 26th July 2018, 13:40   #26800
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
If you ask me, the very contraption called the autorickshaw should be banned. They are probably the most unsafe means of transportation in India.
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Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
And then replace it with what? The rural India is not that developed where everyone can afford a taxi....It may have its limitations, doesn't mean it is unsafe.
As many others have by now opined, autorickshaws are inherently flawed. All 3 wheeled vehicles are flawed in terms of (in)stability first and foremost.

To belabor this point, Jeremy Clarkson rolled a 3-wheeled Reliant Robin so many times for our mirth. To refresh our memories, here's a clip of the said episode -



One of my earliest childhood memories is of a Bajaj auto being driven way too fast through our street in Chennai in the early '90s, only to roll over at the street corner. A passenger who was thrown out went into shock because of his injuries...it's something I'll never forget. The driver's foot was pinned by the toppled auto. In fact, now that I think about it - limbs getting pinned by toppled autorickshaws and people getting flung out are staple features of accidents involving autorickshaws. Other autorickshaw accidents over the years come to mind...

As far as alternatives are concerned, to add on to the ones mentioned by others, the upcoming Bajaj Qute seems to be a good and frugal option. It's a relatively stable 4-wheeled vehicle with covered doors, windows and adequate all-round visibility. No more tarpaulin on the sides when it rains.
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Old 26th July 2018, 14:22   #26801
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
And then replace it with what? The rural India is not that developed where everyone can afford a taxi. Unsafe, well - you do not see as many auto rickshaw accidents on the road as that of the cars. Not as many people have died compared to car accidents. It may have its limitations, doesn't mean it is unsafe. By that logic, even walking on a road side is unsafe.
There are many small cars that don't cost much more but are relatively much safer. Examples would be the Tata Nano, Maruti Alto or Hyundai Eon. The government can provide some subsidy or cheap loans to the current auto rickshaw owners to help them upgrade. It is deplorable that in 2018 we don't even have a plan for phasing out these contraptions even in big cities. Cycle rickshaws are even worse and should have been phased out by 1980s at the latest. Thailand and Indonesia have drastically reduced the number of three wheelers in the past decade and we need to follow suit. Let us start with major cities at the very least.
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Old 26th July 2018, 17:21   #26802
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
There are many small cars that don't cost much more but are relatively much safer. Examples would be the Tata Nano, Maruti Alto or Hyundai Eon. The government can provide some subsidy or cheap loans to the current auto rickshaw owners to help them upgrade.
Let's say we replace all autos with cars. What are we going to replace their brains with? Now they are riding at max 60kmph or so. With cars, they will start terrorizing by riding in 3digit speeds with all the james bond moves which they learned by driving autos.

I don't think entire problem is just because they are driving an auto, but it's because of driving style they are following. I agree that some of those driving styles are developed due to the characteristics of autorickshaw, but not entirely. I would say it's the same case with bike riders also. In my opinion, people should learn driving cars first and then start driving 2/3 wheelers only after driving car for a few years. This will help people to get used to slow maneuvers than sudden turns which is easier with 2/3 wheeler. Moreover, after seeing how many close calls smaller vehicles are having with your car, they would realize that we should ride more carefully to avoid accidents. (I know that this is not going to solve everything unless Indian's road manners and law enforcement also improve. But this might at lease help in improving driving styles).
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Old 26th July 2018, 17:50   #26803
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
Let me list out a few of the reasons why, IMO, the rickshaw is a very unsafe contraption in today's times:
13. with the handlebar like a scooter, and a rear end like a 4 wheeler, its very difficult to perceive direction changes that the auto gets to enjoy and employ, for anyone behind the auto. It's cursed with an unscrupulous combination of the worst of the two worlds - quick direction changes of a two wheeler, with visibility obstruction of a four wheeler. Combine it with the central seating and low peripheral vision of the auto-driver, its the perfect recipe for disaster.

If the vehicle on 3 wheels cannot be banned by the MVD, ATLEAST force it to be given a steering (small wheel, without power steering mechanism) instead of a handlebar and slow down the rate of change of direction
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Old 26th July 2018, 18:24   #26804
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
If the vehicle on 3 wheels cannot be banned by the MVD, ATLEAST force it to be given a steering (small wheel, without power steering mechanism) instead of a handlebar and slow down the rate of change of direction
This is a great idea. Apart from this they should have speed limiters and auto transmission with ECU remapped for Max efficiency thereby reducing the acceleration. The driving style is the main problem and the person inside feel superhuman most of the time and are ready to race with any car.
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Old 26th July 2018, 18:40   #26805
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Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
If the vehicle on 3 wheels cannot be banned by the MVD, ATLEAST force it to be given a steering (small wheel, without power steering mechanism) instead of a handlebar and slow down the rate of change of direction
I have seen a few Indian 3 wheelers with a steering wheel and the driver seated on the right side. Both passenger and goods. So it is not something that cannot be done. However, the other quirks still will remain unaddressed. It should have lockable doors too, as a minimum.
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Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
Let us start with major cities at the very least.
Rickshaws are banned in South Mumbai. It has been like that for a long time.

Last edited by SCORPION : 26th July 2018 at 18:50.
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