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Old 30th August 2021, 11:44   #33346
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Rear ending recorded my dash cam at Vashi bridge on 28th Aug 2021.

Perfect example on how not to tailgate even at low speeds.


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Old 30th August 2021, 11:57   #33347
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Originally Posted by tazmaan View Post
Rear ending recorded my dash cam at Vashi bridge on 28th Aug 2021.

Perfect example on how not to tailgate even at low speeds.
...
The idiot in the Ritz deserved the karma.

But more than his misfortune, I was paying attention to the way you left enough gap between your car and the Red Creta ahead. Well done . Hope more drivers on our roads follow this kind of defensive driving.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 30th August 2021 at 17:09. Reason: spacing for improved readability
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Old 30th August 2021, 12:05   #33348
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Originally Posted by tazmaan View Post
Rear ending recorded my dash cam at Vashi bridge on 28th Aug 2021.

Perfect example on how not to tailgate even at low speeds.
Seems like, for some reason, the Ritz accelerated instead of braking. Initially, it seemed to be slowing down then accelerated.

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Originally Posted by srvm View Post
But more than his misfortune, I was paying attention to the way you left enough gap between your car and the Red Creta ahead. Well done . Hope more drivers on our roads follow this kind of defensive driving.
I too have habit of leaving sufficient gap with vehicle in front. But then the idiots behind me start honking. Why people can't understand, it won't make the travel time any lesser.
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Old 30th August 2021, 12:20   #33349
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Originally Posted by tazmaan View Post
Rear ending recorded my dash cam at Vashi bridge on 28th Aug 2021.

Perfect example on how not to tailgate even at low speeds.
You are leaving too big a gap between you and the front vehicle. Not a good way to drive. The gap made the Ritz driver to think about changing the lane and merging into yours and he accelerated but he changed his mind which resulted in accident. This is also not tailgating.

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Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
I too have habit of leaving sufficient gap with vehicle in front. But then the idiots behind me start honking. Why people can't understand, it won't make the travel time any lesser.
Not everyone who honks is an idiot. Slow drivers cause more minor accidents than speedy ones. The gap between the two vehicles is too big, you can see the gap is more than a full length of a bus. This is the sign of a novice driver not that I am implying tamzmaan is one but it makes experienced drivers uneasy.
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Old 30th August 2021, 12:47   #33350
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The gap between the two vehicles is too big, you can see the gap is more than a full length of a bus. This is the sign of a novice driver not that I am implying tamzmaan is one but it makes experienced drivers uneasy.
Sorry, I may not have been clear when I made my previous rant. I too understand that if I take a nap while the vehicle in front of me moves few tens of meters, it's going to make people behind me nervous / worried for my physical and mental health.

However, if I am leaving gap of one vehicle (my vehicle) give or take a couple of feet, that should be allowed by the 'experienced drivers'. Though by law (on paper), if I (my vehicle) kiss the rear-end of someone (vehicle), its my fault. So, maintaining 'sufficient' gap is necessary.

May be I should put up a poster on rear of my vehicle "Please be patient, I too am an experienced driver and surely not planning to sleep in current spot". Hopefully that might ease some nerves.

Last edited by AutoNoob : 30th August 2021 at 12:49.
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Old 30th August 2021, 12:48   #33351
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Originally Posted by Sran View Post
You are leaving too big a gap between you and the front vehicle.
Sometimes when I'm driving in bumper to bumper traffic, I wait for couple of seconds to move, because I get existential crisis as the car in-front of me is going to stop couple of inches from its initial position. So sometimes, I also create equivalent spacing.

My usual stopping point is from where I should be able to see car's rear tires. But again, you have these bikers zig-zaging in-between cars. These spots are like a park for them.

Then I get this philosophical question, should I move close enough to the next car with an inch gap between bumpers and ruin these bikers happy moment (and get cruel satisfaction), or should leave them be, and try to calm myself down with meditation (or medication)?

And then you see a car trying to cut into your lane, because that guy sees a 30x40 real estate in that 2-feet gap you left.
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Old 30th August 2021, 13:06   #33352
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Originally Posted by Sran View Post
You are leaving too big a gap between you and the front vehicle. Not a good way to drive. The gap made the Ritz driver to think about changing the lane and merging into yours and he accelerated but he changed his mind which resulted in accident. This is also not tailgating.

Not everyone who honks is an idiot. Slow drivers cause more minor accidents than speedy ones. The gap between the two vehicles is too big, you can see the gap is more than a full length of a bus. This is the sign of a novice driver not that I am implying tamzmaan is one but it makes experienced drivers uneasy.
On a serious note though, drivers like you cause most of the traffic pile-ups in urban India. The gap left by the OP is more than justified considering that the traffic is not moving at a uniform pace and that he is driving a very big vehicle (a V-Cross if I am not mistaken). Experienced drivers would know not to cut in front of another vehicle in moving bumper to bumper traffic. Not implying that you are not one but such practices do make other sensible drivers wary.

Last edited by Sheel : 30th August 2021 at 14:10. Reason: Next instance of regional bias can earn you an infraction. Please be polite in your posts with fellow BHPians. Thank You!
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Old 30th August 2021, 14:18   #33353
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Originally Posted by sierrabravo98 View Post
The gap left by the OP is more than justified considering that the traffic is not moving at a uniform pace and that he is driving a very big vehicle (a V-Cross if I am not mistaken).
Yes I was driving the V-cross. The traffic pile up was huge and this was near the end of the traffic jam.

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Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
Sorry, I may not have been clear when I made my previous rant. I too understand that if I take a nap while the vehicle in front of me moves few tens of meters, it's going to make people behind me nervous / worried for my physical and mental health.
It does look like the Ritz driver panicked and pressed the accelerator along with the brake. The damage not seen in the video was substantial and being a cab driver I feel sorry for him since he would stand losing his job and money. No matter how much he deserved it or not, I was a bit upset that it happened to him. (I have driven cabs as my primary job during my studies in Australia).

Thats said the OLA, Ubers, other cabs usually drive sticking right behind other cars. They are on the road for 8 to 10 hours and time is money for them. A better training program is needed to educate them but I don't see that happening.

I keep suitable gap and find no pleasure in accelerating hard and braking hard often during long traffic jams.

Last edited by tazmaan : 30th August 2021 at 14:20.
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Old 30th August 2021, 14:40   #33354
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
According to my probably limited interpretation of the video, as soon as the car enters the frame it is headed directly for the truck, so there is no clue as to why it is travelling towards that collision.

There is plenty of road. Overtaking (Under, if that is what people like to to call it: such trucks often give no alternative) in a straight parallel line is just too easy. Why should it go wrong? And yet they drive straight at the truck and hit it.

Something happened before the vehicles came in frame? Or something is happening that we cannot see, the other side of the parked truck? I guess we can never know.
Probably the driver wanted to give a wide berth while overtaking the truck from the left. I can’t make out if the dirt path beyond the shoulder is much lower than the shoulder. If it is, by more than 4 inches, it’ll become very tough for any vehicle to brake hard effectively (tyres on different surfaces) or to even steer back onto the road. The recommended manoeuvre when a wheel drops down the shoulder is “brake gently”. That option won’t help in this case. A non intuitive manoeuver would be to go off even more to the left and avoid the shunt (Easy to say. I was able to think of this only in hindsight ).

I think in some states in the US there’s a rule that when you see a parked/disabled vehicle you must change lanes so that there’s at least one lane between your lane and the one with the parked vehicle. This rule is for good reason.
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Old 30th August 2021, 15:11   #33355
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Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
I too have habit of leaving sufficient gap with vehicle in front. But then the idiots behind me start honking. Why people can't understand, it won't make the travel time any lesser.
Honking will be least of my concerns! I too leave more than a car's length of gap even at low speeds and once an incident similar to this video happened and an idiot cabbie who was tailgating a bus in the right lane decided to turn sharply into my lane to avoid colliding with the bus and scratched my fender. Dont even ask me about all the illogical arguments that he had with me about why he was right and there was sufficient gap and it was my mistake to have hit him from behind

Last edited by Aditya : 30th August 2021 at 18:24. Reason: Extra smiley deleted
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Old 30th August 2021, 15:59   #33356
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Originally Posted by Sran View Post
You are leaving too big a gap between you and the front vehicle.
With regard to the gap between two vehicles, the two second rule is what we generally consider the thumb rule. According to that, a car moving at 30kmph need to keep around 17 metres gap which is more than 3 car lengths. If this is the case of a low steady 30kmph speed then I would say around 20m is the safe distance for irregular traffic speeds.

However, in our beautiful country we cannot keep more than 3m gap without someone trying to squeeze in between.

I have the habit of keeping 5-8 car lengths (especially after an accident a year ago) of distance between me and the vehicle ahead in a free flowing traffic and mostly keep about 1-2 car length gap in very slow moving traffic. Always, I have had people cut me off just to get into that safety gap and I have to back off again and again to create more gap. They are not even saving a second but unnecessarily creating chances for an accident.

IMHO, experienced drivers are those who leave a little more than sufficient gap between their vehicle and the one in front. Public road is not a race track where you can draft and also not everyone has the reflexes of a race car driver.

As for anybody giving me gyaan about leaving too much gap, nowadays I plainly ignore them with a small smile, be it a friend or family member. I'll drive the way I'm comfortable with.

Last edited by BLACNWYTE : 30th August 2021 at 16:21.
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Old 30th August 2021, 17:05   #33357
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Originally Posted by tazmaan View Post
...
Perfect example on how not to tailgate even at low speeds....
Credit to you for leaving enough gap in front. Takes an enormous amount of patience in our 'see gap, fill gap' traffic.

For the 'Oh but someone else will barge in if you leave space!' crowd, well the argy-bargy types rarely care if there's enough space to pull their stunts. If someone else barges in, you let them, and back off a little more to recreate a safe gap. It's not like you'll be stuck in the same spot forever while the world passes you by. You're probably sacrificing a handful of car lengths of space per commute, and barely making any noticeable difference to commute time.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 30th August 2021 at 17:10.
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Old 30th August 2021, 20:18   #33358
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Slow driving impedes traffic. Blocking other drivers can lead to an accident, more weaving in and out of traffic. If anyone drives slower than the minimum speed they can halt the traffic flow and create a dangerous condition. Even if there is no minimum speed limit, those driving too slow can be as dangerous as those who drive too fast. Many people attest to western laws as being the standard, there are several states in usa which fine drivers driving slow more than the 85th percentile of the speed limit with jail and fines both, also in UK. A driver who insists on moving along well below the speed limit may incite other drivers to overtake them, particularly if the driver is at the head of traffic on a two-lane road. While only the passing motorist might be blamed if a collision results from this action, the slow motorist has certainly played a part in the accident.

According to the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) Methods and Practices for Setting Speed Limits, the occurrence of a large number of crashes involving turning maneuver partly explains the increased risk for motorists traveling slower than average and confirms the importance of safety programs involving turn lanes, access control, grade separation, and other measures to reduce conflicts resulting from large differences in travel speeds.

3 Dangers of Driving Too Slow
The dangers of driving too slowly aren’t as obvious as the risks of speeding but they do exist. Driving much slower than the posted speed limit or driving too slowly in the passing lane can cause dangerous situations on the roadways.

1. Impeding Traffic
Driving slower than the posted speed limit when conditions are normal can impact the flow of traffic and even block lanes. Additionally, if a driver drives slowly in the right lane, passing it can negatively impact the ability of other vehicles to move smoothly. It’s recommended that slower moving traffic move to the left lane to allow vehicles to pass on the right.

2. Leading Other Drivers to Make Quick Adjustments
Speed limits are posted for a reason. It keeps the traffic moving at a predicted speed. When a vehicle is traveling well under the speed limit, other drivers on the road must make unexpected adjustments. These changes can lead to dangerous actions — stopping or slowing suddenly, abruptly changing lanes or passing on the left side instead of in the passing lane.

3. Increasing the Risk for Road Rage
Road rage is never the appropriate response to any situation on the road but a driver driving slowly in a passing lane is a common annoyance on the road and can quickly drain the patience of fellow drivers.

Driving too slowly can make other drivers around you constantly brake and speed up. It can be frustrating for other drivers, cause confusion and could lead to an accident. Forcing other drivers to adapt to the slower speed could force the other drivers to possibly pass on the left side (if slow driver is impeding the center or right lane). Slow drivers can affect how others react to situations. Ex: waiting behind a slow driver to make a turn, that driver takes too long and then you must react different and possibly make an unsafe judgement call. Other drivers may tailgate the slow driver, to “push” them along. When drivers don’t keep up with the prevailing road conditions, they become a danger to others. Many studies have produced data that show slow drivers pose a significant risk on the roads, simply because they are more likely to be overtaken, and tempt other road users into risky maneuvers.

The tendency to pass other drivers is consistent with personal attitudes of drivers. More than half (53%) of drivers agree at least somewhat that they often get impatient with slow drivers. U-curve study of USA found the both the faster driver and the slower driver had a higher risk of being involved in an accident. https://ntlrepository.blob.core.wind...docs/speed.htm
The occurrence of a large number of crashes involving turning maneuver partly explains the increased risk for motorists traveling slower than average and confirms the importance of safety programs involving turn lanes, access control, grade separation, and other measures to reduce conflicts resulting from large differences in travel speeds.

According to Penn state https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa15/2015/...-faster-safer/ The main problem on roads that causes accidents is the differences in speed, rather than speed itself. While some people are going faster than other, some go slower which causes the traffic to flow unevenly. If the speeds limits are raised to comply with the actual travel speeds, the roads become safer, because the traffic now flows more evenly and people start going to the same speeds. This actually shows that drivers are not affected by the speed limits that much, but rather slow drivers. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Says that only 30% of the accidents that are fatal are accidents in which the driver was speeding. This does not mean that the speeding actually is the cause of the accident. A study conducted by the Florida Department of Transportation says that accidents that were caused by speeding is actually 2.2%. This shows that if people drive faster all together it is actually safer than driving slow.

USA Congress ruled that states were free to create their own speed limits. 31 states immediately raised their speed limits to more than 70 mph. 29 of these states had an immediate rate of decline for deaths and injuries related to car accidents.(I am not saying that anyone should drive fast, I don't drive above 100 km/h under any circumstance).

There is this excellent thread on this forum where members discuss the cons of driving at slow speeds. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...vers-rise.html (UK: Accidents caused by slow drivers on the rise)

We strive to drive safe and be better at it, this also includes not to perturbate others by over speeding or being a Sunday driver.
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Old 30th August 2021, 20:18   #33359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srvm View Post
I was paying attention to the way you left enough gap between your car and the Red Creta ahead. Well done .
Absolutely agree.
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Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
Seems like, for some reason, the Ritz accelerated
True. Maybe it is just that he expected the guy in front to keep moving.
My technique in stop-start traffic is to let the person move on forward a little distance first. Why do others get impatient with this? It doesn't take a high-performance car to catch up, and saves unwanted bumps.

Mantra: That the person in front has started moving does not mean he will keep moving
Quote:
I too have habit of leaving sufficient gap with vehicle in front.
In slow-moving traffic, me too. Absolutely agree,
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Originally Posted by Sran View Post
You are leaving too big a gap between you and the front vehicle. Not a good way to drive.
Absolutely disagree. And nobody made anyone think anything. The other guy was responsible for his own mistake.
Quote:
Not everyone who honks is an idiot. Slow drivers cause more minor accidents than speedy ones. The gap between the two vehicles is too big, you can see the gap is more than a full length of a bus. This is the sign of a novice driver not that I am implying tamzmaan is one but it makes experienced drivers uneasy.
You are just so wrong about this. Honking is going to annoy the person in front. Do they imagine that it is going to move the hundred cars in front? But I learnt to live with it by reasoning, "OK, he's not honking at me, he's honking at the world."

No, the ten-foot gap is not going to make any difference to anybody's progress. And nor is my refusal to move in six-inch increments, if that is what the person in front is doing. I'll wait until he's done that a few times, and move a few feet.

If I am driving slowly on the open road, and someone wants to faster, they are welcome to honk: unless they are bullying me on my tail, I will simply be polite and let them past. The guys who just fight to get ahead, one car at a time, in heavy traffic, I ignore. And anyone who thinks the gap in front of me is too big can mind their own business.

The only exception to this is when traffic needs to bunch up to clear a junction, or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
Sorry, I may not have been clear when I made my previous rant. I too understand that if I take a nap while the vehicle in front of me moves few tens of meters, it's going to make people behind me nervous / worried for my physical and mental health.
I love the way you put that!
Quote:
However, if I am leaving gap of one vehicle (my vehicle) give or take a couple of feet, that should be allowed by the 'experienced drivers'. Though by law (on paper), if I (my vehicle) kiss the rear-end of someone (vehicle), its my fault. So, maintaining 'sufficient' gap is necessary.
Absolutely right.
Quote:
May be I should put up a poster on rear of my vehicle "Please be patient, I too am an experienced driver and surely not planning to sleep in current spot". Hopefully that might ease some nerves.
I feel like putting one which says, I'm in front of you. It's not personal. If it wasn't me it would be someone else. Live with it!
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Originally Posted by prajwalmr62 View Post
Sometimes when I'm driving in bumper to bumper traffic, I wait for couple of seconds to move, because I get existential crisis as the car in-front of me is going to stop couple of inches from its initial position. So sometimes, I also create equivalent spacing.
"That the person in front has started moving does not mean he will keep moving." Absolutely.
Quote:
you have these bikers zig-zaging in-between cars.
If there is space for bikers to get through, rather than be stuck in, the jam, I'm all for it. I'd rather leave a little extra space, rather than risk a scratch.

I do wonder, though, at the amount of work they sometime put into this zigging and zagging. Unless the traffic is long-term stationary, surely it isn't worth really worth it? I'm not a biker, I don't know. But I am lazy, and I wouldn't do all that twisty-turning stuff!
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Old 30th August 2021, 21:04   #33360
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Originally Posted by Sran View Post
Slow driving impedes traffic. Blocking other drivers can lead to an accident, more weaving in and out of traffic. If anyone drives slower than the minimum speed they can halt the traffic flow and create a dangerous condition.
You're debating against driving slow on emptier roads. Whereas the situation here is about tailgating another vehicle in dense+slowmoving traffic, which is really poor practice. They are not the same.
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