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Old 8th August 2022, 09:13   #35896
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcentrk View Post
The guys who lost their life is a acquaintance of mine and friends of my brother. A close friend of my brother go for a ride once with them and he said he consistently maintained 120 in his Elite i20 pre-facelift in the same route. And that was the last he took a ride with him, because he was scared for his life and when he explained it to us after the ride, he was still panicking. Even in the residential roads, he drives between 60-80. Also, he never ever wears seat belt.

Not sure 150, but 120 would have been my guess.
Thank you for sharing this. I understand what you mean.

You can call it an occupational hazard on my part, but I am hardwired to give minimal importance to past driving behavior and victim/witness statements when determining crash parameters. I can only look at evidence in front of me. I may very well be wrong, but I don't think the impact was above 100kph (may even be lower). I am also considering another post here that mentions that one of the occupants survived. I don't see anyone surviving in a car that has hit a bus head-on above 120 kph. The deceleration of such an impact would be enough to cause internal hemorrhage even in belted occupants.
However, again, this is just a guesstimate as I have not seen the vehicle or the scene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
Underride accident with a bus is not 'standard'.

I haven't seen cars getting under the bus in a head on collision. They do it when the accident is on the rear end of the heavy vehicle.

Also, the depth of the damage to the bus clearly shows that it was caused by the front tyre moving back. This maybe the reason I think that the bus was also at high speed (of course it was a highway and the bus wasn't stationary).

The car's driver seat is upright and intact, if the car went to such a distance under the bus, the full left side of the car would be reduced to 200 odd mms.

See this similar video below. This maybe what happened in this case.
I guess I didn't explain myself properly. By standard I meant that the damage pattern on the car is of a typical underride impact. I am not sure why you are saying that head-on underrides with buses are not possible. The video you have shared is of an underride.

The bus axle moving back could also have been after the dislodging of the axle. Unlike cars, these vehicles don't have any body/floor to restrict axle movement once it's dislodged. My guess is that the car went underride upto the axle and broke it. The axle and the bus' forward momentum did the damage to the bus' undercarriage.
There is evidence on the car's roof to indicate an underride. But, it's hard to tell the extent considering the roof was cut open for extrication. Also, a narrow overlap can miss the seat.
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Old 8th August 2022, 09:26   #35897
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by knightfurry View Post
I owned a diesel Ritz & I get what you are saying. 150-160 kmph was very easy to achieve.
The car met with two major accidents in 7 years & 1.5L kms, no injuries at all to the occupants.
The XUV accident looks like a headon collision. I have seen lot of video & reels where people are experimenting with its ADAS or doing silly speeds even on 4 lane state highways. This looks like one more experiment gone wrong. Many idiots in this are questioning the GNCAP ratings. https://twitter.com/rushlane/status/...tz1X_lps1LEeKg
Do they expect 5 start ratted cars to cut through anything & everything thrown at it?!
I did not mean you, brother

I have also driven a Ritz, and the light weight coupled with the 1.3 diesel before they neutered it in the new swifts is a potent combination. That lag and then the subsequent pull when in the turbo zone is addictive.
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:02   #35898
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by GeeTee TSI View Post
I have been trying to imagine how the engine got thrown out, one would expect the impact to push the engine through the firewall and into the cabin. Did it get pushed right through and out through the rear ?!

This gruesome accident goes to show that impact conditions in real world can be far removed from simulated crash tests.
Engines & gearboxes are designed to be collapsible and drop down in the event of an accident to prevent exactly what you described (going through the firewall and injuring passengers) and this is exactly what has happened here. Given the speed at which this accident happened, it appears to have been thrown out.
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:04   #35899
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Fellow forum members, we need to take some time and understand basic concepts before making allegations, assumptions and passing judgements.
The safety ratings are given at speeds of 40mph, 64 kmph because the assumed vehicle speed is 70mph (112kmph), which is legal highway limits in most countries. The assumption being that the driver has tried to slow down from 70mph and collided at 40mph, the 5 star car will save him from death or major injuries. These tests are conducted on dry tarmac settings and not on wet or slippery conditions.
If a driver is belting along a road at 150kmph on a road which has a designed safety speed of 100kmph, there is no way any vehicle will be able to protect him. He is outside the design limits (both the car and the road). Please note: the best designed roads in India have a design speed limit of 120kmph, so the speed limit is 100kmph for passenger cars. I don't know from where moron drivers decide to cruise at 140/160kmph? It's sheer lack of education which kills them.
The other area which points to a lack of education is understanding of average speed. To mantain an average speed of 90kmph on your journey, you should cruise at 100/110kmph (well within posted limits). Trying to cruise at 150kmph and braking every 5 minutes will only cause fatigue and irritation, your average speed will still remain lower.

Last edited by apachelongbow : 8th August 2022 at 10:07.
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:25   #35900
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Captured this accident with my car dashcam on Saturday. The red Ford was being driven at some what high speeds in the rains and ended up hitting a divider after getting aquaplaned. The rest is in the video.

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Old 8th August 2022, 10:26   #35901
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Well Said. It is neither the vehicle nor the system which is at fault. There is no cure yet for stupid drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopi_rm View Post
I am appalled that some of the learned forum members are trying to bash NCAP rating and some are trying to bash Tata/Mahindra without knowing the actual ground report about the accident scenario (speed & direction of collision, impact on both vehicles, other obstacles on the road when collision happened, road condition, etc.). GNCAP test the vehicles only in a defined set of crash scenarios to asses the vehicle's safety with same set of reference for all the vehicles. It does not mean that a vehicle with 5 star rating would protect it's occupants in any kind of crash scenario.
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:31   #35902
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Though pointed out umpteen times earlier, can't stress this enough that crash safety is designed with restrained passengers. I am very cynical when it comes to people's seatbelt habits. Any rear seat passengers would most likely not wear seatbelts and third row passengers would not even know there are seatbelts. I have failed to convince many a family member myself

The unrestrained passengers could have injured belted (presumably) passengers in the front as well, whilst sustaining injuries themselves
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:43   #35903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normaltusker View Post
Captured this accident with my car dashcam on Saturday. The red Ford was being driven at some what high speeds in the rains and ended up hitting a divider after getting aquaplaned. The rest is in the video.

https://Youtu.be/5b7U_ZrU6dE
I recently did a Mumbai Goa round trip, an aquaplaning was one of my biggest worries. Thankfully it did not rain a lot and I stuck to the middle lane with speeds in check.
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:45   #35904
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venkatesh View Post
Mahindra XUV700 head on collision with a private bus. Accident near Dharapuram, Tirupur in Tamil Nadu.
Most rudimentary rule broken. Overspeeding.
On Indian roads, national and state highways included, anything above 120kmph is very risky. But the cars and suvs which are launched come with powerful engines. So, indian drivers, high on adrenaline and God knows what, just cannot handle their vehicles at such high speeds.

Car manufacturers need to cap the maximum speed on their engines. No other way. Can't leave it to the conscience and skills of the average Indian driver.

Reduce the speed, and the number of fatalities on Indian roads automatically reduce.

Speed thrills, but it kills.

Last edited by Turbanator : 8th August 2022 at 22:25. Reason: Please quote only relevant portion while replying. Thanks
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:48   #35905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick5490 View Post
I recently did a Mumbai Goa round trip, an aquaplaning was one of my biggest worries. Thankfully it did not rain a lot and I stuck to the middle lane with speeds in check.
This was exactly my worry too and it kept raining all the way until Mumbai from Bangalore. That was the reason I was mostly sticking to the middle lane with the speeds well within 100 KPH. I did end up getting super frustrated because I had very less visibility throughout.
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Old 8th August 2022, 12:17   #35906
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Originally Posted by Sran View Post
In your last few posts in thread you have been speaking as if you are an authority on manufacturing prcess but you are not backing it with proof. Do you have any info about some metalurgical shenanigan? Do you offer any proof about design changes from blueprint to factory production? You claim to have worked with many top OEM's but you are yet to share any privileged info, please don't put out word salads.

Till then everything you are saying is merely a conspiracy and I am all for conspiracy but you got to back it up with some documentation. Remember we have no way of knowing what is going on behind the back unless some whistleblower comes forward but you seem to have some information which is not out in public domain, do share it and make it known else it will across as some dirt being thrown due to malice. And please, trust me bro will not work out.

If not I will urge mods to delete your posts for unfounded claims to malign the companies and this forum.
I can understand you questioning some unsubstantiated post but mentioning whistleblower is really too much. How many whistleblowers India had so far or India does no wrong. In a country where even key witnesses have to change their stance to save themselves, such expectation are just blind faith not a reasoned argument.

Last edited by fawad0222 : 8th August 2022 at 12:19.
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Old 8th August 2022, 12:24   #35907
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Default Re: Pics: Accidents in India

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Originally Posted by pixantz View Post
No point in blaming either the XUV people or the bus driver because we do not know any detail about who or what caused this.
=======
Looks like the Speed gets uncontrolled and keeps increasing or gets locked which leaves this result. Too many examples in too less time.
ADAS hs its limitations. Here in US, I have rented Chrsyler Pacifica with ADAS, but relying on it alone to drive is a stupid idea.

It does not work well when you overtake a vehicle and in congested traffic conditiions. My 2 cents
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Old 8th August 2022, 12:35   #35908
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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
I was thinking how this accident happened. The car under the bus theory also came up, but this seems not to be the case.
I could relate to this from my own accident which was recorded in my dashcam when my Storme rear ended a truck a few months back. The rear left corner of the truck hit and sliced A-pillar, it acted as a pivot and the bonnet was pushed under the truck at an angle, and rebounded after hitting the truck's tire and stepney. My speed would have been around 100 kmph (I don't drive at speed higher than 100-110 on highways), and truck might have been doing about 50 kmph. So speed of impact was around 50 kmph, Storme was totaled and my family survived with some injuries to me.

It looks like the XUV hit the bus head-on on driver's side in an overlapped manner. The speed of impact would be much higher in head-on collision (say 100 + 50 = 150 kmph for a reference). After hitting the bus chassis with A-pillar on driver side, the XUV might have turned at about 90 degrees into the bus. The chassis of bus might have sliced A-pillar on passenger side with engine bag completely smashed. The white paint of the XUV might have got onto the bus as XUV was dragged in direction of the bus, and probably pushed off later XUV turning 180 degrees and finally away from the bus. The engine might have got knocked off when XUV was about 90 degrees to the bus.

Last edited by Turbanator : 8th August 2022 at 22:25. Reason: Trimmed quoted post.
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Old 8th August 2022, 13:08   #35909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeTee TSI View Post
I have failed to convince many a family member myself
If the rear passengers are not wearing seat belts, despite my repeated requests, I will not go beyond 60 or 70 kph and will be double alert.

Somehow, my kid got used to sitting in the child seat and always wears seat belt. It's easy to build logic in kids minds as they are logic driven without bias.

It's difficult to convince the adults, as they had traveled in many cars and never wore belt and they claim, nothing happened till now.
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Old 8th August 2022, 13:35   #35910
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Originally Posted by autobahnjpr View Post
Well Said. It is neither the vehicle nor the system which is at fault. There is no cure yet for stupid drivers.
There is actually - it is a word called accountablity. With license and Aadhaar and mobile linking, etc. it now should be easy enough to have vehicle insurance based on the driver and fault based like in most countries. A driver's bad record will automatically result in higher premiums (similar to mediclaim), both for own damage as well as liability. Especially when the driver at fault has to bear cost of all damage.

Using extension modules to Vahan.com I feel it can be implemented for both vehicles and drivers.

The effects will not be seen overnight but I feel in a matter of a few years one will see a sea change in our accident statistics.
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