[poised2drive]

Originally Posted by bordeaux

But what does age has to do with driving a BMW or any sports car as long as the it's the legal driving age? A 50 year old who has never driven a 300+ BHP car will be equally bad or even worse! By your logic, all these kids shouldn't be allowed to drive Formula 1 cars.

Actually, the age is the X- factor.

That is the reason why Auto Insurance Costs More for Young Drivers
https://www.autoinsurance.org/6-reas...ce-costs-more/


The part of the brain that controls most of the cognitive functions and inhibits impulses is the PFC.

The PFC - Prefrontal Cortex plays central role in cognitive control functions, and dopamine in the PFC modulates cognitive control, thereby influencing attention, impulse inhibition, prospective memory, and cognitive flexibility.

All crucial factors that control the Driving are attained after 25.

Now one can argue that they know someone who can drive perfectly and they are just 18 or so. But those anecdotes need not be taken seriously.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...in%20functions.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...%20flexibility.

The PFC attains its complete maturation at 25 years which is why the general tendency for people to take risks starts to decrease at about after 25.

more reading on the topic that can shed some light
https://www.businessinsider.in/scien...w/61554120.cms

It could sound exaggeration but giving a 200 or 300 + BHP to young adults is akin to signing on their death note

[bordeaux]

Originally Posted by Akshay6988

The major difference between Formula 1 drivers and average person driving fast cars is that, f1 drivers are used to fast cars way earlier in their life. They know the capabilities of the car, it's dynamics, it's brakes and they don't do the racing on public roads ! They've dedicated, closed race tracks with proper safety measures in place - safety barriers, run off areas, gravel traps, racing helmets, harness to name a few.

Besides formula 1 cars are way way safer and stronger than your mass market 5 star GNCAP crash rated cars. Your comparison doesn't make any sense here mate ! Thad is right about age factor. I was 20 something once and I've done my share of speeding albeit on a bike. But now that I've gotten a car and aged as well (28, not much btw ) I understand the dangers on the roads, I understand what and how much my car as well as I can handle. This maturity comes with experience and age. No offense to you but just stating the facts here.

No offense taken at all. But generalizations and prejudices like these (not supported by any data) are the root cause of very many social problems we have.

• All young drivers are idiots
• Women don't know how to drive
• All diesel cars older than 10 year cause more pollution than new diesel cars irrespective of how they are maintained

And then we blame politicians and judiciary for all the blanket bans and call them names. They are people just like us with their own prejudices.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by bordeaux

But what does age has to do with driving a BMW or any sports car as long as the it's the legal driving age? A 50 year old who has never driven a 300+ BHP car will be equally bad or even worse!

I am 70. I have several decades of driving experience. The only difference between me and a 20-yr-old, approaching a 300BHP car is that it is more likely that I will not pretend I can do it just because. My challenge, if you give me a 300BHP car would be to drive it like a 120BHP car. That is, 20% more powerful than I am used to, not 300%! At first.

When generalising, there are always exceptions. But, in the early years of one's life there is an unavoidable cap on the amount of experience. That's all.

By your logic, all these kids shouldn't be allowed to drive Formula 1 cars.

Where is the logic in that? Nobody gets to drive F1 cars without a great deal of training and relevant experience.

The logic is that someone can be a surgeon in their 20s, but picking up a scalpel doesn't make anyone a surgeon

<crossposted>

Originally Posted by bordeaux

No offense taken at all. But generalizations and prejudices like these (not supported by any data)

There is plenty of data. Have you ever lived in a country where insurance premiums are based on the driver as well the car? Ask those insurance companies why they charge so much to insure young drivers. The answer will be: data. That is what underwriters and actuaries study.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by bordeaux

But what does age has to do with driving a BMW or any sports car as long as the it's the legal driving age?

A lot of things! I used to do wheelies on my Dad's Vijay Super scooter when I was in Class X. Later on, super crazy speeds on Maruti 800 And, as recently as 2004, had a crash in Corolla doing at unmentionable speeds. Repairs were more than 7 Lac ( Corolla at the time of launch even didn't have ABS, and I was racing with a guy in Skoda)

50 year old who has never driven a 300+ BHP car will be equally bad or even worse

Now, I will hardly go over the speed limits even with some of the fast cars with me. The problem in India is that High -Speed driving challans are not adequately enforced. We pay fines or monies and get over it quickly. It's high time when DL has to be suspended beyond a particular speed, and in case of DUI, cars are confiscated then and there.

My son was found driving a Wrangler at over 160 Kmph, in Canada, in grade 12. A few Kms more and his car would have been taken, maybe looking at his past driving record, the officer let him go with the vehicle. He wanted to take the easy route of hiring agents who would contest the ticket and get the challan settled by paying a fine, but I wanted him to face the consequences. The judge ordered him to pay a fine, and his DL was suspended for a month. On his request and given the cold weather (commuting to school, snow), he reduced the suspension to a week, and the fine was partially offset with some hours doing community service. It's about 6 Years, and he has never got another speeding ticket. He doesn't go fast anymore. He may get challenged by error, but his brain is now programmed not to repeat that mistake. Such things come with experiences and age, I guess, but here, most such children have the means not to face the legal consequences, so they never change until something hits them, and they learn (like in my own case)

[AnAvgJoe]

While I, in no way condone reckless driving or unsafe passenger behaviour inside the car, I would like to give voice to another perspective. After every accident, the driver of the vehicle is blamed for overspeeding and reckless driving (that is not always the case). In assuming and presuming and passing premature judgement, we are certainly doing the victims an injustice.

A few thoughts, randomly strewn together..

1) As regards people or cattle crossing the highway at any and all points, that is a safety hazard that is independent of the style of driving, unless of course, one wishes to travel at about 30kph only. Legal highway speeds are at 80-120Kph, depending on the type of road. People who cross highways willy-nilly must be fined, and if cattle, must be confiscated (they're usually domestic cattle let to wander the roads for food, a cheaper alternative than paying for feed).
That said, the govt. must provide barricades to prevent this crossing, while also providing overpasses or underpasses for the pedestrians/animals and service roads for local vehicles.

2) Speed limits, both maximum and Minimum, must be strictly enforced. Having a tractor (just an example) that is doing just 30kph on an highway or worse a bullock cart (I've seen them on the expressway), cutting across lanes is a disaster waiting to happen.

3) The companies that are responsible for maintenance of the roads (read as those collecting the 'TOLL'), must be liable for damages sustained to the vehicle or persons, that occur as a result of potholes or the like (A young man from my town died after his bike hit a huge pothole at night while on the highway).

[manjubp]

Originally Posted by Tanmay_868

Coincidentally, few months earlier people involved in the X4 accident that happened in the Spiti Valley were also from this family only (first cousins).
The family is in complete shock.
Also because Bharat’s dad too died died a month ago due to cardiac arrest.

It is very unfortunate for a family to loose someone so young and multiple members in such quick sucession.

What pains is that, the younger generation not realising the responsibility, especially after death of his father and few months earlier a fatal accident in close family.

When the person is not matured enough to understand the responsiblity, then it is deadly to handover the steering wheel, irrespective of car.

In this case, the BMW was travelling at 200KMPH(if I read correctly), what on the earth the driver was thinking...

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by Samarth 619

But, my honest question to knowledgable Tbhpians:- Is a BMW of today the same quality as those of yesteryears which made headlines? Based not on this accident, but on other observations around, could you guys comment?

It’s not about BMW or any other brand’s car. Speed is a killer always, no matter the car. At 200kmph any car will become unrecognisable!

Speed kills, period.


With coding you can remove those irritating 80/120kmph bongs, even I am tempted to code them out in my car, but I wouldn’t dare do it now because they have been put in place for a reason.

Out of the only 6-7 Mineral White M340i’s in India, this was the first to be sold in India, a massive loss indeed! The guy had done several modifications to the car as well, like added several Carbon Fibre add-ons and aftermarket alloys.

[PRATAYA]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Two accidents reported above, two high end big cars from the Top German Brands BMW and Mercedes which are known for sturdy and safe builds were involved in them, people traveling in them died.

Then hey people, stop feeling proud of those tinny Tatas, VWs, Skodas and please stop taking the driving for granted. Pay respect to the traffic rules, care for yourself and other road users.

I think that cars are not here to blame, the fault lies wholly with the driver and maybe the road conditions ( animal, human crossing) , oil spillage, loose rubble, wet roads.
I have seen people pressing down the accelerator in the smallest straights on city roads, surely expressways are no exception.

Now coming to the point on safe cars, sure many cars are rated 0 stars and some 5 stars. It is however important to remember the speeds at which they are rated for in bharatncap and globalncap.
Moreover testing is done in controlled situation and conditions do not factor human error, lapse of judgement or other factors at play.

Mercedes, Bmw, Audi sure makes great cars! But they are not foolproof. Considering the homegrown indian market tatas, volkswagen, skodas actually pioneer in terms of safety on a cost to safety ratio. You skipped maruti suzuki, Rebadged suzuki selling as toyotas, hyundai, Renault that actually skimp on safety. As some has told before fitting 6 airbags on a structurally unstable vehicle won't do much.

As in the case of accident of lt.cyrus mistry as per as i know he was not wearing any seatbelt while riding in the rear seat the other occupant who died also too was in rear seat without seatbelt. Both front passengers actually survived that speaks for the stability and intregity of the vehicle's passenger compartment. Failure to follow the adequate safety protocols and thus any injury, death due to an mishap dies not lie with the manufacturers.

As in the case of the kid's bmw its clearly t boned. Cars are much stronger in frontal impact against side impacts. From the above photos it seems that the impact point was the B pillar approximately. The only line of defenses are the side intrusion beam that is crash rated at around 62 kmh and the other line is the side airbags.
Assuming they worked correctly which they did because in the picture it can be seen that the b pillar is intact the metal surrounding it sheared off by the sheer force. No impact at ridiculous speeds (210 claimed by news agencies) could protect the occupants . Its almost 3.5 times the limit in which the cars are crash tested.

[MrA]

Originally Posted by losblancos_sr4

20-year-old Bharat, who was driving, died on the spot while his friend Gaurav was seriously injured, has been admitted to Kailash Hospital by the police for treatment.

That's just sad. Wondering if this was a RWD model and if both of them were wearing the seatbelts, very easy to lose control of those with DSC off, specially with about 380bhp. My decently modified AWD 435i (>420hp) was very easy to drive (at very high speeds, in corners) even with DSC off, even in snow it never felt uneasy. Switched to a ~180hp RWD car and spun it easily during the first couple of months (DSC off).
Nevertheless those BMWs are built very strong, looking at the state of the car it seems like a very big impact, possibly lost control at very high speed and rolled multiple times. Hopefully the passenger is alright.

[haskelerator]

Looking at all the comments about the crashed BMW M340i, I am tempted to ask what the consensus is here? Are we aspiring to buy these cars so that we can follow the speed limits and not cross 120 kmph? Maybe we should ban these cars in India and nothing with more than 150hp should be sold here. As my father would say, what are you going to do with all that hp on our bad and unsafe roads.

The real solution I think is to get everyone into the track days culture like abroad. More tracks where people can safely enjoy their high powered cars for fun. That is what we, as a forum, should aspire to make happen. All these Sunday drives in BMWs on public roads are equally unsafe and am sure speeds exceed 120 kmph

[revsperminute]

Originally Posted by haskelerator

Looking at all the comments about the crashed BMW M340i, I am tempted to ask what the consensus is here? Are we aspiring to buy these cars so that we can follow the speed limits and not cross 120 kmph? Maybe we should ban these cars in India and nothing with more than 150hp should be sold here. As my father would say, what are you going to do with all that hp on our bad and unsafe roads.

The real solution I think is to get everyone into the track days culture like abroad. More tracks where people can safely enjoy their high powered cars for fun. That is what we, as a forum, should aspire to make happen. All these Sunday drives in BMWs on public roads are equally unsafe and am sure speeds exceed 120 kmph

I don’t think driving fast is as big of an issue as it’s made out to be. The thing is we should respect our limits as well as the car’s. There’s a time and a place and a skill set that makes it okay to go fast without endangering the driver himself or fellow road users. I am 20 with access to fast cars. Doesn’t mean I do 200kmph all the time. I would be lying if I told you I have never gone above the speed limit but I never push my limits. Got a long life ahead of me, many goals to accomplish and responsibilities to fulfill. As long as we remember that and don’t let our lust for Speed overcome our conscience, one should be alright.

Track days still seem like a distant dream but oh what a dream it would be to live one day.

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

Luckily, this guy had what it takes to avoid a head on collision. No panic braking, kept the car under control and saved a few lives.

Good that he was driving in the middle lane. IMO if you cannot see the oncoming traffic or animals on your either side because of vegetation like high shrubs, bushes or trees then must avoid driving at high speeds because there is always such a risk lurking all the time.

[old_cayuse]

Originally Posted by chaitanyakrish

A father is bringing his kid to school on a motorcycle. Both of them are not wearing helmets and kid is sitting on petrol tank as usual.

Green arrow is my path and Yellow is bike and red circle is the pothole.

To avoid going through the pothole, he tried to turn immediately to right, instead of going to other lane.

One of the most basic and greatest failings of Indian drivers and riders is the total lack of training and understanding the need for them to remain on the left
side of the road (we follow the right hand drive system of road usage) even at turnings. Cutting corners, passing on the wrong side are common place and done with both lack of knowledge/training as well as impunity. Until such basics of road usage is not adhered to and enforced. Driving/Riding on Indian roads is going be a high risk to life and limb business.

[Everlearner]

Originally Posted by revsperminute

I don’t think driving fast is as big of an issue as it’s made out to be. The thing is we should respect our limits as well as the car’s. There’s a time and a place and a skill set that makes it okay to go fast without endangering the driver himself or fellow road users. I am 20 with access to fast cars. Doesn’t mean I do 200kmph all the time. I would be lying if I told you I have never gone above the speed limit but I never push my limits. Got a long life ahead of me, many goals to accomplish and responsibilities to fulfill. As long as we remember that and don’t let our lust for Speed overcome our conscience, one should be alright.

The bold part is the problem because everyone thinks he is a safe and skilled driver until something happens. It's a different case if you are professionally trained to handle high speed vehicles.

[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by Capri89

from my dashcam last month.

I think mindfulness and low speed prevented a direct hit.

watch from 0.40

Your speed was appropriate for the road conditions, and you did the right thing by braking. It is difficult to predict our response in a near-miss situation because there are many variables- traffic density, speed, road conditions etc. While braking may work when the speed is on the lower side, it may lead to a pile-up collision if the traffic flow is faster.
One method to be safe is to understand the car's braking capabilities and make sure that the driving speed is such that safe braking is possible within a short distance of 40-50 meters. This provides some time for the other vehicles to react.

Stray livestock are now a significant threat on Indian roads. Many owners leave the cattle out on public roads to reduce their feeding expenses. The cattle find the highway divider vegetation a good source of food and stray into the middle of the road. If there's an accident, the owner gets compensated, while the animal suffers. A video shared earlier on this thread showed an Ambulance crashing through a toll barrier because an animal was blocking a toll booth lane.