[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by mannubhai

I plead to disagree here a bit. Pedestrians and cyclists do not have the rights to break the rule.

Pedestrians need to use to zebra crossings and not cross as and when they wish. Many act like traffic police, and wish they can stop a vehicle with a hand gesture , just because he needs to cross. He can also wait. Yes , I agree there are not enough zebra crossings and stuff.

Cyclists, even the new gen, "cycle to office to make it a greener place" ones, believe that cyclists dont have to stop at signals. They underestimate the speed of the incoming vehicle, and many a times fall prey to this misjudgement. In bangalore its becoming more rampant now.

I agree, but they will be more at a loss in case of a hit and we would not like to live with guilt of hitting a cyclist/pedestrian even if it was his fault. Slowing down and giving way to them won't cost us anything!

[rohanjf]

What I had in mind is the situation that Binzone pointed out. During my daily 18 km commute to office, I do not get any signal. But I get to travel through inner roads, hence my comment.

Pedestrians and cyclists do not break signals. There hardly are any signals for pedestrians in Bangalore!! Moreover, the infrastructure does not help pedestrians and cyclists anyway.

[Soumyajit9]

Harsh but true - Every other human being takes the other for granted on streets, railway tracks etc.

Just a week back some filthy tractor crossed the railway track in front of an approaching train in Odisha and killed himself along with 2 others. Now the rest of the villagers start demanding money from railways.

Just in line with streets. The cyclists and pedestrians consider themselves in God Mode and jump around on streets. They give a darn about their lives even. So who is blamed if they die - motorists. Why why why ? I just hate this system of blaming the 'hitter'.
Train hits tractor - Blame the train.
Bike hits pedestrian - Blame the biker
Car hits bike - Blame the car
Bus hits car - Blame the bus/truck.

Sorry for the rant. Just too angry due to hot weather and the power cut at home :P

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by mannubhai

Cyclists, even the new gen, "cycle to office to make it a greener place" ones, believe that cyclists dont have to stop at signals. They underestimate the speed of the incoming vehicle, and many a times fall prey to this misjudgement. In bangalore its becoming more rampant now.

Absolutely right! The above observation is very true. I am seeing many cases of this kind every day on the roads and it is most irritating indeed.

[vvb8530]

Had an incident on the JVLR on saturday night with my ANHC. While getting off the Gandhinagar flyover from Eastern Expressway towards IIT, at the point where the flyover ends there is drain below, which is usually covered with a grill type cover. I was coming down the flyover at a decent speed however since this spot is filled with many surprises left behind by the BMC i am usually careful. Now since i drive this route regularly i was aware of the slight speed breakerish effect that the drainage cover creates nothing that i would really have to slow down for, however to my surprise i go over it and all of a sudden a loud thud and bang. I knew that i had ripped off the rubber. Parked the car on the side, since it was 1am and dark could not see much but could only see the front passenger tyre flat which i knew was cut and luckily no other visible damage to the alloy or any other part of the car. Walked back to the spot to find the drain cover grill at one particular place had come off from one side and fallen into the ditch.

Now this was really dangerous cause if a two wheeler had gone over it without noticing cause of the dark it would be a bad scene. I did not know what else to do as this is a spot where generally vehicles especially heavy vehicles come down at quite a speed so could not place anything there to warn people or try and pick up the grill. I tried calling the police control room but there was no response. I had no choice but to get back to my car and change the tyre with the spare as it was pretty late in the night with the girlfriend sitting in the car and the car parked at a lonely spot.

As i was changing the tyres i hear a now familiar thud and bang look up to see another ANHC slowly parking to a halt behind my car, it had met with the exact same fate as my car. Changed the trye asked the other guy if he needed help and drove back home.

The next day Sunday called up the police control room and informed them of the same, they said they will send someone to check. In the evening i was driving by the exact same spot and what do you know, there are 2 more drain covers missing and since there was sunlight people could see it and hence people were taking diversions into the first lane which still had the cover leading to a traffic jam, but guess what still no action taken by the authorities. Forget replacing the covers at least they could do something to warn people.

I did not call them again but am feeling very guilty and have been thinking what else could i have done to warn people. I just hope no one got injured.

[arun_josie]

Spotted this Polo near gottigere junction - BG Road. Looks like it went under a truck.

[Ketan]

Originally Posted by mannubhai

I plead to disagree here a bit. Pedestrians and cyclists do not have the rights to break the rule.

Pedestrians need to use to zebra crossings and not cross as and when they wish. Many act like traffic police, and wish they can stop a vehicle with a hand gesture , just because he needs to cross. He can also wait. Yes , I agree there are not enough zebra crossings and stuff.

Cyclists, even the new gen, "cycle to office to make it a greener place" ones, believe that cyclists dont have to stop at signals. They underestimate the speed of the incoming vehicle, and many a times fall prey to this misjudgement. In bangalore its becoming more rampant now.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Absolutely right! The above observation is very true. I am seeing many cases of this kind every day on the roads and it is most irritating indeed.

I agree, no one has a right to break the rule. Now if you can count the number of times you have crossed the road without a zebra crossing against the instances when you used the zebra crossing! Remember that you have to do this for about 5% or even less while you commute. The number will be a revelation!

I have been driving/riding for past 8 years and have seen many of those folks acting like a cop, showing hands to stop while crossing. You will look for Zebra crossings (which is hard to find in our country), wait for pedestrian signal to cross and try to follow all the rules for some time if you HAVE to leave your vehicles and start commuting by foot or using public transport everyday, but after a while, you will find yourself one among those showing hands to vehicles while crossing the roads.

I may not have experienced these situation enough compared to you guys but I have seen folks in the car in much more rush than the pedestrians and cyclists, that's my observation, you may have your own based on your perspectives.

My point is, we don't have enough infrastructure and awareness that can help all of us on roads. Motorists carry more responsibility compared to pedestrians and cyclists and they don't like others on the roads except oneself. We are heading in a wrong direction totally.
IMO, only thing we can do is set the example everyday and let others learn, if they don't, you can surely educate your kids and at least the next generation will see better tomorrow while government can make all their attempts to enforce the law (a difficult and less lasting effect) to make things better.

I remember one dialogue from a movie where everyone is angry with some or other thing, Soumyajit reminded me that dialogue its natural and obvious to be angry and is healthy too, but think about it when you calm down and think if you have to be in the place of those pedestrians and cyclist keeping the rest of the world same, not for a day or two, but for a few years at least!!

EDIT: pardon me if this is OT for this thread, but I believe it surely talks about our behavior on roads and may have an impact on road accident scenarios in future.

[sunishsamuel]

Read this news yesterday, about an accident in Jaipur, where the victims were left unattended for some time inside a tunnel. Few of my colleagues in office were forwarding and discussing about the same. The video inside the link is graphic, please watch it with caution.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-...1-1044792.aspx

If i have to go by what the police says, entry to this tunnel is restricted for two wheelers. That being the case, the victims did something illegal and now in trouble. In addition, with such a good resolution camera installed to monitor the traffic inside the tunnel, i'd have expected the Toll booth staff to be more quicker in reaching out to police and ambulance (maybe they tried, but emergency services were late)

[sdp1975]

Originally Posted by sunishsamuel

If i have to go by what the police says, entry to this tunnel is restricted for two wheelers. That being the case, the victims did something illegal and now in trouble.

What I find shocking about this incident is that nobody stopped to help - if the newspaper reports and the interview of the survivor is to be believed.

The girl that died was only 8 months old - her mother 26 years.

The survivor also says that there was a free passage for 2 wheelers and nobody stooped them from entering the tunnel.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Ketan

I agree, no one has a right to break the rule.
EDIT: pardon me if this is OT for this thread, but I believe it surely talks about our behavior on roads and may have an impact on road accident scenarios in future.

I walk quite often, sometimes with my Mum, Dad, Wife, Dogs etc.
No one in India cares about pedestrians, except very few people. This is one of the most pedestrian unfriendly countries in the world. No pavements, sidewalks or any other. Any available space is taken up by rubbish, construction debris, street hawkers, beggars, cyclists, motorbikes and what have you.

When I drive along a road and there are some people waiting to cross or even a cow or bull or dog trying to cross, I generally stop and wave them on. The cars and two wheelers and sometimes buses or lorries behind me honk repeatedly and angrily and I dont give two hoots for their impatience.

Generally people or dogs or bulls or cows in India do not use pedestrian crossings so actually it can be quite an interesting game - "will he wont he" type of guessing game!! The thing is in India, it is smarter to preserve one's sense of humour and accept these things as part of daily life here. If one gets all riled up all the time, then one will only drive one's self to an early grave...

This does not however, excuse the behaviour of cyclists and other vehicles too, breaking the red light and doing whatever they feel like...

[khoj]

This is not correct, there is no free passage. Ths tunnel was specifically made to segregate small traffic from large/faster four, multi wheeled vehicles. The earlier road through a populated area was witness to daily jams and accidents, it was a long pending need/demand by the locals to provide safe passage that saw this development.

HT delhi clearly reports that the man was behind another truck and proceeded to overtake it when he was hit by the 'killer' truck from behind. As experienced by many of us it seems to be a classic case of cutting in to the right hand lane without checking for traffic, not having enough speed to sync with the truck coming from behind and having absolutely no idea regarding the momentum the truck or any other vehicle for that matter might be having and zero realisation that it may not be able to accomodate a rapid de-acceleration on account of the sudden intrusion of the slower moving two wheeler . Result is a family destroyed by sheer ignorance and primary action(s) on part of the motorbike driver.

The only thing that I am not able to understand is the reason behind the delay in control room's passing on the message to police/ambulance etc.

Originally Posted by sdp1975

The survivor also says that there was a free passage for 2 wheelers and nobody stooped them from entering the tunnel.

As far as pedestrians crossing from designated zone or otherwise, as a matter of habit I slow down as soon as I see someone dithering on the side or the median and over the years I have made the following consistent observations.

1. The ditherer will always start to cross at the last possible moment

2. If it is a man he will dart across as if the World is coming to an end behind him and the odd bit is most of these guys will have a huge grin on their face as if they just won the 100mts olympic gold

3. If it is a woman she will go half way or at times even three fourths of the way and then dart right back to where ever it is that she started from.
There is a corollary to this
3.a. If the woman has her eyes on you as she runs across she will turn around for sure. If she is looking straight ahead then she will cross over.

4. The most dangerous ones are the leapers. They are to be found on divided four lane highways cutting across towns. Once they have decided to cross it is like Russian roulette and they will appear all of a sudden from either the side footpath or worse over the central median and before you even have a split second to react they are gone. Thankfully, mostly to the other side but in a few cases to the hospital too. Infact I have seen quite a few two wheelers take a tumble on account of the leapers as they try and avoid these individuals and lose balance in the process.

5. The pedestrians are now so accustomed to traffic not slowing down that if one does in order to let them cross, half the junta scowls as they walk across. At times I wonder if one is guilty of taking away the only bit of excitement out of their mundane routines or is it their pent up angst against the motorists at large that is coming to the fore.

[fordfreak]

Came across these 2 pictures of our Corolla while clearing out my laptop. Don't think I've posted them before. Accident happened about a year back or so. Indigo cut across an intersection without slowing to check for traffic and ended up hitting the front-right corner of our car. Car was being driven by the driver at the time of the incident, thankfully no injuries to anyone involved.

Car has since been repaired and still going strong at 90,000 kms. Estimate given by the Toyota dealer amounted to 1.50L approximately (claimed insurance on it). Had planned on selling it, but ended up keeping her as the spare car. Still enjoy driving this more than our Altis.

Cheers!

[srishiva]

Feel sad for the Jaipur incident. There are so much bad driving that is sort of becoming common and sometimes such incidents happen. There is a part played by our law enforcement in being lethargic.

[Ketan]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

When I drive along a road and there are some people waiting to cross or even a cow or bull or dog trying to cross, I generally stop and wave them on. The cars and two wheelers and sometimes buses or lorries behind me honk repeatedly and angrily and I dont give two hoots for their impatience.

Generally people or dogs or bulls or cows in India do not use pedestrian crossings so actually it can be quite an interesting game - "will he wont he" type of guessing game!! The thing is in India, it is smarter to preserve one's sense of humour and accept these things as part of daily life here. If one gets all riled up all the time, then one will only drive one's self to an early grave...

This does not however, excuse the behaviour of cyclists and other vehicles too, breaking the red light and doing whatever they feel like...

Good to see more details from your side Shankar sir.
Pardon me for my lack of knowledge but some part of your response was hard to understand on point you are trying to make, so I'm left to some assumptions here.
You may be walking with your family around the safe areas/gardens in your residential area, its different than walking to bus-stop everyday from home, get a bus, change the bus at another stop, walk to another stop take another to get to your final destination that may be another few mtrs/kms away from the bus stop.
I too walk with my family on regular basis inside the layout I live in, but I cant compare that with what we are talking about here. You rightly indicated that 'No one in India cares about pedestrians'

Coming to your point where you stop for others to cross the roads (I'm not getting in details whether its a cow or dog , but human lives, definitely got priority), It would be interesting to know where did you learn that from? Quite a few of us do that and I follow that most of the times. I have had lessons in the school about crossing roads only at Zebra crossings and a couple of more such but nothing more than that (our education system needs improvements too), I learnt it by looking at others who are following it strictly, mainly in the US and other countries. That changed a bit of my behavior, for sure. We can be an example in our own country to help others.
Mannubhai was talking about the modern cyclist, I have not seen a modern cyclist jumping the signals, but rather seen traditional cyclist (who is not cycling by choice) also waiting for signal to go green since the so called 'modern cyclist' waiting besides (Sony world signal), and seen many cyclists jumping that same signal a many times, but I'm just trying to look at that single example that can make a positive impact and we want to see more of them.

You said, 'generally people, dog, bulls, cows don't use pedestrian crossing'. I cant talk about animals, but if given enough opportunities, I'm sure humans will start using it.
"Will he or wont he" question comes only after you provide them enough pedestrian crossing, that question doesn't exist as of now in our country.

So, coming back to the original question, 'pedestrians and cyclist not honoring laws'. There is a reason why they don't, we don't have enough infrastructure, awareness and education that can lead to good behavior. But think about motorists (cars and bikes), they have all the power (vehicles), better infrastructure to ride their vehicles and I'm sure they are definitely highly aware and educated compared to a laborer whos forced to use cycle to work and still motorists breaks the laws and more! Difficult for me to justify. This is just my opinion, I wanted to clarify the single thing that pedestrians and cyclists is not the right area of focus (they have different needs at this time, the infrastructure), it has to be us motorists to improve the current state.

[engrohit]

Originally Posted by sunishsamuel

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-...1-1044792.aspx

If i have to go by what the police says, entry to this tunnel is restricted for two wheelers. That being the case, the victims did something illegal and now in trouble.

This also brings into focus the safety aspect of family of 4 riding on a two wheeler. This is the exact scene which prompted Ratan Tata to start the now costlier and not too very successful "One Lakh rupee Car" project.

While this is a scary & risky but it is a reality, for lower middle class families, which they can not run away from. But the first and foremost responsibility of saving one's life rests with the Individual himself or herself. This is like you are the FPR for your life.

We see this scene every day and also come across many callous riders taking wrong turns / jumping signals / weaving through traffic with their whole family.

Very difficult really to find a straight answer to all this, but sad and unfortunate to have happened to anyone.