[suresh_gs]

Originally Posted by silversteed

Baffles me every time I read such pieces of news - a witness who was one among these:
a) a passer-by on foot
b) travelling in a bus
c) somebody living closeby
d) someone that reached the spot/called the ambulance or cops
e) someone who managed to catch a glimpse of the speedo in the crashed car, often with the needle resting on the max marking (120+ in most cars)

can accurately tell you the speed at which the vehicle that met with an accident was travelling.

It's high time the media show some restraint on publishing figures like these.

I am not at all justifying speeding or driving rash. But, in cases where someone who was driving neat and within the limits gets hit by some moron driving in the wrong lane, or some bigshot's car jumps a signal and gets hit by a mangoman's vehicle that had the green, the media always rushes to a conclusion that the "rogue" vehicle (which one it is, is anyone's guess) was being driven at over 100kmph, 120kmph, 140kmph etc, based on the vehicle.

Well said Pramod. I am really baffled as to how anyone can say that the vehicle was being driven at 120 or 140 kmph. On the highways, it is difficult to say whether the vehicle was being driven rash. All that the eyewitness can quote is if the vehicle was being driven on the wrong side of the road.
May be the volvo also was being driven rash. But he was in the proper side of the road unlike the car.
I am not sure even if a passerby can say that the car driver dozed off at the wheels resulting in accident. Things happen in a jiffy.

RIP the departed souls

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by sinharishi

2 days old news:

5 killed in head-on collision near Tarapur.

This stretch of Tarapur-Vataman-Pipli is very hazardous. Not due to poor quality or design of roads, but due to relatively nice roads where people often over-speed. Currently some road widening work is going on, but still the surface is not bad at all.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ash-truck.html

In the case mentioned above, its again an overtaking gone wrong. The stretch from Tarapur to Vataman to Pipli is one which I frequent. Can confirm that cars like even Xylo, Scorpio which are fully loaded are driven over 120.

The accident you have mentioned was reported in local Gujarati daily, and it was evident the crash was high speed. It is also believed that Bus driver did initiate braking, but it was too late as the car was at high speed. One must avoid driving at night, as far as I have read, the guys in i10 had left for their destination at night. Why take so much stress ? Get a Cab or simply avoid. Usually, overnight buses ply on Vadodara-Rajkot route which are known to be reasonably good. The one involved in this accident seems to be one of them.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

This stretch of Tarapur-Vataman-Pipli is very hazardous. Not due to poor quality or design of roads, but due to relatively nice roads where people often over-speed. Currently some road widening work is going on, but still the surface is not bad at all.

I fully agree with you. I had taken this road as an alternate to skip Ahmedabad way back in 2011 and ever since that, I prefer taking the NE1 and NH8A towards Rajkot via Ahmedabad for the reasons you have mentioned.

Its a single carriageway road, wide enough to dangerously allow 3 vehicles to cross each other; in whichever permutation that is!

The road has a lot of truck traffic and it is obvious that on a single carriageway road, their speeds are slower as they cannot easily overtake other trucks ahead of them due to oncoming traffic. This situation over a longer stretch creates a train of such trucks often making overtaking by faster vehicles (cars and alike) a difficult task.

Unable to follow the traffic at snail's pace, the power on tap that is better than that lethargic truck ahead, power steering requiring no real power on your fists, many drivers will simply take risks and attempt overtaking maneuvers, and when they do that, they mostly end up doing at the wrong time when a heavy vehicle is pouncing on them from the other side and all your calculations go wrong!

And all these under darkness with just your headlights becomes a Lethal combination!!

Patience is the key on such roads, plus you need to maintain more than the usual gap from a vehicle ahead of you to be able to assess the gap required to finish that overtaking. I have seen morons tailing inches behind and keep peeping out (their cars) and getting back in at least 5 times before they finally overtake. Not to forget that these chaps have a craving to hit the brake pedal every 5 seconds just because they are too close to a vehicle ahead.

Single carriageway roads and driving on such roads needs more than just primary driving skills. Sadly, most of our roads have become 4 lane (which itself is a positive development and had reduced head on collisions) but if a driver is greeted with a single lane highway after that speed run on a superfast dual carriageway road, its then that the real test and failures begin.

This is the single reason (apart from a lot of misc traffic on this stretch with railway crossings) that I advise folks to take NE1 and proceed towards Rajkot even though the Tarapur road is 60kms shorter.

RIP, departed souls but whether the driver dozed off or it was a serious driver error is something that will remain a huge question!

[sinharishi]

Originally Posted by silversteed

Baffles me every time I read such pieces of news - a witness who was one among these:
a) a passer-by on foot
b) travelling in a bus
c) somebody living closeby
d) someone that reached the spot/called the ambulance or cops
e) someone who managed to catch a glimpse of the speedo in the crashed car, often with the needle resting on the max marking (120+ in most cars)

Or the witness could be the one who was overtaken by the i10 seconds before the crash.

Or the witness could be the one who was driving few meters behind the i10.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Its a single carriageway road, wide enough to dangerously allow 3 vehicles to cross each other; in whichever permutation that is!

This situation over a longer stretch creates a train of such trucks often making overtaking by faster vehicles (cars and alike) a difficult task.

Unable to follow the traffic at snail's pace, the power on tap that is better than that lethargic truck ahead, power steering requiring no real power on your fists

And all these under darkness with just your headlights becomes a Lethal combination!!

Patience is the key on such roads, plus you need to maintain more than the usual gap from a vehicle ahead of you to be able to assess the gap required to finish that overtaking.

Single carriageway roads and driving on such roads needs more than just primary driving skills. Sadly, most of our roads have become 4 lane (which itself is a positive development and had reduced head on collisions) but if a driver is greeted with a single lane highway after that speed run on a superfast dual carriageway road, its then that the real test and failures begin.

Parag,

You have hit the nail(s) on the head with your superb post.

Your final point on the single carriageways is a very very important point which many younger drivers (30 years and lower) should remember. I grew up in West Bengal where single carriageways were very much the norm (and still is even on many major routes!). The PATIENCE, SKILLS & ALERTNESS needed for such roads are much much higher than a dual carriageway; this is a fact which goes completely unnoticed by many younger urban/semi-rural drivers used to seeing 4 lane dual carriageways.

Would also like to add the effect of a fully loaded vehicles (during highway trips) as opposed to the routine daily usage involving driver-only or max single pax. The driving/handling dynamics of fully loaded cars especally those in the budget/medium segment (with extra skinny tyres) are VASTLY different during high speed runs as compared to the daily commute of 10km bumper-to-bumper!

Many a time, I have noticed drivers struggling to control their vehicles because they have ZERO idea of its dynamics at high spees and/or heavy braking. They simply have no baseline to compare with. In my opinion, many people have never even practiced full emergency braking their rides. Hence they have no idea at all.

The powerful turbo-diesels are also lethal in the hands of such drivers as they get into the turbo zone, accelerate to unsustainable speeds and find themselves out of their depth in both handling and braking. For example, the Swift LDi (i.e. no ABS plus skinny tyres plus fully loaded) is an especially lethal combination!

Just my 2 bits! No offence meant to anyone with my generalizations.

[rr_zen]

Originally Posted by sinharishi

2 days old news:

5 killed in head-on collision near Tarapur.

Holy cow ! The i10 has almost been swallowed by the bus. I wonder how someone has the audacity to drive a car like the i10 at such speeds and cause this terrible disaster. IMO, an overtaking maneuver gone terribly wrong ! I pity the passengers for losing their lives for no fault of theirs.

[BoneCollector]

Originally Posted by rr_zen

Holy cow ! The i10 has almost been swallowed by the bus. I wonder how someone has the audacity to drive a car like the i10 at such speeds and cause this terrible disaster. IMO, an overtaking maneuver gone terribly wrong ! I pity the passengers for losing their lives for no fault of theirs.

Please do not test the morons on road. They have the audacity to do things that one can't even imagine for movie script. These days when on road, all I see is that the likes of Scorpio/Bolero doing triple digits with overloaded crowd and doing maneuvers that I shudder thinking of. On highways, I generally do not cross or let my driver cross 80kmph in our WagonR. But most of the people driving have not even an iota of knowledge regarding the capabilities of their vehicle, especially
what it cannot do. My Scorpio/Bolero reference is not to offend owners here as I feel that members of TeamBHP are sane drivers. The speed factor can easily be understood if one is driving at 80kmph and the other vehicle overtakes and vanishes after some time.
The bus involved doesn't look like to be a Volvo as the windows are openable type. It looks more like a regular sleeper bus.

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Would also like to add the effect of a fully loaded vehicles (during highway trips) as opposed to the routine daily usage involving driver-only or max single pax. The driving/handling dynamics of fully loaded cars especally those in the budget/medium segment (with extra skinny tyres) are VASTLY different during high speed runs as compared to the daily commute of 10km bumper-to-bumper!

That's something hardly anyone takes account of!

For example, the Swift LDi (i.e. no ABS plus skinny tyres plus fully loaded) is an especially lethal combination!

An even deadlier combination - Ritz LDi/VDi - a wee bit lighter than the Swift, tall boy, skinny tyres, and a lot of power on tap.

Originally Posted by sinharishi

Or the witness could be the one who was overtaken by the i10 seconds before the crash.

Or the witness could be the one who was driving few meters behind the i10.

You have a point - undeniably. But my comment was with regards to the majority of the cases. Not specific to the one you posted

[aaggoswami]

Met with a small accident today morning while going to office. There is a curve in the road and unfortunately, at the curve there is a pothole for drainage.
A girl on Pleasuer/Activa ( basically a step-thru) tried to avoid that and had a very very minor brushup with my Wagon R's left bumper. This resulted into her fall in front of my car. She just changed lane without looking into RVM and my front wheels were ahead of her activa. But as if was a corner I slowed down and saw her coming into my lane and then braked. By that time, she had brushed up with my car. Damage to car = not even a single scratch.

Stopped the car, got down, and asked her if she was looking into her RVM or not. She told me its my fault, I told her that I am already in Right Most lane and she cut across me. Later on she said " You are not even asking somebody for any injury and then you are over reacting". Took her vehicle to side, parked on side stand and asked if she had any injury. With some disgust she said what severe injury " and was analyzing if she was hurt anywhere. A few moments later, she said " You can go ". Started my car and came to office.

[amit]

Originally Posted by sinharishi

As per witness car was over 120 Km/hr.

I have always found it really amazing how the eye witnesses specify the speed of accident cars with such accuracy. And that too by just looking at it! Do they have speed guns in their eyes or what? Hopefully, the cops don't take them seriously.

[sinharishi]

Originally Posted by amit

I have always found it really amazing how the eye witnesses specify the speed of accident cars with such accuracy. And that too by just looking at it! Do they have speed guns in their eyes or what? Hopefully, the cops don't take them seriously.

Quoting myself. The witness could have been in the following 2 situations.

Originally Posted by sinharishi

Or the witness could be the one who was overtaken by the i10 seconds before the crash.

Or the witness could be the one who was driving few meters behind the i10.

[ad3952n]

This Gray new gen Maruti Swift belongs to the brother of my close friend. My friend told me that his brother was doing 3 digit speed and at the same speed he took a turn due to which the car lost control and hit the divider resulting in massive mechanical damage. Even front of the car got damaged since it climbed the divider before coming to a halt. Though his brother is safe but the irresponsible driving and attitude threw light on the fact that the car's insurance also was over long back. Some pics that I clicked:









Thanks

[Gotham_City]

Received this picture from a friend on watsapp. Apparently, this i20 could not complete a seemingly simple turn on NH 8 at Manor after Virar (in the outskirts of Mumbai).

No further information on the accident.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by sinharishi

Quoting myself. The witness could have been in the following 2 situations.

Still, how can ANY EYE-witness reliably establish speeds either before or at impact?

I find most of such purported triple digit numbers fanciful and patently sloppy journalism.

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by amit

I have always found it really amazing how the eye witnesses specify the speed of accident cars with such accuracy...Do they have speed guns in their eyes or what? Hopefully, the cops don't take them seriously.

My dad met with an accident 2 years ago, when a drunkard who lost balance, veered from the right to the left side of the road, and fell on my dad's bike - all within a flash. The drunkard passed away on the spot. From among the many creative stuff recorded in the charge-sheet - "the rider, Mr.aaa was travelling at over xx km/h and extremely dangerously" - xx km/h was way over the limit, and it was recorded from one of the eye-witnesses. Reality was, he was riding very sedately at not more than 40, enjoying the cool breeze at the countryside. Now, you can decide whether the cops take such figures seriously or not. The case was closed about a month ago, after a "settlement" was reached.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Still, how can ANY EYE-witness reliably establish speeds either before or at impact?

Please take a peek at my post in the previous page. There are many people who feel that way