[aravind.anand]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Looks like all of the airbags deployed in such small looking crash, isn't that too much?

Might look small from this angle, but we don't know what it looks from the other side, or the rear right?
Even if there is no other impact, isn't it better to be safe, than sorry?

In other news, came across this article posted on Rushlane... Council claims that 3 lakh Maruti 800 cars have been involved in fatal accidents.

What is more shocking is that the concil claims that the BMW 3 Series is has poor performance in real life crash situations, where there are about 12 cases where the vehicle has split !

At a road safety conference in New Delhi, Dr. Soi said that unless car makers ensured in-built safety features, crashes are going to be fatal. He also pointed out the BMW 3 Series and Maruti 800 as examples of unsafe cars in India.

Commenting on the BMW 3 Series, the council member revealed that a crash test has been done and the 3 Series received an average rating for side impact protection. He went on to say that road accidents in India involving the luxury car model were analyzed and in 12 cases, the Beemer split into two under impact.

BMW reacted to the statements by saying that their Indian portfolio is consistent with its global portfolio when it comes to safety.

Could this have some importance, in the face of the Bajaj CEO losing life in a 3 Series?

http://www.rushlane.com/maruti-m800-...-12200472.html

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

Might look small from this angle, but we don't know what it looks from the other side, or the rear right?
Even if there is no other impact, isn't it better to be safe, than sorry?

Sorry, but I don't look at airbags as life savers. Reposting the link where pictures of both sides are posted, please look at them, rest of the car is intact: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post4013364

If airbags would have been life savers, the Bajaj executive and his wife shouldn't have died in the BMW crash.

Primarily Its the vehicle's structure, then its seatbelts which are life savers. Unnecessary deployment of airbags is rather harmful and may cause serious injuries, especially the children are at highest risk against airbags.

I am not impressed with such an aggressive airbag deployment in Innova Crysta. Apart from safety concerns, repairing the airbags in such large numbers turns out big economical hole in the pocket.


Can airbags kill you?

"Airbags exert a lot of force, so it is possible to be hurt by one. Sitting too close to a deploying airbag can result in burns and injuries. Using an airbag without a seatbelt or having something between you and the airbag (like a pet, a glass bottle or even a cell phone) can also result in serious injury. The people most at risk of death from airbag deployment are children and small adults, because their bodies can't take the force."

[samaspire]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Looks like all of the airbags deployed in such small looking crash, isn't that too much?

Those were my exact initial thoughts. Then I realised that even in such an impact, all the passengers would be thrown around - more so, if they are not belted up. So I guess they all got away without any injuries because the curtain airbags deployed.

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by samaspire

Those were my exact initial thoughts. Then I realised that even in such an impact, all the passengers would be thrown around - more so, if they are not belted up. So I guess they all got away without any injuries because the curtain airbags deployed.

One query, for the rear curtain air bags to deploy, should the rear passengers too be wearing a seat belt?

[manveet]

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

Could this have some importance, in the face of the Bajaj CEO losing life in a 3 Series?

Was that a 3 or a 5?

[shaktisarangi]

Originally Posted by manveet

Was that a 3 or a 5?

It was a BMW 320d. I am not so sure about the 3 series being declared unsafe as it meets 5 star euro NCAP norms. In this accident lack of seat belts is the problem.

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by samaspire

Those were my exact initial thoughts. Then I realised that even in such an impact, all the passengers would be thrown around - more so, if they are not belted up. So I guess they all got away without any injuries because the curtain airbags deployed.

If occupants are not belted (which is very likely in India, especially the rear seat occupants), then deployment of airbags can rather turn out fatal. The occupants should pay thanks to their stars that they are alive and airbags didn't cause any injuries to them. Circumstances indicate that this was really a low intensity crash where airbags 'malfunctioned', or maybe they are poorly implemented in the Crysta because ideally the airbags shouldn't even deploy if occupants are not wearing seatbelts.

An incident has happened with my cousin owning previous gen Innova where it collapsed with a cow on highway and the damage to the car was much severe than the above Crysta. But the airbags didn't deploy since my cousin and his co-passenger weren't wearing seatbelts . According to the service adviser, the airbags don't deploy in the Innova if seatbelts are not worn.

Flip side of the story is that airbags are not covered under insurance as per the SA, not even in zero dep insurance and would have caused big hole in the pocket of my cousin if they would have deployed during that crash.

Now think from economical angle, if the airbags are really not covered in the insurance then imagine the cost of replacing all of the airbags in this Crysta!

Vehicle safety is a very complicated and vast subject and majority of Indians are illiterate on this topic. And those who are exposed a little about the word 'safety' can say a word or two words like airbags, ABS on the name of safety, thats it. Sad to see the views of the the guy who posted this incident and pictures in his Facebook profile. He is said to be an insurance surveyor and has studied 'Automobile Technology' in Karnataka Polytechnic Institute according to his profile. Its really frustrating to know about level of 'technical' knowledge such guys have, and then spread false information knowingly or unknowingly which people seem to be believing without even thinking. Source to FB Post




Some studies:

"The rate of cervical spine fractures was 54 percent in drivers using an airbag only, compared to 42 percent for drivers using both an airbag and seatbelt. With adjustment for other factors, the relative risk of cervical spine fracture was 70 percent higher for drivers using an airbag without a seatbelt, compared to drivers using both protective devices. This was even greater than the 32 percent increase in cervical fracture risk for drivers using neither an airbag nor seatbelts.

Among passengers, the risk of cervical fracture plus spinal cord injury was nearly seven times higher for those using an airbag without seatbelts (compared to both protective devices)."

https://ohsonline.com/articles/2008/...jury-risk.aspx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLCWGcNpY94

[lambuhere1]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Flip side of the story is that airbags are not covered under insurance as per the SA, not even in zero dep insurance and would have caused big hole in the pocket of my cousin if they would have deployed during that crash.

I was under the impression that even airbags are covered under insurance. Isn't it ?

Can anyone please educate as to why it is NOT covered under insurance ?

[longhorn]

I guess 50% of the cost is covered. Cannot be zero. It doesn't make any sense at all, especially if you've got zero dep coverage.

[Divya Sharan]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

If occupants are not belted (which is very likely in India, especially the rear seat occupants), then deployment of airbags can rather turn out fatal.

So, should car manufacturers start developing non standard algorithms and solutions just because people of this country don't have common sense?

Originally Posted by lambuhere1

I was under the impression that even airbags are covered under insurance. Isn't it ?
Can anyone please educate as to why it is NOT covered under insurance ?

It is! As per Future Generali, 100% of the costs will be borne by them (except a mandatory fee of Rs 1000). I have zero dep insurance.

50% coverage is for comprehensive plans.

P.S - insurance honored only for airbag deployment in case of an accident, in case it is mechanical or due to some other fault, user pays the whole amount for repair.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by shaktisarangi

It was a BMW 320d. I am not so sure about the 3 series being declared unsafe as it meets 5 star euro NCAP norms. In this accident lack of seat belts is the problem.

5 star ENCAP rating is all dandy but one ought to go through the details to understand the threshold at which such ratings are provided and if the vehicle does not have a huge margin between the way it performed and the way it should have atleast performed, then you can be guaranteed that if the speeds increase even slightly, you are looking at very poor crash safety performance.

For example, I find it hilarious when people look at a car and then pass "expert analysis" from one picture that the car did its job well, occupants would not have been wearing seatbelts blah blah.

One picture of that 3 series is simply not enough to pass such judgement IMO.

Here are the details of the 2016 BMW 3 Series vs a 2013 Kizashi a car that received a similarly good NCAP rating, but performed flawlessly in the smaller test criteria as well, from IIHS website. The American Insurance Institute of Highway Safety conducts and displays far more thorough tests on crash safety. Here I shall highlight the differences:
Side Impact test - Both cars receive top marks however it is noted that injury to the driver's ribs are likely in the 3 series whereas no significant injury was recorded on the Kizashi.
Small Overlap Frontal Impact - The Bimmer scores 2 levels lower with lower interior intrusion of 31 cms compared to 15 cms in the Kizashi, and upper interior intrusion of 8cms compared to 6 cms in the Kizashi. The driver's foot was trapped between the brake pedal and toepan in the BMW, and the brake pedal had to be cut off, to free the foot. Injuries to both legs were deemed likely in the BMW which received a poor rating (lowest) for structure and safety cage in this department.

What I am trying to say, is that from a picture, one would think both cars performed equally well, perhaps one would even think that the BMW performed better due to preconceived notions and the fact that it has a longer bonnet (I myself was under that impression until I read an article that highlighted these details) BUT, the reality of things is very different. Our beloved German car even in its 2016 guise is far from as safe as a sedan made by a poky little Japanese manufacturer in 2010. Those who dare to validate their claims and knowledge will actually see the truth. In no way is this meant to be a comparison. Just highlighting the difference between what one perceives through a single picture, and what is actually recorded in terms of forces and intrusions by a crash test agency. An overall rating of good or 5 stars, is only for the Manufacturers. As consumers, we must be aware of the details before putting our faith in overall ratings.

That is why I always try to refrain from passing judgments on a car involved in a crash. If the occupants survived, they are very lucky. That's it. It is very rarely a case that the car performs admirably well on all fronts during a crash of any significant speed.

Originally Posted by lambuhere1

I was under the impression that even airbags are covered under insurance. Isn't it ?

Can anyone please educate as to why it is NOT covered under insurance ?

From my experience they are covered under insurance. I was in an expensive crash years back and all of it was covered under insurance.

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Looks like all of the airbags deployed in such small looking crash, isn't that too much?

I've seen time and time again, people see a picture of a crash (or are involved in a crash) and feel cheated that the airbags didn't deploy!

This is a rare case where it's the opposite

However, in both cases, the fact is that the airbag system is designed with a pretty strict and well-tested set of prerequisites for deployment.

If those are met, the airbags deploy. If they aren't, they don't.

(In general, I completely agree with you that incorrect deployment of airbags can be extremely dangerous.)


In this case, the description of the crash holds a possible clue:

A sleepy driver of a car coming from opposite direction dashed against right side of this five days old Toyota Crysta

Owner of this vehicle took his vehicle to extreme edge of left side of mud road left along the tar road...

So look at the vector of the impact. It's not purely a frontal impact, hence the sensors obviously thought there was enough sideways movement to deploy the curtain & shoulder airbags too.

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

One query, for the rear curtain air bags to deploy, should the rear passengers too be wearing a seat belt?

I don't think so.

[dZired]

Driver jumps out of moving bus in Delhi, causes a 11 car pile-up

A bus driver in Southwest Delhi’s Bijwasan area near Kapashera recently jumped out of a moving bus after he hit a motorcycle. The driver thought the bus ran over the motorcycle rider, and thus decided to flee the scene. The rider was safe, but since the bus hadn't stopped yet when the driver jumped off, it collided with multiple cars.

Here are the pictures. It indeed looks horrific.









Source

[SmartCat]

The bus driver jumped out of the moving bus thinking he killed the motorcyclist. The Wagon R driver jumped out of his car "during an accident" to save himself.

Is jumping out of a vehicle part of DL test at Delhi RTO?

[BeingCynical]

A young senior executive of Bajaj Auto along with his wife and two children was driving from Mumbai to Pune via expressway. Due to rain and slippery conditions, his BMW skidded out of the track and hit the median killing the executive and his wife on the spot and badly injuring his two kids.

Both kids are said to be critical but stable condition. May the departed souls rest in peace