[AvinashV]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

I bought the Gen 3 Maruti Suzuki Swift VDi just over a month ago. The car is an excellent package. Arguably the best Diesel Hatch available in the market today. The large number of orders Maruti Suzuki received before launch is a testimony of the success of the product. I have driven my car for 3,500 kms in a month and have been happy in all aspects except the brakes!

Thanks a lot moralfibre for starting this thread. On almost every new thread by a Swift VDi owner i have tried to get to know what they have been feeling about the braking on their car & yes it is almost a consistent negative view even with members having changed their tyres.

[DieselLover]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

I drove to Goa on Thursday and realized that in panic braking situations, the car simply leaps forward instead of coming to a grinding halt screeching its tyres. At one occassion, I almost went into an oncoming Innova because the car refused to stop in time, I had to swerve to avoid collision. This was on a State highway at speeds between 60-80 kmph. The first 40% of brake pedal travel doesn't give any braking feedback, the rest is just like stepping on a hard piece of rubber that isn't holding up. The brakes feel spongy. After about 200 kms of highway driving on NH4, there was brake fade. The brakes wouldn't respond at speeds over 100 kmph unless you literally stepped on them.

Shocked to read this. I own 2009 model Ldi and have done a number of long trips through normal highways and ghat roads. Never experienced brake fade or inadequate braking during emergency situations.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

In case of Figo the Titanium variant that has ABS has better braking as the size of the brake rotors is different. Rotor diameter is 20mm more compared to lower variants. So ABS plus better braking.

If such is the case that even crucial safety equipment in a car is subject to discrimination across variants, I feel the Govt, ARAI, RTO should have strict norms about it.

ABS itself should be made mandatory across all variants.

Smaller rotors, no brake booster - not something that would get MS faith from customers.

[dinar]

The brake are an issue on the VDi, not driven the ZDi, so can not comment on that, Have had experience on highway braking inadequacy for sure. But since I am still using OE tyre, so till I get my upgrade [tyre] I will be driving very cautiously.

Anyone with 15 or 16 inch upgrade on a VDi/LDi should be able to comment on the tyre factor on these models.

@Kiran is it brake fad your talking about after 200KM is due to heat?

[bala80]

This is exactly the problem I (and many others) in the forum faced with the first gen swift VDI. Not everyone reported this issue and for a few who reported this continuosly with maruti, they came up with a brake booster change and if i recollect correctly, the improved booster had rotors with more diameter (dont recollect now, but can be referenced in the thread mentioned earlier). This was true with only the diesel variants (may be due to the added weight up front) and we never had any issues reported from the petrol variants.

Even after the so called brake booster upgrade, I was still not satisfied with the braking efficiency of the car and never had the confidence to take it on highways. In my case, the booster only helped change the feedback from the pedal and not the actual braking efficiency. I finally sold it off for this very same issue, those who drive cars with good set of brakes other than swift can easily make out the difference.

If we can get the respective part number's of the booster assembly in VDI and ZDI variants, we can figure out if a different booster is used in ZDI variant and can take it up appropriately with maruti. Hope someone will be able to help with this.

Originally Posted by moralfibre

The first 40% of brake pedal travel doesn't give any braking feedback, the rest is just like stepping on a hard piece of rubber that isn't holding up. The brakes feel spongy. After about 200 kms of highway driving on NH4, there was brake fade. The brakes wouldn't respond at speeds over 100 kmph unless you literally stepped on them.

[humyum]

Moral@ I somehow feel that your brakes need bleeding as the symptoms you mention all point towards air in the braking system. I could be wrong but its worth a try.

[noopster]

Damn this is scary. I had noticed the comment in GTO's review and specifically asked if the brakes on the L/V variants are worse than the Z per se (rather than just the ABS) and he confirmed it.

I have a 2006 Vxi and never had problems braking. Kiran- how is your experience vis-a-vis the old Swift?

Have you tried complaining to MSIL? Perhaps there is a safety oversight authority that we can appeal to? Isn't the company obliged to recall and correct this if it's a manufacturing flaw?

[90BHP]

@moralfibre - does the ZDi variant offer all round disc brakes or only 2 in the front ? If the setup is the same in the VDi then, the brakes should be good. Could be a problem in a certain batch of cars ? Having ABS doesn't necessarily improve linear braking but, bigger rotors definitely would help.

[extreme_torque]

@moral - Arguable the best diesel hatch but poor brakes?? Did I miss something? To be fair I havent driven the new VDi but did test drive the ZDi and the brakes were pretty good. Shame that Maruti has chosen to equip the middle and low variant with such brakes. Did you not test drive before buying it?

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

The Swift simply fails in the braking department and I have changed my driving style to accomodate the lack of brakes on the Swift. I posted a separate thread in order to ensure that this issue is highlighted to fellow bhpians wanting to opt for an LXi/LDi/VXi/VDi Swift. They simply refuse to stop and its time Maruti Suzuki fixes this issue on their assembly line.

DQ: how bad is the braking even if you shift into neutral and THEN brake?

What is your current driving style then?

I'm yet to take a TD but - Its fairly inconceivable as a 2008 VDi owner (done 73k) that Swift has poor brakes in its new avatar when the old ones did a fantastic job!

[barathvajan]

Hi Moralfiber,

Sorry for you that you had such an incident with brakes. My suggestion is that you take the vehicle to dealer and ask him to re bleed the system. As you have quoted no feel for the first 40 mm travel and spongy feel, it is pointing mainly towards poor bleeding.
Though i cannot say anything about brake fade. Note i have not driven the new swift. This is just a suggestion from my side from your post.
hope this helps.
Barath

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by AvinashV

Thanks a lot moralfibre for starting this thread. On almost every new thread by a Swift VDi owner i have tried to get to know what they have been feeling about the braking on their car & yes it is almost a consistent negative view even with members having changed their tyres.

Check the official review and there are many more people who have complained about poor brakes. You are lucky to have been pre notified.

Originally Posted by dinar

Have had experience on highway braking inadequacy for sure. But since I am still using OE tyre, so till I get my upgrade [tyre] I will be driving very cautiously.

I doubt a tyre upgrade will improve performance considerably. I have upgraded tyres and the brakes are still inadequate.

@Kiran is it brake fad your talking about after 200KM is due to heat?

It wasn't due to heat because I stopped just before Kolhapur for about an hour and then headed to Goa. So it surely wasn't due to heat.

Originally Posted by humyum

Moral@ I somehow feel that your brakes need bleeding as the symptoms you mention all point towards air in the braking system. I could be wrong but its worth a try.

Thanks, I plan to get that done soon.

Originally Posted by noopster

I have a 2006 Vxi and never had problems braking. Kiran- how is your experience vis-a-vis the old Swift?

I happened to drive an old Swift for a good amount of time and that includes driving on the same stretch I did over the weekend to Goa. That car had much better brakes than the new one.

Have you tried complaining to MSIL? Perhaps there is a safety oversight authority that we can appeal to? Isn't the company obliged to recall and correct this if it's a manufacturing flaw?

I'll first try to get this rectified at the service level and see if my issue is sorted.

Originally Posted by 90BHP

@moralfibre - does the ZDi variant offer all round disc brakes or only 2 in the front ? If the setup is the same in the VDi then, the brakes should be good. Could be a problem in a certain batch of cars ? Having ABS doesn't necessarily improve linear braking but, bigger rotors definitely would help.

Only front two discs for all L/V/ZDi.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Did you not test drive before buying it?

I have mentioned this before, I haven't taken a test drive before delivery. Even if I did, I wouldn't have figured out since all the test drive cars are Z.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

DQ: how bad is the braking even if you shift into neutral and THEN brake?

Never dared to shift to neutral before braking.

What is your current driving style then?

Drive below 50kmph at the most upto 60kmph and the braking is just about adequate. Start braking much earlier than I would want to. Keep 4-5 car lengths of a distance while following cars.

I'm yet to take a TD but - Its fairly inconceivable as a 2008 VDi owner (done 73k) that Swift has poor brakes in its new avatar when the old ones did a fantastic job!

I would rate the old ones just about good rather than fantastic. They were good but certainly not great for a car generating the amount of torque.

[moralfibre]

Just to validate my feeling, I went through the official review and here is what people are saying about the brakes:

Originally Posted by CRtorquefan

Same pinch..
I was also making sort of Similar comparison.
No offense meant to Swift owners but IMHO, Brakes of Alto @100kmph fell much better appointed than Swift LDi/VDi @100kmph.

Originally Posted by ashis89

. I am not exaggerating but the brakes of our 13yr old M800 felt more sure footed than the Swift.

Originally Posted by humyum

True, The brakes felt exactly like how i felt when the brakes in my swift D needed a bleed. There was no bite at slow speeds and at high speeds it felt like in high speed situations I ll just go into whatever you have been trying to avoid. Totally Surprised at the fact that my car without an ABS and just an upgraded brake booster has way better brakes than the new Swift and mine does not even have an ABS. I guess there was no learning lesson for Maruti

Originally Posted by sidindica

The awful brakes are a big concern in the new swidt V DI. I got a chance to drive one at chandigarh and they brakes just didn't work as they were supposed to. Absolutely no feel, and the car's stopping time is alarmingly long. The brakes in the new swift L and V are just plain atrocious.

Originally Posted by geeash

The turning radius is apt and good. The brakes are not worthy to speak about. even though it has boost assist and abs, the brakes are non assuring. Is there any upgrade that can be done here to get a cushy feel?

Originally Posted by shibujp

I have never been quoted so much!!Twice actually Thanks guys for pointing that out. But I see uniform "weak braking" comments. Not something good for a 6 lakh hatch.

Originally Posted by rajeev k

Equipping only the high end variant with a good braking system and the rest with an average one defies all logic and doesn't appear fair. Does the bigger tyres playing its part in here. Brakes are not to be bundled with other gadgetry, standard on the high end variant.
Brakes are the first and foremost safety aspect, all manufacturers to focus on.

Originally Posted by algos&autos

the negatives:
rear seat experience(more claustrophobic than before)
Ingress/egress experience(more than one person said one wouldn't do this without hitting something)
smaller boot
weaker brakes
the negatives are about safety, which are not worth compromising. As a family man, the rear seat experience and the smaller boot are big no-nos.

So I thereby confirm that it cannot be a problem with my car alone.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Never dared to shift to neutral before braking.



Drive below 50kmph at the most upto 60kmph and the braking is just about adequate. Start braking much earlier than I would want to. Keep 4-5 car lengths of a distance while following cars.



I would rate the old ones just about good rather than fantastic. They were good but certainly not great for a car generating the amount of torque.

Then you are driving like a petrol driver. Of course, you will find the diesel brakes cow manure in that case.

Disclaimer: This is of course, how I drive - I am inviting you to open your mind and try out something different - please don't give me theory in reply. Try it first.

There are three sorts of braking that one typically has to do:

1. Mild slowdown - from 60 to 45-50 kph in the same gear. Just feather the brakes in that instant. Of course, the closer you get to 1000 rpm - the more engine will resist further braking, but it works just fine for me from 1800 to 1400 rpm for instance.(in the same gear).
2. Coasting - where you are on the (Gurgaon) expressway and you see the toll plaza ahead. Here you shift into neutral, and feather the brakes as you come in, closer, and shift into the 1st/2nd gear as you merge into bumper-bumper traffic. But you shift into neutral first, coast and THEN apply brakes.
3. Emergency braking: Standing on the brakes (and pumping them). even here - with engine disengaged, the car brakes far more effectively than if you are in gear and continuously shifting down.

The way I mostly brake from high speeds, is to tap the clutch, shift into neutral, and a millisecond step on the brake. That is pretty much my SOP.

Of course, don't take my word for it - ask spadix. he will tell you regarding my degree of control and braking at high speeds. If the brake was as bad as you are saying it is, then I'd have sold off the car!

[spadix]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Then you are driving like a petrol driver. Of course, you will find the diesel brakes cow manure in that case.

The way I mostly brake from high speeds, is to tap the clutch, shift into neutral, and a millisecond step on the brake. That is pretty much my SOP.

Of course, don't take my word for it - ask spadix. he will tell you regarding my degree of control and braking at high speeds. If the brake was as bad as you are saying it is, then I'd have sold off the car!

Yeah - I've seen this SOP with my own eyes. It's mighty effective and while it flies against common wisdom, I think it's time to realize that common wisdom was built on the experience of driving petrols/NA diesels without the turbo thrust.

While I haven't tried this technique myself yet, having seen it first-hand only in the very recent past, the next time I visit my parents in Hyderabad and drive my Dad's Indigo pre-DiCOR TDi I'll be sure to try it out (on an empty road of course). I know how the Indigo feels when I brake suddenly at 2.3+ k rpm (when the turbo is really on song) and any improvement in its braking behaviour in such situations is absolutely welcome.

Don't try this on inclines but of course, which sane driver does 100+ kmph on inclines/ghats anyway?

Regards,
spadix