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Old 8th May 2018, 10:15   #166
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Default Re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Apple iphone: It is one well built phone trusted by many people and people are willing to pay insane amounts of money.

Imagine you buy it. Immediately for its safety you put an apple original case (again paying premium).
One day accidentally it falls down flat on the screen. It hits a pointed stone bang at the center of the screen. The screen is broken it's internals are all in pieces. Basically the entire phone is damaged beyond repair.
You take this the service center and ask why the phone wasn't protected byt he case? He tells, "sir the impact was not correct". He further adds "don't worry sir, the data inside the phone isn't lost. Because the phone is designed very well"
You shout at him, you post your experience on the internet. How did the case not work even when the entire phone is damaged?
Plainly because the impact was not as per how the cover was designed to protect.
Should you be happy that the data is not lost or should you be worried that the expensive cover didn't protect the phone which was why it was purchased?
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Old 8th May 2018, 10:30   #167
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Default Re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Looks like airbag circuit got damaged even before sensors detecting the crash. We can clearly see the damage in steering and dash board area.
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Old 8th May 2018, 10:58   #168
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Default Re: Toyota Fortuner: A family car or coffin? (Un)Safety Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaren View Post
By any yardstick, this accident is a bad one. Thank god the Driver had a miraculous escape. But the Air Bags did not deploy inspite of the car being totalled because there was no impact on the sensor. Read more at:

https://medium.com/@divyjaising/targ...e-f66317453c8a

@ Mods: If there is a another post about the same vehicle please delete this thread.
Thanks for all the responses. Few points I would like to make:

a. I don't have a Toyota Vehicle let alone a Fortuner.
b. The objective of sharing this article, when I read this article on FB was that it will bring in very informed and knowledge based responses and that any future Fortuner Owner will be more informed when he/she buys this vehicle.

To that extent, this article has served its purposes. And to one person, who said this does not require a separate thread, am in agreement. When I posted it first, I had requested the MODS to merge this into an appropriate thread.
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Old 8th May 2018, 11:17   #169
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Default Re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

This article is from the official National Highway Traffic Safety Association. It is an organisation in North America that evaluates cars on their safety rating.

I am searching for an article that I know is a law in Europe - from the EU-NCAP. I will post the link to the article as soon as I find it.

But the most important part is - Airbag will NOT deploy if no seatbelt is worn. As illustrated by the bolded part...

Quote:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/air-bags

Overview
From 1987 to 2015, frontal air bags saved 44,869 lives. That’s enough people to fill a major league ballpark.

Learn about the safety benefits of frontal and side air bags and why it’s so important to use a seat belt—your first line of defense. Also receive important guidance on how to safely position yourself and your passengers, as well as young ones in car seats and booster seats to prevent injury from air bags in a crash.

Protection
Air bags are supplemental protection and are designed to work best in combination with seat belts. Both frontal and side-impact air bags are generally designed to deploy in moderate to severe crashes.

Air bags reduce the chance that your upper body or head will strike the vehicle's interior during a crash. To avoid an air-bag-related injury, make sure you are properly seated and remember—air bags are designed to work with seat belts, not replace them. And children under 13 should sit in the back seat.

Vehicles can be equipped with both front and side air bags (SABs). Frontal air bags have been standard equipment in all passenger cars since model year 1998 and in all SUVs, pickups and vans since model year 1999. SABs are being offered as standard or optional equipment on many new passenger vehicles.

Air Bag Deployment
Generally, when there is a moderate to severe crash, a signal is sent from the air bag system's electronic control unit to an inflator within the air bag module. An igniter in the inflator starts a chemical reaction that produces a harmless gas, which inflates the air bag within the blink of an eye – or less than 1/20th of a second. Because air bags deploy very rapidly, serious or sometimes fatal injuries can occur if the driver or passenger is too close to – or comes in direct contact with – the air bag when it first begins to deploy.

Side Air Bags
Side-impact air bags inflate even more quickly since there is less space between the driver or passengers and the striking object, whether the interior of the vehicle, another vehicle, a tree, or a pole.

Frontal Air Bags
Sitting as far back from the steering wheel or dashboard as possible and using seat belts help prevent drivers and passengers from being "too close" to a deploying frontal air bag. This is why rear-facing car seats should not be placed in front of an active air bag, and children under 13 should be seated in the back seat.

...
...
...

ON-OFF
There are few circumstances under which the risk of sitting in front of an active frontal air bag outweigh the safety benefits. Under these circumstances, NHTSA will authorize the installation of an air bag ON-OFF switch. Authorization will be granted under the following four circumstances:
  • A rear-facing infant restraint must be placed in the front seat of a vehicle because there is no rear seat or the rear seat is too small for the child restraint. (For the passenger air bag only.)
  • A child under 13 years of age must ride in the front seat because the child has a condition that requires frequent medical monitoring in the front seat. (For the passenger air bag only.)
  • An individual with a medical condition is safer if the frontal air bag is turned off. A written statement from a physician must accompany each request based on a medical condition unless the request is based on a medical condition for which the National Conference on Medical Indications for Air Bag Deactivation recommends deactivation. (For driver and/or passenger frontal air bag as appropriate.)
  • A driver must sit within a few inches of the air bag, typically because she or he is of extremely small stature (i.e., 4 feet 6 inches or less). (For the driver frontal air bag only.)
  • In those instances where an ON-OFF switch is not made for a particular vehicle, NHTSA will consider allowing an air bag to be deactivated. The approval process for deactivation is more rigorous because, while an ON-OFF switch allows the driver or passenger frontal air bag to be turned on and off in appropriate circumstances, deactivation is not so flexible. Once deactivated, an air bag cannot be easily activated for those drivers or passengers who may need it.

    ...
    ...
    ...
I hope this helped.
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Old 8th May 2018, 14:33   #170
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Default Re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Looks like Toyota Kirloskar is taking their customers for a ride. A series of accidents in which the airbags have not deployed summarises a serious compromise on safety by Toyota. The claim from Toyota that the sensors were not impacted is baseless when the car itself is being totalled. This could be the case with most of the old gen Fortuners sold in India. See the case of Fortuner crash in Banglore, where the Karnataka consumer commission fined Toyota to pay the price of the car to the customer. The airbags didn't deploy even after the front sensore were impacted.

Toyota had recalled all their cars around the world equipped with Takata Airbags for replacement. But in India, I think only Altis models were recalled and not Innova and Fortuner.(I may be wrong). The problem with Takata airbags was that their inflators were defective. Its inflators can explode with too much force and hurl shrapnel. At least 20 people have died worldwide and more than 280 have been hurt. I seriously doubt if Toyota India just disengaged the sensors of these defective and dangerous airbags instead of replacing them. Can the affected owners find out from Toyota if their cars where equipped with Takata airbags or any other brand?

In March 2014 Toyota had paid USD1.2 Billion (Rs 7,200 crore) to the US government to settle criminal charges for lying to regulators about safety issues. But in India where laws are not as strict as the western countries Toyota couldn't care more with regard to the safety of their customers.

Another information I found from a statement by Toyota Philippines when they recalled their vehicles, including Fortuners for replacing some spiral cable retainers connected to airbags matches and makes more sense to the events of these accidents.
Quote:
Toyota Motor Philippines Corp. (TMPC) has announced the recall of its best-selling Innova, Fortuner, and Hilux vehicles. “Due to the shape and location of the spiral cable retainers, this may cause some connectivity loss related to the air bag system. The spiral cables that could be damaged when the steering wheel is turned. In such case, the driver side air bag may not deploy in the event of a crash. There are, however, no incidents reported related to this condition,” TMPC said in a statement.
This could also be the cause for failure of airbags deploying in the Fortuners in India and if it is, then Toyota India is deliberately hiding it from their customers.

Last edited by Flyer : 8th May 2018 at 14:34.
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Old 8th May 2018, 14:59   #171
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It is not unheard of that Toyota has shirked away from owning up issues. The unintended acceleration issue took many lives and years before it was acknowledged by Toyota. https://www.autosafety.org/major-rec...-acceleration/ it is possible there is an issue with the fortuner and Toyota should conduct a thorough investigation.

Last edited by Traveler : 8th May 2018 at 15:03.
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Old 8th May 2018, 15:12   #172
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Default Re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaidhiR View Post
But the most important part is - Airbag will NOT deploy if no seatbelt is worn. As illustrated by the bolded part...

I hope this helped.
Actually the article nowhere states that airbag deployment is dependent on seatbelts being latched.

Googling this question brought up a document at www.honda.ca

enSRSSystems.pdf

Quoting from page 8

Quote:
Dual-threshold airbags have two deployment thresholds: One for a belted occupant and the other for an unbelted occupant.
If the occupant’s seat belt is not latched, the airbag will deploy at the same threshold (or level of crash severity) as a conventional airbag.
Help make sense of this.
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Old 8th May 2018, 17:38   #173
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Default Re: Toyota Fortuner crashes, Air bags did not deploy *EDIT* Another similar case Pg.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by samaspire View Post
Actually the article nowhere states that airbag deployment is dependent on seatbelts being latched.
The development of restraint systems usually depends on the local laws and regulations. Here, in Europe, the assumption is that all occupants in an automobile are belted and seated upright. An Airbag always is a supplementary method of safety. Your seatbelt is always the first line of safety. This is what is stated in the EU-NCAP regulations.

Quote:
https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/glossary/

Airbags (frontal, side, curtain, knee)
The airbag is a vehicle safety device that consists of an inflatable bag, also known as an airbag cushion. The airbag module is designed to inflate rapidly during a collision and provide the occupants with additional protection and restraint during a crash. Airbags provide an energy absorbing surface between the occupants and at the interior of the cars. Airbags are normally installed to protect in case of a frontal collision (frontal airbags) and lateral collision (Side curtains airbags and/or torax airbags). Also knee airbags and seatbelt airbags are available.

Airbags are only efficient if seatbelts are worn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samaspire View Post
Quote:
Dual-threshold airbags have two deployment thresholds: One for a belted occupant and the other for an unbelted occupant.
If the occupant’s seat belt is not latched, the airbag will deploy at the same threshold (or level of crash severity) as a conventional airbag.
Help make sense of this.
A dual stage airbag has the potential to fire twice depending on conditions such as speed, crash severity, occupant seating position, and seatbelt use or non-use. The first firing may be ~70% of the volume and in case of a serious accident, the remaining volume will be fired. An Airbag is always tested considering a belted occupant. The "misuse" load case will determine the forces experienced in case of an unbelted occupant. Insurance only pays for defects that occur outside of the occupant's region of control. If the "misuse" is from the occupant's side, then Insurance companies reserve the right to refuse any claim.

I think this video will make things clear. Understanding Airbags and certain scenarios explained. Watch from 14:00 for more clarity on this "misuse".

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