[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by wanderer4x4

The vehicle skidded under braking on a long sweeping curve on the highway, glanced a roadside tree on the RHS, then toppled and rolled over thrice before coming to rest on its side.
I am posting some pics below for your comments and advice.

Doesn't the Fortuner come with ABS?? How did the vehicle skid during breaking in the first place??

Or did the driver just lose his tail during fast cornering? The speed at which the vehicle was driven is an important factor.

[wanderer4x4]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

Doesn't the Fortuner come with ABS?? How did the vehicle skid during breaking in the first place??

Or did the driver just lose his tail during fast cornering? The speed at which the vehicle was driven is an important factor.

I am not sure about the exact speed of the vehicle at the time of the accident, but what I have been told and I guess is that it must have been upwards of 80 kmph which in our twisty and curvy roads is difficult to control and more so in such a large vehicle.

It was a left curve and the vehicle lost its tail under braking and sharp turning towards the left at the same time, so I guess ABS was not much of a help. May be ESP could have.

[vnabhi]

I'm glad that all occupants got off with minor injuries! While Toyota can be commended for the strong body of the Fortuner, it also deserves blame for not incorporating ESP and curtain airbags, moreso when those features are offered in most countries. SUVs are highly susceptible to roll-over accidents, and I'm aware of quite a few in the US involving Honda CRVs and Toyota Siennas.

The bull bar might have played spoilsport here for non-deployment of airbags, but as it was a roll-over, curtain airbags would have normally deployed, had they been there. It is difficult to gauge the intensity of frontal impact and hence even if the bull bar was not there, there is no guarantee that they'd have been activated.

While on this topic, a friend's Sonata went over a road divider when the car swerved to avoid an 800 that swayed onto its trajectory. The Sonata's front right wheel hit the divider at high speed (around 60 kmph), causing the entire car to go over the divider and stop on the opposite side. Fortunately it was past midnight, so there was no traffic on the opposite side. Despite the angular hit, both airbags deployed. The only visible damage was a completely shattered front right wheel and a small crack on the windscreen. The engine guard saved the engine, though we came to know later that the shafts took a hit also.

What complicates the matter was that the driver was not wearing a seat belt. He did not have any injuries at all. But in the repairs that cost 3.5 lakhs (2 lakhs on airbags alone), the seat belts and pre-tensioners were also changed with the airbags. And that was a case where he felt that lots of money could have been saved if the airbags had not deployed.

[vikram_d]

The incident narrated above again confirms that the rate of deceleration matters. In the above case deceleration would have been so rapid that the airbags deployed.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

What complicates the matter was that the driver was not wearing a seat belt. He did not have any injuries at all. But in the repairs that cost 3.5 lakhs (2 lakhs on airbags alone), the seat belts and pre-tensioners were also changed with the airbags. And that was a case where he felt that lots of money could have been saved if the airbags had not deployed.

The seat belt assembly has to be replaced after such accident. It is stipulated in the car's manual. And if the driver felt a lot of money could have been saved, please ask him to contemplate a scenario where so many things could have gone wrong. (I hope) he values his life more than the cost of repairs. On afterthought if he had been driving slower he wouldn't have had even an accident.

Originally Posted by wanderer4x4

I am not sure about the exact speed of the vehicle at the time of the accident, but what I have been told and I guess is that it must have been upwards of 80 kmph which in our twisty and curvy roads is difficult to control and more so in such a large vehicle.

It was a left curve and the vehicle lost its tail under braking and sharp turning towards the left at the same time, so I guess ABS was not much of a help. May be ESP could have.

I drive on a twisty and curvy road every day, to and fro (it's the Mumbra bypass road for those in the know), and both my Ikon and Santro hold the road at speeds of 60kmph. The Ikon could probably be pushed a little further, but (my) body roll gets excessive.

I have braked moderately hard while taking curves (specially in the Santro which is a tallboy design) and have never felt the rear end spinning out. This is when the car doesn't have ABS. With ABS I am sure the car would be much more steerable as the wheels don't lock.

My guess is the vehicle was probably driving at very high speeds (excess of 80kmph could mean 90kmph as well as 120kmph) and the wheels lost traction not because the ABS didn't kick in but because of the weight of the vehicle and the resulting momentum that didn't allow the vehicle to stick to the road and veer off it into a tree.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by honeybee

--snipped--
I have braked moderately hard while taking curves (specially in the Santro which is a tallboy design) and have never felt the rear end spinning out. This is when the car doesn't have ABS. With ABS I am sure the car would be much more steerable as the wheels don't lock.

My guess is the vehicle was probably driving at very high speeds (excess of 80kmph could mean 90kmph as well as 120kmph) and the wheels lost traction not because the ABS didn't kick in but because of the weight of the vehicle and the resulting momentum that didn't allow the vehicle to stick to the road and veer off it into a tree.

Sorry, but ABS would have no bearing on grip when your tail pushes out, or drifts.
or even your nose.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Sorry, but ABS would have no bearing on grip when your tail pushes out, or drifts.
or even your nose.

Err... I thought I was trying to make the same point. Maybe I need to articulate it better, but essentially that was my point too. The ABS wouldn't help (much) if the tyres lost grip due to other factors such as the vehicle momentum.

[nitinbose]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

In 2009, Toyota added VSC, changed the tyres and tweaked the suspension a little bit. The Fortuner was always fulltime 4WD AFAIK.

Hi Nilanjanray,

Are you sure Toyota had added VSC to the Fortuner from 2009 onwards? I've not seen the manual mention so.

Nitin

[ACM]

1) The fortuner seems to have faired well in the crash

2) The Bull Bars reduce the effectiveness of the front crumple zones and hence are unsafe for the occupants besides being deadly for pedistrians.

3) The Bull Bars can also be a reason for front airbags not deploying as the sensors are in the front bumpers.

4) The accidents seems to have been at an angle rather than frontal this can be another reasons for front airbags not deploying.

5) Fortuner does not have sideairbags which is criminal in a car of this price.

6) Fortuner does need ESP. Yet it has faired reasonably well.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by nitinbose

Hi Nilanjanray,

Are you sure Toyota had added VSC to the Fortuner from 2009 onwards? I've not seen the manual mention so.

Nitin

My comment was w.r.t. the South African model. The 4WD MT D4D there has had it since 2009. We would get it here in 2012 I guess as GTO's review says. Note: the petrol ones in SA didn't have the VSC AFAIK.

[srishiva]

Dont airbags deploy when there is sudden deceleration irrespective of sensors? If your car keeps scraping things on the side and decelerates over a period of time, it should not deploy the airbags?

[suhaas307]

A mammoth of an SUV with loads of power and no curtain-airbags and ESP? Doesn't sound great, does it? I like the Fortuner, don't get me wrong. I love the way it looks, and the engine is a stonker. It's a great SUV, with loads of character, despite being a T. But Toyota seriously needs to consider improving its dynamics.

I remember having a heated discussion on the same topic with two fellow members, who had told me to take a hike when I questioned the Fortuner's dynamic ability. It's a ladder-frame SUV. What else would you expect?

If you drive like a nut in something that has the power, but isn't equipped to deal with it, what do you expect? You shouldn't be driving like a nut in any car, in the first place.

And don't even get me started on the bull-bars on these things.

[dkaile]

^
Rather than adding other gizmos, Toyota should opt for 6 airbags and VSC across all variants in a vehicle of this class/cost. We don't need cruise control in India but VSC/ABS and 6 Airbags are a must. Sad to see that 6 airbags have still been skipped in the facelift.

[redrage]

Toyota themselves have made available to the buyers a Grill Guard in their accessories range,

Could someone please shed light whether they have used this in their Fortuners or what the Toyota service people had to say regarding this installation blocking the airbag sensors? How would it affect the crumple zone?

[AvonA7]

Well, reviving this so called Dormant thread which was expected (IMO) to be more active w.r.t. customer safety from worlds largest car manufacturer who is considered to be a benchmark in providing the most reliable vehicle worldwide.

Originally Posted by vnabhi

While on this topic, a friend's Sonata went over a road divider when the car swerved to avoid an 800 that swayed onto its trajectory. The Sonata's front right wheel hit the divider at high speed (around 60 kmph), causing the entire car to go over the divider and stop on the opposite side. Fortunately it was past midnight, so there was no traffic on the opposite side. Despite the angular hit, both airbags deployed. The only visible damage was a completely shattered front right wheel and a small crack on the windscreen. The engine guard saved the engine, though we came to know later that the shafts took a hit also.

What complicates the matter was that the driver was not wearing a seat belt. He did not have any injuries at all. But in the repairs that cost 3.5 lakhs (2 lakhs on airbags alone)

Good point, not wearing seat belt.

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Looking at the pictures I would only expect airbags to deploy if they are on the sides. Does the Fortuner have side bags?

+1. Sir, the post you quoted had the front airbags deployed, though it's clear from the picture that the car didn't take any visible front bumper impact, which raises more Qs about this whole airbag deployment process.

Originally Posted by vikram_d

You are forgetting the biggest parameter of them all 'rate of deceleration'. If the rate of deceleration is beyond a certain limit the airbags will deploy even if there is no full frontal impact.

This raises more doubt about this whole process, this one seems more logical (again I’m no expert) but even if we consider this logic, none of us are sure why the airbag didn't deploy in this particular case.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

First we install illegal, unsafe & aftermarket accessories like bull bars, which by the way is not recommended on a car with airbags, and then we talk about safety & flame the company???

Who knows, as bblost said, the bull bars maybe the reason that the airbags dint deploy.

Exactly, who knows ! as we can see, there are other post with pics (#61) and different other scenarios from other BHPIans (rate of deceleration, not wearing seatbelt etc) we (TBHPians) doesn't know for sure, when and why the airbags will deploy. I am sure none of us here would like to leave safety of us in an unfortunate incident like this to "Bhagwan Bharose" (English : God's will)

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Exactly!!

You have put a local aftermarket bull bar on your Fortuner. There is no way the airbags sensor will get activated even in head on impact with that bull bar.

As mentioned by everyone Fortuner only has front airbags which in a rollover are not supposed to deploy.

From an average Indian car buyer perspective, aftermarket bull bar is understandable (to be one of the reason of airbags not deploying) but as per different experiences shared by other experienced BHPians in this thread, we are assuming things here and we don't know for sure why the airbags didn't deploy in this case ('rate of deceleration', #61, not wearing seatbelt ...)

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It’ll be good if anybody experienced and technically competent in this specific area can clearly explain the reason of airbag not deploying in this case and also suggest avoiding things to do in a car which might interfere with the safety features. I am sure current owner ( any manufacturer ) and future owners will take note of this. Thanks in advance.