[vikram_d]

I was reading an article on the web and came across this paragraph which I think sums it very nicely. Oh and keep in mind this is Jeremy Clarkson talking.

"As you may know, the FIA runs an independent safety programme called NCAP which tests every new car and gives them a star rating. In theory, this should be jolly useful. In practice, it isn't, because to get the maximum five stars, makers are now designing their cars to perform well in the specific tests. But accidents are always weird, unpredictable. And a car designed to stay intact when T-boned at 90 degrees might disintegrate if it's hit at 72 degrees. There's no way of knowing."

The highlighted portion very aptly puts what accidents really are. Unpredictable.

The same logic applies to deploying of airbags as well. They are designed to deploy in very specific cases. So we don't know when they will or will not deploy.

Link to the article in case anybody is interested.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/jeremy-cla...sta-2012-01-06

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by dkaile

^
Rather than adding other gizmos, Toyota should opt for 6 airbags and VSC across all variants in a vehicle of this class/cost. We don't need cruise control in India but VSC/ABS and 6 Airbags are a must. Sad to see that 6 airbags have still been skipped in the facelift.

As a Fortuner owner, I fully agree. Many of the fancy features are just nice to have, but curtain airbags and VSC are critical for a vehicle such as Fortuner. I wish there was some option to add VSC to our Classic Fortuners.

[driven646]

Note from Moderator: Thread merged with existing thread on same topic. Please continue the discussion here. Thanks


Dear Mod's,

As I am a new member at the forum - I am posting this topic here - please feel free to move it to the appropriate section.

Dear member's,

Yesterday (June 12, 2012) My Father and Uncle along with their driver were en route to Manali from Shimla - when about an hour out of Shimla - coming around a bend they came across a Car coming downhill at high speed on the wrong side of the lane.

They themselves were travelling at about 40-50 Km per hour and in order to avoid a head on collision, my uncle swerved left into the hillside while slamming the brakes.

The Car hit with a heavy impact on the front passenger side while the driver side too impacted to a lesser extent over a small ditch.

My Father and uncle were wearing their seat- belts and suffered no injury except some soreness due to whiplash from being flung forward and held back by the seat belts.

My father's spectacles flew off and smashed into pieces against the dashboard.

BUT THE AIRBAGS DID NOT DEPLOY !!!

The front bumper is completely destroyed on the passenger side where there is also mechanical damage to the wheel assembly - the car could not be driven due to the front left tyre also being torn by the heavy impact.

A tow truck had to pull the Fortuner out and then a Flat bed truck had to be called to haul the car away to the dealership.

I am posting pictures of the accident.

This Fortuner was bought in April 2010 and has covered nearly 30,000 Km's.

It has been serviced at every interval as prescribed by Toyota at it's authorized service center at Chandigarh.

My uncle has been a Toyota fan and has owned a top end Qualis and still owns a 2005 top end Innova (which has done 1.75 Lakh Km).

My question is - why did the Airbag's not deploy despite such a heavy frontal impact?

Are we being taken for a ride here? We purchase these premium cars and do not mind shelling out extra for safety features such as Airbags and ABS just to enjoy peace of mind and is this the result?

Please let me know what you members think.

[aviraj]

Air bags are typically designed to deploy in frontal and near-frontal collisions, which are comparable to hitting a solid barrier at approximately 25kmph. From the pictures it looks like it was not a head on collision. Front air bags are not designed to deploy in side impact. Maybe thats why they did not deploy. Can't really say it's an issue with Toyota or Fortuner. Conditions to deploy the air bags may not have been met

[.anshuman]

Occupant are all safe, nobody was hurt then how does it matter if Airbags were deployed to not? Please check the discussion starting from page#1.

[vikram_d]

From the photos it looks like the crash has not impacted the crash beam behind the bumper where the airbag sensors are generally located. I think that is why they have not deployed. You also mentioned that they were travelling at 40 - 50 kmph. Hard braking involved would have scrubbed of speed rather well and the impact would have been low speed. Going by the looks of it, I would estimate the crash speed to be not more than 15 - 20 kmph.

[raj_5004]

The impact has been very very less for the airbags to deploy.

It is clear, airbags deploy under heavy frontal impact. In this case, even without the airbags, the front occupants did not have any major injuries. So was the airbags really needed? No.

It is not necessary that airbags will deploy under every frontal impact.

[driven646]

It seem's that all of you are in agreement that the impact did not merit the deployment of the Airbags.

While I am grateful for your insight - I would respectfully disagree.

The impact was sufficient to smash the left side of the front bumper and cause a sizable dent to the right.

What is the point of Airbags only deploying at lets say a full frontal collision at 80 KM? I doubt even Airbags can save someone who has an accident like that in car with the mass of the Fortuner.

We are all hill driver's who drive extremely cautiously sticking to the golden 'Always drive on the left - never overtake on a turn' rule of the hills.

We are always using the seat-belt and the seat-belts are what prevented major injury to my father & uncle.

We have 3 other car's with Airbags including a 2005 'V' model Innova - and this is the first serious accident where one would assume 'They would deploy'.

From reading the post of the original author of this thread and recounting my experience - I feel Toyota is just taking the Indian consumer for a ride and their Airbags in the Fortuner and probably the Innova are redundant, useless and just there for embellishment.

We have collectively lost faith in the Toyota brand.

[noopster]

With all due respect, I think you are overreacting a little.

The airbag is just one of the safety features that a car has-most modern automobiles are constructed with crumple zones in place that absorb the impact and keep the occupants safe. Plus the seatbelts correctly worn by your family members helped prevent major injury.

Since your Dad and Uncle were relatively uninjured, can you imagine the airbags deploying may have actually injured them more? For example I have a genuine fear of what would happen if the airbag deployed and smashed into my spectacles. Losing my eyesight seems to be the obvious conclusion.

Your family is to be commended for following all the mandated safety procedures and you have this to thank for their being fit and fine today. I would suggest you forward your complaint to Toyota management demanding an explanation but I strongly feel their answers would be very similar to what you are seeing on this thread.

[vikram_d]

driven646 - Kindly read the vehicle's owner manual. They would have clearly mentioned the conditions in which the airbags will deploy and under which conditions they will not deploy and then check if this accident meets that deployment criteria. If it does they write to Toyota and ask for an explanation.

Edit: Bumpers are designed to crumble above certain speeds. By the limited crumbling in the photos above it is clear that the vehicle was pretty slow when the impact happened and you have to thank whoever was driving it for being so careful.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Occupant are all safe, nobody was hurt then how does it matter if Airbags were deployed to not? Please check the discussion starting from page#1.

Find this argument very strange. If one is safe by God's grace, does that mean that the safety features in the car should not have done the job? A head on crash at 40-50kmph is by no means of low intensity.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by poloman

Find this argument very strange. If one is safe by God's grace, does that mean that the safety features in the car should not have done the job? A head on crash at 40-50kmph is by no means of low intensity.

In addition to this post, please check post#2 of this thread.

[Ford5]

Originally Posted by poloman

that mean that the safety features in the car should not have done the job.

Well not actually. For example ABS prevents wheel lock up and depending on the speeds the vehicle is doing and on what type of surface like wet/dry/slushy/broken roads the result of a non ABS equipped car differs a lot from an ABS equipped car, and from my experience the pedal feel and tyre grip feedback which you get from a Non ABS car is more reassuring in taking proper control of the car.

On the contrary an ABS car may prove to be extremely useful in stopping in a straight forward manner where you have ample distance in front of the vehicle to slow down, but 90% of indian roads leave the driver overwhelmed when he/she experiences a steering which needs to be firmly held when ABS is working to get the vehicle to an appropriate halt.

I've seen many novices who drive ABS cars and the steering goes zig-zag in their hands under hard braking plainly because the vehicle is still in motion and needs to be steered firmly away from obstacles, thus sort of negating the whole purpose of a safety feature called ABS.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by Ford5

I've seen many novices who drive ABS cars and the steering goes zig-zag in their hands under hard braking plainly because the vehicle is still in motion and needs to be steered firmly away from obstacles, thus sort of negating the whole purpose of a safety feature called ABS.

ABS helps to retain steering control under hard braking by not letting wheels lock. There is nothing wrong in steering away from an obstacle in a ABS equipped car. Pumping the pedal in a ABS equipped car is wrong. The pedal has to be depressed firmly without letting it off until the car comes to complete halt.

Sorry for the off-topic post.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by driven646

It seem's that all of you are in agreement that the impact did not merit the deployment of the Airbags.

While I am grateful for your insight - I would respectfully disagree.

The impact was sufficient to smash the left side of the front bumper and cause a sizable dent to the right.

What is the point of Airbags only deploying at lets say a full frontal collision at 80 KM? I doubt even Airbags can save someone who has an accident like that in car with the mass of the Fortuner

I agree with you. If it is such a limited technology, then its a total waste for me IMO.

Not to mention the extra 0.5-1 lakh it imposes in terms of dashboard repair costs when replaced.

honestly, Toyota should put more sensors if that is what it needs. But to give false sense of safety as the marketing material implies, is not a good thing.