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Old 27th May 2024, 17:20   #916
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

Without getting into the right or wrong of this, kerala SRTC drivers are notorious for their bad driving. The only guys who can be worse then them are the Pvt bus drivers. Which is surprising as the people there are generally chilled out and very laid back. There was an incident near my in laws place, where a KSRTC guy mowed down a couple of kids in a KTM after a long chase or something.

There was a thread about it here as well:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...wo-youths.html (Dashcam reveals a horrible accident caused by KSRTC driver killing two youths)

I do not know the politics behind the Drivers union and would advise everyone travelling to kerala to just let them continue driving like maniacs. Narrow roads, rickety machines plus drivers with huge ego isnt something I'd want to fight. The Thar guy should thank his stars that the Bus driver did not give a swipe on the way out.
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Old 27th May 2024, 17:53   #917
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
There are laws to define what's right and wrong. @Thad pointed out the correct thing with regards to UK; and your post seemed to indicate that wasn't the case for India; which I corrected above. Glad to see you aren't arguing on that point. There's no grey area on that matter.

As for the Thar driver's minor movement; it can be a wide set of reasons including him wanting the bus to reverse; but that's just arm-chair hypothesizing. Did the bus eventually have space to turn? Yes, he did. And that's all that matters.
I didn't mention what's the rule in India intentionally. But as you are repeating a rule which does not apply in this situarion, I have to now.

When there is an obstruction on the road, the driver has the right to cross over to the other lane as per the MV Act.

Please note, this also applies to the Thar driver. On spotting this bus, which was obstructing his lane, he has all the right to move over to the left and there was sufficient space to pass a bus on that space, it was just a Thar. Countless cars passed that space.

Regarding the space between bus and Thar, it was not sufficient. The bus turned right and Thar had to turn left to let it pass, however, he stopped the video right at the point when he had to turn left. That is not part of the lesson, which he wanted to convey.

It is quite heartening to see that there is a difference of opinion on this matter as some people do discourage Thar driver's action.

As I mentioned before, someone's freedom fighter is someone's militant. In this case, Thar driver is a Hero who stands for his rights for some and a road rager who is trying to escalate an easily diffusible situation.

I am not sure, had the bus hit this car and damaged it, how many will still consider him a Hero. The same people will shift the boat and call out this Thar driver's action.

As I mentioned before, I will not encourage my son to do this. Others who consider him a hero can share this video with their children and teach their kids how to stand for their rights.
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Road Rage  - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation-screenshot_20240527_172121.jpg  

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Old 27th May 2024, 18:48   #918
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
When there is an obstruction on the road, the driver has the right to cross over to the other lane as per the MV Act. ...
As I said in the first reply to you: yes! None of us have any problem with that.

It does not say that there is a right to do do so in the face of oncoming traffic. There is no such right.

/lawyering

(although it is an important point because it is an everyday occurrence in driving, and whether they choose to respect them or not, driver should know their rights and responsibilities)

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 27th May 2024 at 18:50.
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Old 27th May 2024, 19:12   #919
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
As I said in the first reply to you: yes! None of us have any problem with that.

It does not say that there is a right to do do so in the face of oncoming traffic. There is no such right.

/lawyering

(although it is an important point because it is an everyday occurrence in driving, and whether they choose to respect them or not, driver should know their rights and responsibilities)
Yes, I agree, but how can we be sure that this bus driver did not consider oncoming traffic?
When this video starts, the black car is seen merging with traffic after overtaking the obstruction. The bus was also supposed to do the same, however, on spotting oncoming traffic he decided to stop overtaking and attempted to merge before hand.
Having encountered bus drivers on such wide roads, I can confidently say that he is some of the considerate few who did not endanger oncoming traffic. It maybe just my viewpoint, I may be misinterpreting the video from bus drivers point of view as a lot of assumption is involved to build the chain of events.

Last edited by MT_Hyderabad : 27th May 2024 at 19:16.
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Old 27th May 2024, 19:18   #920
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by bravo82in View Post
It is sheer stupidity and arrogance for the Thar driver to block the path of a bus attempting to overtake on a narrow lane. Is it right for the Thar driver to stop in the middle of the road to teach the bus driver a lesson? What if someone decided to teach the Thar driver a lesson by crashing into him from behind?
The Thar stopped leaving sufficient space in front of the car. The erring bus driver had enough time, space and opportunity to check blind spots and safely move back into the correct lane within the first few seconds itself. The Thar could have creeped forward and inconvenienced the bus, which he did not.

The bus driver was being a bully/arrogant in my opinion blocking the dashcam car and the traffic behind by not moving back to his lane at the earliest safe opportunity. It is solely the bus driver's responsibility to make sure he is not endangering or obstructing the oncoming traffic in his attempt to overtake.

Could the Thar driver shown more courtesy by moving left? : Yes
Is he required to? : Absolutely not. The bus driver can't demand courtesy either. Especially when he is in the wrong.

The bus driver should have chosen a better point to overtake. I don't understand how some members here expect someone to bend over backwards to make things easier for rulebreaker. Although I avoid altercations with KSRTC drivers, I don't see any fault in the Thar driver's actions. He was not aggressive (not even passively), intimidating or speeding. He safely came to a stop.

To the other members who say, the roads are narrow and buses have time schedules to keep: I live in a very small remote town in Germany where the roads are even narrower such that in certain sections, you have to get off the road to make way for buses/heavy vehicles to pass through. Despite this, the buses maintain their schedule and doesn't push anyone out of their way. It is not the roads or the traffic density, because honestly it is worse here than what I had seen anywhere in Trivandrum.

From my personal experience, ( and I hate to generalize) but the majority of KSRTC drivers are terrible drivers. I empathize with their situation regarding the wages and inhumane working conditions, but that provides no grounds to justify their negligent behavior that takes lives on a daily basis.

Last edited by --gKrish-- : 27th May 2024 at 19:26.
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Old 27th May 2024, 19:41   #921
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
I didn't mention what's the rule in India intentionally. But as you are repeating a rule which does not apply in this situarion, I have to now.

When there is an obstruction on the road, the driver has the right to cross over to the other lane as per the MV Act.
An obstruction on the road. Here the ‘obstruction’ for the bus is a slowed down car. That’s not an obstruction.

Your whole hypothesis of argument is based on something that isn’t there. The white bus in front of that bus didn’t go into the opposite lane, coz there was no obstruction for him to do so. Neither did the car behind him.

Road Rage  - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation-img_2942.jpeg

Quote:
I am not sure, had the bus hit this car and damaged it, how many will still consider him a Hero. The same people will shift the boat and call out this Thar driver's action.
This arguing for the sake of an argument is getting to ridiculous lengths but I’ll answer this hypothetical situation and end it from my side - the bus driver will be charged for the offence; no one is going to buy any argument of an ‘obstruction’ on the road that allowed him the right to go in the opposite lane and hit an incoming vehicle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
As I said in the first reply to you: yes! None of us have any problem with that.

It does not say that there is a right to do do so in the face of oncoming traffic. There is no such right.
Exactly the point I have been trying to make repeatedly. Anyway, good to see the bus driver acknowledging that; else there would have been the usual scenes of arguments.
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Old 27th May 2024, 19:47   #922
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by --gKrish-- View Post

The bus driver should have chosen a better point to overtake. I don't understand how some members here expect someone to bend over backwards to make things easier for rulebreaker. Although I avoid altercations with KSRTC drivers, I don't see any fault in the Thar driver's actions. He was not aggressive (not even passively), intimidating or speeding. He safely came to a stop.

I live in a very small remote town in Germany where the roads are even narrower such that in certain sections, you have to get off the road to make way for buses/heavy vehicles to pass through. Despite this, the buses maintain their schedule and doesn't push anyone out of their way.
Hi gKrish,
Thank you for your detailed response. I appreciate your perspective and understand your points. However, I believe there are some contextual differences between driving in Germany and India that might influence our views.

In Germany, drivers are generally more considerate and will often let buses pass at the earliest opportunity. The road etiquette tends to favor cooperation and smooth traffic flow. In contrast, in India, it's quite common for drivers not to give space to the vehicle behind them to overtake, often forcing them to trail for longer distances. This can lead to frustration and sometimes risky maneuvers, as in the case with the bus driver.

While I agree that the bus driver should have been more cautious and considerate, it's also important to acknowledge the challenging driving culture and road conditions in India. Both drivers share a responsibility to ensure safety and cooperation on the road.

Best regards
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Old 27th May 2024, 19:54   #923
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

I'm inclined to think that if the thar had been a humbler, say, ertiga or dzire, we'd be more receptive to him standing up. The generic stereotype paintbrush has diluted his actions.

I say full points to the driver. Bus driver to the back of the class please. X-srtc drivers, UP, HRY, KAR, or KER seem to all have been cut from the same cloth.

You should see how long a pole they give to white fortuners in UP, while being so keen to inspect my Hector's backside.
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Old 27th May 2024, 21:02   #924
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
This arguing for the sake of an argument is getting to ridiculous lengths
I think that your observation and analysis of the event is accurate, incisive and correct.

I also think that the conversation has gone on long enough. It's all been said.
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Old 27th May 2024, 21:19   #925
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by praveesh4u View Post
The Kerala RTC bus was not speeding but calmly trying to overtake a car, leaving ample space for the Thar on the left side to pass.
This is very much against the tide. And i've to rub my eyes and read the above sentence twice. The Thar owner is super lucky to tell the tale, because the KSRTC bus was "calmly trying" to overtake and there were "ample" space. Else he would've just flew over the Thar without any second thought.

As someone who has driven a good part of my life on KL roads, I often wonder whether KSRTC drivers have lived a good part of their life in LHD countries. Their penchant for right side and right of way is just incredible.

Since a picture speaks a thousand words, I'm attaching one. Please don't bother to check if there's a broken white line or solid white line. They are merely for decorating roads, thinks the KSRTC drivers.

I've no comments on whether the Thar driver did the right thing or not.
Attached Thumbnails
Road Rage  - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation-overtake.jpg  


Last edited by Bibendum90949 : 27th May 2024 at 21:36.
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Old 27th May 2024, 22:26   #926
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
An obstruction on the road. Here the Ďobstructioní for the bus is a slowed down car. Thatís not an obstruction.

Your whole hypothesis of argument is based on something that isnít there. The white bus in front of that bus didnít go into the opposite lane, coz there was no obstruction for him to do so. Neither did the car behind him.
This arguing for the sake of an argument is getting to ridiculous lengths .
As I mentioned earlier, the obstruction was the fuel loaded truck. These trucks cannot make sudden 90 degree turns. This slowed down the traffic and this bus decided to overtake. I am not even sure if the bus could even see the fuel truck. The bus ahead must have already slowed down and had a clear view hence it didn't decide to overtake. I am available for sharing more observations if needed.
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Old 27th May 2024, 23:02   #927
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by praveesh4u View Post
https://Youtu.be/ffqlaCcFkyI?si=og6tyNLp9Bkbldqf

Here is an incident from Kerala. A Thar driver decided to teach a Kerala RTC driver a lesson for crossing the continuous white line. Although many commented in support of the Thar drivier, I feel what he did was uncalled for. The Kerala RTC bus was not speeding but calmly trying to overtake a car, leaving ample space for the Thar on the left side to pass.

The sheer arrogance of the Thar driver to block a public transport bus in this specific situation seems unnecessary.
Oh wow.

When you said that his actions were uncalled for, I thought "Ok, that's an opinion."

Then comes your support for this law breaker of a driver. The law is there for a reason. Everyone bends it once in a while, but here he is clearly breaking it.

Ample space on the left for Thar to pass? So what? Traffic has stopped, the bus ought to get in line.

Arrogance? The only arrogance here is that of the KSRTC driver for not being sorry for his actions and just sitting there.

Public transport? Yea right, public transport on public road, the public driver needs to stop driving like it is his own bus through his dad's private property.
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Old 28th May 2024, 05:08   #928
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
You want everyone to road rage on a thread that teaches not to?

In this case, Thar driver is a Hero who stands for his rights for some and a road rager who is trying to escalate an easily diffusible situation.

As I mentioned before, I will not encourage my son to do this. Others who consider him a hero can share this video with their children and teach their kids how to stand for their rights.
IMHO the Thar driver didn't display road-rage, vigilantism or reckless driving. The driver slowed down and stood their ground in defence. The driver was well under the law in standing up to a bully.

It is entirely your choice if you don't want to be doing what the Thar driver did. I mean, suck it up, move to the left and keep driving. 9/10 times that's what happens, and the bully's behavior is normalized. It is entirely cool to do what you are comfortable with. However, it is not cool to accuse the Thar driver of displaying road-rage in this instance. You don't have any evidence to support your opinion.

P.S: Isn't it sad that people crib that the system is rotten, and yet question the motives of someone who stands up against the rotten system. You can't win.

Last edited by kiku007 : 28th May 2024 at 05:12.
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Old 28th May 2024, 07:49   #929
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
Now, coming to the other wrongs in this video:

1. On a non continuous line, the bus has all the right to attempt an overtake of an obstruction..
Please understand the definition of obstruction in its context. A moving vehicle on the road is not considered as an obstruction. If so, then the roads would be a free for all. If a part of the road is dug up or barracaded temporarily for some purpose, that can be called an obstruction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
3. In a police station, this dashcam car will have to pay for the damages if any. Like obstructing a govt employee from pursuing his duties etc.
So if I build a compound wall on my plot and a KSRTC bus crashes into it, I guess I could be put on trial for obstructing a govt employee from pursuing his duties. I hope you understand how flawed your arguement is. The laws are the same be it a KSRTC bus or a Bugatti Chiron. There is no law that says make way for any KSRTC bus that is on your path because people have to reach their destination on time.

Last edited by longhorn : 28th May 2024 at 07:51.
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Old 28th May 2024, 08:26   #930
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Re: Road Rage - Understanding, Avoidance and De-escalating Situation

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Originally Posted by praveesh4u View Post
Was the Thar driver right? Absolutely not.
  • He could have accommodated the overtake.
  • He shouldn't have driven towards the bus.
  • He shouldn't have blocked the traffic behind him, as he had plenty of space on the left.
I would have done exactly what you have suggested if I were driving that Thar. But this mentality of accommodating transgressions is what makes Indian roads what they are today. Yes, what the bus driver did was a transgression. He could clearly see vehicles coming in the opposite lane. What right does he then have to enter the opposite lane?

My driving school taught me to overtake only when thereís no oncoming vehicles. I overtake only when Iím sure I donít inconvenience oncoming vehicles (making them reduce speed, swerve to avoid a collision).

Kudos to the Thar driver for standing up to the transgressor.
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