[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by fighterace

I agree to your point about statistics and the resulting probabilities, but airbags are also the only safety devices which have killed people in situations which were perfectly survivable. Hence my concern. Also, we are a resource poor country. Given the emphasis being put on airbags, are we not neglecting certain more basic precautionary measures which will be more cost effective? And also, will an airbag in a weak bodyshell like the Alto's be a lifesaver or a killer?

As for the seatbelts, perhaps I went overboard. Being an engineer you will know better. It's just that the time taken for the mechanism to act, it's efficacy- and how it changes with age- bothers me. I had read somewhere that when buying a used car see how fast the belts snap back on release- a loose retraction shows long use. So does the mechanism deteriorate with age? In that case we should service and replace them when needed.
.

Just about every safety device on a car is likely to fail and will kill somebody. People have become trapped in their seatbelt when cars drove in a canal and drowned. People have been rear ended because their car had ABS and the car behind them did not and ended up in hospital and suffered terrible whip lash for the rest of their lives. I can go on and on.

But as I said before you need to look at the statistics and see the big trends. You look at the exceptions and seem to base your conclusion on those. Not a very rational approach I hasten to say, but each to its own. If it makes you feel safer that's ok. For some feeling safer can be more importantly than actually finding yourself in a situation where statistically you are much, much better off.

Take the minute chance of an airbag not working or not working properly over not having an airbag at all immediately. No comparison. One is an exception, the other one has been proven tens of thousand times. Take you pick.

You can't really test retractable belts. The idea that you just jerk it, is simply no proof. I have never come across where the mechanism failed. But I'm sure there are, but those are the exceptions again. What is true for both the retractable and non retractable variant is that the belt itself tends to wear out over time. It just deteriorate. I have seen people promoting replacing the belts and the mechanism on cars that over 20-25 years just to make sure. To some extend that might make sense, although I will admit that I have never ever replaced them on any of my classic cars.

Jeroen

[jalsa777]

Originally Posted by fighterace

Then why did Hyundai put 5 Star NCAP safety stickers on their Indian cars?

Allow me to quote myself:
'I do not see an ethical dilemma in selling cars the way they do in India (referring to lack of safety features). '

See the highlighted part. I am only referring to the point you raised about not offering safety features in India that they offer on the same car in Europe being a display of unethical business. I argued that this business practice cannot be called unethical.

About Hyundai putting the safety sticker which they cannot meet, that IS unethical.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by fighterace

, but airbags are also the only safety devices which have killed people in situations which were perfectly survivable. Hence my concern.

Shouldn't the next affect of a device be taken? Unless you have statistics showing airbags kill more people they save?

As for the seatbelts, perhaps I went overboard. Being an engineer you will know better. It's just that the time taken for the mechanism to act, it's efficacy- and how it changes with age- bothers me. I had read somewhere that when buying a used car see how fast the belts snap back on release- a loose retraction shows long use. So does the mechanism deteriorate with age? In that case we should service and replace them when needed.

The retraction mechanism deteriorates over time. So you have to kind of push back seat belts in older cars. But pull the seatbelt suddenly, and it will tighten.

Then why did Hyundai put 5 Star NCAP safety stickers on their Indian cars?

Its untethical to put that sticker on a car without airbags and ABS which did not get safety rating. Infact, if you go to court and claim Hyundai lied, and due to 5* rating you bought the car, you will get your money back.
Unless there is a fine print(only select variants) or something written on that sticker.

I agree partially. Airbags w/o seatbelts are a threat. However, the tree point seat belt predates the airbag by at least a decade, and is still considered to be the most important safety device introduced in automobiles. So while airbags need seatbelts to do their job, the converse is not true. In the US, hastily developed airbags have been proven to kill people- and I am afraid something similar may happen in India. Also, given our unique and varied climatic conditions, what are the chances of a Takata like situation happening here? And, answer honestly, what is the probability of it being redressed?

Before making a statement, you have to substantiate it with claims. For example, I can say, so many people have been killed due to defective hydraulic brakes, so we should not put such brakes on vehicles and save lives by just having a handbrake. IT would make slightly more sense than what you are saying.